.....
John8:40 does nothing more than agree with me. Jn17:3 does nothing more than hold you to a double-standard. And even, hypothetically, if John17:3 did "refute" Trinitarianism [which if you had read the link provided you would have found that it does not], how does this exclude preexistence? This is why I always like to discuss deity AFTER confirming Christ's preex. Otherwise tangent arguments result.
The one which best fits the context. I've gone into the context to demonstrate this. Have you? Another point to make is this; Why does the text state that the 'Word' was WITH God? Why does it state that it was "God"? The very Greek grammar is very indicative of a seperate personality.
Then you need to refute this understanding of mine in their individual contexts. You can't merely assert your position as refuting mine. You have to prove it from scripture.
Did you read what I responded with? It is not I who is contradicting scripture, Ed Pobre. Read the very scripture I provided in the above. It emphatically states that God is our "master". What do you think the word "serve" entails of the one being served? Notice how the entire point of Jesus' words in the above is that God is to be the master whom we serve. Now either "God" here is indicative of Christ, as He is our "only master", or the Father is also referred to as our "master". Simply look up the word "serve" in your concordance as it applies to YHWH. What does this tell us about the Father's position?
"Explaining" to you HOW they are "ONE" is not my job. Informing you of the FACT that they are, is.
You failed to respond to the passage provided in the above tied in with Rev11:15.
God bless you Edpobre--FM
John 8:40 and John 17:1,3 NEGATE your theory that "God could and did later BECOME a man."
John8:40 does nothing more than agree with me. Jn17:3 does nothing more than hold you to a double-standard. And even, hypothetically, if John17:3 did "refute" Trinitarianism [which if you had read the link provided you would have found that it does not], how does this exclude preexistence? This is why I always like to discuss deity AFTER confirming Christ's preex. Otherwise tangent arguments result.
FM states:
John1:14 - The 'Word' [theos vs1] became flesh [man]. God became man. This is *precisely* what the text is stating.
Edpobre replies:
That is ONLY your INTERPRETATION of what apostle John wrote. Apostle John ONLY wrote: "And the WORD became flesh." While it is true that earlier, apostle John wrote that the "WORD was God," my question is: "WHAT was the WORD of God that WAS God and BECAME flesh?
The one which best fits the context. I've gone into the context to demonstrate this. Have you? Another point to make is this; Why does the text state that the 'Word' was WITH God? Why does it state that it was "God"? The very Greek grammar is very indicative of a seperate personality.
FM states:
1.] I have hardly relied on a "single passage" of scripture. In fact I provided many in my previous post. See:
John1:1-4..cf..1John1:1-2, 5:11..cf..Rev19:13
Heb1:2..cf..Heb11:3..cf..Heb1:10-12
Eph3:9..cf..Col1:15-16
1Cor8:6 etc,. etc,.
2.] This is not merely a "Trintarian" interpretation in regards to Christ's preexistence. The JWs, SDAs, Mormons, etc, all hold that Christ preexisted prior to his birth in Bethlehem despite the fact that they are rabidly anti-Trinitarian.
Edpobre replies:
The verses you quoted do NOT explicitly say that Jesus PRE-EXISTED as God. It is ONLY your INTRERPRETATION that says he did PRE-EXIST as God.
Then you need to refute this understanding of mine in their individual contexts. You can't merely assert your position as refuting mine. You have to prove it from scripture.
FM states:
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ.
And this is evidently not to the exclusion of the Father. See:
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Edpobre replies:
Jesus SAYS "for ONE is your master, even the Christ." Why do you CONTRADICT what Jesus says? What proof can you show that what Jesus says does NOT exclude the Father?
Did you read what I responded with? It is not I who is contradicting scripture, Ed Pobre. Read the very scripture I provided in the above. It emphatically states that God is our "master". What do you think the word "serve" entails of the one being served? Notice how the entire point of Jesus' words in the above is that God is to be the master whom we serve. Now either "God" here is indicative of Christ, as He is our "only master", or the Father is also referred to as our "master". Simply look up the word "serve" in your concordance as it applies to YHWH. What does this tell us about the Father's position?
FM states:
You also have yet to negate such passages as Acts4:24 and Rev11:15 etc,. with any viable argument.
The reason that Christ or the Father can be the referred to as the "only" of something and yet not to the exclusion of the other is because together they are inexplainably ONE God.
Edpobre replies:
Why should I believe what you are saying when you CANNOT even EXPLAIN how the Son and the Father are ONE God? Have you been INSIDE the head of Christ that you know WHY, he said "ONLY" referring to him as the ONLY master and the Father as the ONLY true God?
"Explaining" to you HOW they are "ONE" is not my job. Informing you of the FACT that they are, is.
FM states:
So what of Acts4:24, a post-ascension passage? Remember Acts7. Christ is currently at the right hand of God IN heaven. See:
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, ALL authority hath been given unto me IN heaven AND on earth. [See Phil2:10-11..cf..Rom14:11]
And your interpretation contradicts other scripture whereas I am simply harmonizing.
Edpobre replies:
HARMONIZING does NOT result in CONTRADICTION FM and you know it. Jesus says ONE, you say TWO. Jesus says ONLY, you say ALSO. How can that be called HARMONIZING?
You failed to respond to the passage provided in the above tied in with Rev11:15.
God bless you Edpobre--FM
Upvote
0