Joel Osteen

[Nadiine]

I was in leadership in my last church (recently moved - need new church home). We were warned by the leaders of the church about Joel Osteen. Other leaders at the meeting had not nice things to say about his teaching.

So, I watched his broadcast (or part of it - got bored). I did not see him read from the Bible once only wave it around. I do not remember any quoting of Scripture from memory.

The main issue with him seems to be he does not teach the entire Gospel. He only focuses on the good things or blessings. He does not teach any warnings. I have heard others say he teaches from the "church of prosperity".

Of course he is popular if he only tells you about all the good things. But, that is deceptive to me. A leader needs to help their flock learn about the traps in life. How to deal with sin in their lives. About Hell and consequences.

He may be inspirational to listen to once in a while, but I would be leary of him being my main preacher. If he is not teaching the entire Bible, then to me he is a deceptive teacher.

This is just my opinion and the opinion of others I have talked too.

I am sorry you were not feeling well after you read my opinion. I hope you feel better now.

I did not imply that I had a great amount of knowledge regarding Mr. Olsteen. I merely stated my opinion on what I have heard from him directly on his program and others that have read his book that I know. I know of one person (I respect) that bought his book and actually threw it away after a couple of chapters.

I completely agree that the New Testament should be our main teacher. ALL the words not just selective ones that make people feel good.

I am not saying that everything he says is false. From the parts of his show I have seen, I can not think of anything that is false. I just worry that people that faithfully follow his teaching weekly will miss PART of the message in the New Testament.

He does not come across as strong in the Truth of the Bible that Jesus is the way to salvation. He says he believes the Bible but just can't say that those that do not believe that Jesus is their savior will not be saved. I agree with him that only God can judge. But, God gave us guidelines in the Bible that are very clear on certain issues. Jesus as the way to salvation is a clear point. He just kind of leaves it open for non-Christians.

I do worry about a teacher with so many followers that may get the impression that Jesus is not NECESSARY for salvation. He says I don't know a couple of times on this issue. A man in his position should know.

from cnn.com (Larry King Interview)

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Actually, I will watch his show again next time I come across it. I will count how many times he quotes scripture and how many times he opens that Bible he waves around. I will count how many times he warns his flock about sin and its consequences.

I have no problem with someone listening to him for encouragement now and again. My concern is for those who read or listen to nothing else and miss a big part of the Lords message to us.

I do not doubt he is inspirational. He was on the parts of his show I have seen. I would be fine with it if he were an inspirational speaker. But, I think a Pastor has more responsibility then an inspirational speaker.

Just my opinion . . .

This is for the OP & anyone that doesn't know about J Osteen's public interview w/ Larry King on CNN.
I strongly urge anyone who's supporting this man to read this & notice the STARTLING statements made (and lack of statements) that come from a "Christian evangelist".

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html​

*other links: what Osteen is charging when he travels to speak: (this is true, my husband saw his ticket sales in Calif. here just a few mos. ago and they were at $100 a ticket)
- disclaimer: I haven't thoroughly searched these sites - just these pages I got from the search engine.​

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/10/whats_that_you.html

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac29.htm​

But NewChild, an "encourager" is NOT A SHEPHERD! OR PASTOR. An encourager isn't an evangelist & shouldn't be pastoring & overseeing over a church.
He should then be an ASST. pastor, who brings that to people separately.
Pastor/shepherds give God's full counsel to members to spiritually feed them.
Encouraging & self esteem are not pastoral positions.

Then guess what, THEY DON'T WANT GOD! Let them GO then! Did Jesus ever change His message that offended the people so much just becuz they didn't wanna hear His verses?
Never.
When they attacked him for his truth, did he apologize & tell them he'll stop saying it? Stop quoting it? No.
If people are so repulsed by the Bible, then they do not want the Lord either. That's fine then. Those who come to church need to hear truth.. if that makes them leave, let them go.
There are TONS of churches that thrive (incl. the one I go to) that preach straight out of the bible, chapter by chapter in a whole study series... how is it we thrive & grow??

Watering down or not giving the entire truth leads people to being ignorant of truth. What happens when they DO find out God condemns people eternally? Or what sins God forbids etc.?
We don't change our message for people's comfort. We give the truth IN LOVE and kindness.

If you go back to around page 26-28 there were other statements made that had more substance & info.

I'll be interested to hear what he has to say on Fox news soon. He's still preaching the same messages, so I don't know what he'll change in this interview.

 

[IisJustMe]

If you go back to around page 26-28 there were other statements made that had more substance & info.

I'll be interested to hear what he has to say on Fox news soon. He's still preaching the same messages, so I don't know what he'll change in this interview.

Nothing, it will go just like it did on "60 Minutes" even down to the reporter pushing him for his take on the gospel. That's what amazed me, was that a CBS reporter knew enough about the Bible to press Joel on what he really believed. Of course, Joel managed to sidestep the questions. Maybe Fox will be a bit more persistent.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

This raises a key point - what is the gospel? That Christ came to die for our SIN **
SIN is in the gospel message. Christ came to lead us to repent and turn to Him instead. THat IS the gospel - he doesn't preach 1/2 of it becuz it's "negative".

I have every right and I believe, the DUTY to point this out as a Christian and why I take issue with his preaching.
He's better suited for motivational speaking than a Shepherd since he has so much trouble even admitting the entire gospel message when interviewed (which should be simple for a Shepherd/evangelist).

SIN is in the gospel message.

OUCH . . . I am going to point this out . . . and I know you know it . . . but for the sake of others so they dont get the wrong impression:

SIN must be seasoned by Grace . . . otherwise the message of the Cross is NOT completed.

SIN is a major factor in the equation . . . but Grace is NECESSARY outcome for redemption. Otherwise we just all stand condemned.

Like I said . . . I know you know this . . . but for the benefit of those reading . . .

pax

MTK

 

[Nadiine]

OUCH . . . I am going to point this out . . . and I know you know it . . . but for the sake of others so they dont get the wrong impression:

SIN must be seasoned by Grace . . . otherwise the message of the Cross is NOT completed.

SIN is a major factor in the equation . . . but Grace is NECESSARY outcome for redemption. Otherwise we just all stand condemned.

Like I said . . . I know you know this . . . but for the benefit of those reading . . .

pax

MTK

Yep I do know that - I have unsaved friends & I can assure you & anyone reading my posts that I do not talk to them like I talk in some of my posts... Supposedly I'm speaking to a majority of Christians here (at least they display the symbol that I have to respect as Christian for the sake of this forum's standards) - who do or should have some common agreement on basic doctrines & I don't talk to the unsaved like I talk in my posts so bluntly.

*also, the fact that Osteen refuses to BALANCE the gospel with "SIN", it makes us look bad when we have to FOCUS ON THE SIN ASPECTS. As we see with the way you recieved my post - HAVING TO POINT OUT GRACE.
USING ALL GRACE IS A DISSERVICE AS USING ALL SIN IS.

I shouldn't have to bring out the negative facts for any Pastor, it should be balanced by them... since they refuse, it's left to others to look "negative" due to their lack of responsibility w/ God's word.

Audience has alot to do with it, but I don't apologize for or neglect to relay the full gospel to the lost or saved.


*I've also seen some people preach to atheists using all sin & judgment messages which I've kindly pointed out to them that they lacked gentleness & grace.

 

[Cris413]

Here's Joel and Victoria on Hannity & Colmes back in October. Not one mention of Jesus.


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?102407/102407_hc_osteen&Hannity_Colmes&Joel%20%26%20Victoria%20Osteen&acc&US&-1&News&458&&&exp

If this is the only type of spiritual guidance and direction we can look forward to from the media in times of tragedy and devastation...all I can say is...



Don't worry if your home has been destroyed by wildfires...sometimes bad things happen to good people...don't get mad at each other...don't get mad at the government...don't get mad at God...God is good...just don't get negative...perservere with that positive energy and God will turn it into your advantage...

Great time to promo a new book though...

again I say...

 

[VCViking]

Here's the video and transcript from Fox News Sunday 12/23/07.


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?122307/122307_fns_osteen&FNS&Joel%20Osteen%20on%20%26%2392%3B%26%2339%3BFOX%20News%20Sunday%26%2392%3B%26%2339%3B&Joel%20Osteen%20on%20%26%2392%3B%26%2339%3BFOX%20News%20Sunday%26%2392%3B%26%2339%3B&US&-1&News&829&&&exp


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html


I don't know where to begin and I certainly do not have the time now.

I will say this. He is a nice guy but has no business being a pastor. He is unqualified. He is a stumbling block to millions. He is more concerned about how people feel than there eternal salvation. He is more concerned about how people feel now than how they will feel in eternal punishment.

He should be a counselor, not a pastor.

 

[djsterf]

Some observations:

(1) He got really nervous towards the end -- note how many times he says 'you know' toward the middle and end.
(2) He actually mentioned Jesus' death for once, praise God (see his last comment)
(3) I really pray that Osteen gets his focus on necessary faith issues (sin, repentance). Do you know how much God can use him as an evangelist? If not him, shoot, I'd love to go there and preach about sin & grace. I'm sure thousands of preachers would. I'm sure also that 47,000 wouldn't show up the next time...

Just keep praying for him. If he can help people, good, but if he can lead them to Jesus, YES!

 

[Zecryphon]

Some observations:

(1) He got really nervous towards the end -- note how many times he says 'you know' toward the middle and end.
(2) He actually mentioned Jesus' death for once, praise God (see his last comment)
(3) I really pray that Osteen gets his focus on necessary faith issues (sin, repentance). Do you know how much God can use him as an evangelist? If not him, shoot, I'd love to go there and preach about sin & grace. I'm sure thousands of preachers would. I'm sure also that 47,000 wouldn't show up the next time...

Just keep praying for him. If he can help people, good, but if he can lead them to Jesus, YES!

If Osteen starts talking about sin and repentance he will lose a great number of people in his church. There's very few people who can handle being told that they are a sinner. There's very few people that can handle being told THEY are the reason Jesus had to die on a cross. People think they're good and that God loves them because they are so good. Which has always made me ask the question: "If you're a good person, what do you need a savior for? What do you need to be saved from?"

 

[Cris413]

As much as we consider the lack of edification in watered down doctrine...

We should also consider all of those ears being plugged up to the truth...

...and our individual responsibility...

Php 2:1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy,
Php 2:2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

The Humbled and Exalted Christ
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Php 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Light Bearers
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,
Php 2:15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Php 2:16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
Php 2:17 Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.
Php 2:18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.

 

[Nadiine]

If Osteen starts talking about sin and repentance he will lose a great number of people in his church. There's very few people who can handle being told that they are a sinner. There's very few people that can handle being told THEY are the reason Jesus had to die on a cross. People think they're good and that God loves them because they are so good. Which has always made me ask the question: "If you're a good person, what do you need a savior for? What do you need to be saved from?"

Beeeeeeeeeeeeengo. Yepp.

I watched him on Fox News and one thing I found tragic were his comments on Mormonism regarding Mitt Romney running for pres. as a Mormon.
He said that as long as we claim Jesus Christ, that we have that commonality together... (paraphrasing) - in other words, Mormon's claim Christ's name too, who are we to divide with Mormons when we claim the same Christ.
That's a Shepherd of the flock??

Sorry, it was the same rehashed, tired message from before. & if it ain't broke, why fix it? He has over 50,000 in his congregation - the largest church there is.... why is he going to change his formula?

Zec you hit the nail on it - they WANT TO BE SPOONFED DESSERT that strokes their feathers & tells them how good they are & how God is there to bless & love them if they just hang in there long enough.

He said people already know what they're doing wrong - DO THEY?? He can't even decide if Mormonism is false!

 

[psalms 91]

Beeeeeeeeeeeeengo. Yepp.

I watched him on Fox News and one thing I found tragic were his comments on Mormonism regarding Mitt Romney running for pres. as a Mormon.
He said that as long as we claim Jesus Christ, that we have that commonality together... (paraphrasing) - in other words, Mormon's claim Christ's name too, who are we to divide with Mormons when we claim the same Christ.
That's a Shepherd of the flock??

Sorry, it was the same rehashed, tired message from before. & if it ain't broke, why fix it? He has over 50,000 in his congregation - the largest church there is.... why is he going to change his formula?

Zec you hit the nail on it - they WANT TO BE SPOONFED DESSERT that strokes their feathers & tells them how good they are & how God is there to bless & love them if they just hang in there long enough.

He said people already know what they're doing wrong - DO THEY?? He can't even decide if Mormonism is false!

Totyally agree, this is end times and many will not endure sound doctrine, and there will be seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and they are not all bad. The one thing that the devil wants is for Christians to be complacent and content but I also believe that there is a balance and there is a place for a good message as well.

 

[Zecryphon]

Beeeeeeeeeeeeengo. Yepp.

I watched him on Fox News and one thing I found tragic were his comments on Mormonism regarding Mitt Romney running for pres. as a Mormon.
He said that as long as we claim Jesus Christ, that we have that commonality together... (paraphrasing) - in other words, Mormon's claim Christ's name too, who are we to divide with Mormons when we claim the same Christ.
That's a Shepherd of the flock??

Sorry, it was the same rehashed, tired message from before. & if it ain't broke, why fix it? He has over 50,000 in his congregation - the largest church there is.... why is he going to change his formula?

Zec you hit the nail on it - they WANT TO BE SPOONFED DESSERT that strokes their feathers & tells them how good they are & how God is there to bless & love them if they just hang in there long enough.

He said people already know what they're doing wrong - DO THEY?? He can't even decide if Mormonism is false!

Obviously Joel doesn't know what the Mormons teach about Christ. It's not the same Christ that Christians worship. In the late 70's there was a PR campaign by the LDS church to attract new followers. They claimed that the Book of Mormon was another testament of Jesus Christ. This is blatantly false. Mormons today either choose for forget or simply don't know that Jospeh Smith was supposedly told by an angel that ALL churches were false and that he was to found the one true church, Mormonism. That means that Christianity was heretical and false as well. So why would the LDS, who should be knowledgable of this piece of history, try to claim to be Christian when the founder of their faith considered Christianity to be a false religion?

 

[Nadiine]

Here's the video and transcript from Fox News Sunday 12/23/07.


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/playe...OX News Sunday\'&US&-1&News&829&&&exp


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html


I don't know where to begin and I certainly do not have the time now.

I will say this. He is a nice guy but has no business being a pastor. He is unqualified. He is a stumbling block to millions. He is more concerned about how people feel than there eternal salvation. He is more concerned about how people feel now than how they will feel in eternal punishment.

He should be a counselor, not a pastor.

Yes exactly. He is NOT a Pastor. He's Tony Robbins - just sprinkling in some comments about God here and there.

In my most humble opinion, I'll tell you what i truly think - I honestly believe he's ashamed of the full gospel of Christ, becuz he cannot bring himself to even utter the entire message of salvation and our human condition - or that we MUST repent of sin... he can't even bear to utter those words. When those questions are asked of him, he looks like he's literally uncomfortable & squirming. He can EASILY breeze thru the "I'm gifted to encourage" shpeel... get him on sin, repentance or important doctrinal issues & watch him start sweating bullets. (I truly wonder if he could even PREACH a sermon on a doctrine using the bible!).
He prefers stories about his family & other people & pep talks instead.

Well, that's the people want -

 

[Nadiine]

Obviously Joel doesn't know what the Mormons teach about Christ. It's not the same Christ that Christians worship.

Which is why I continue to claim that HE IS NOT A SHEPHERD - dare I say that I believe that God has NOT called him to the Pastoral office.
He doesn't even know what unorthodox religions teach about Christ! With his mentality, we have to deduce that JW's are also fellow Christians - heck, for all I know, maybe he thinks Jim Jones & David Koresh were just trying to be good Christians too. They loved God, they just failed in their mission. :/

In the late 70's there was a PR campaign by the LDS church to attract new followers. They claimed that the Book of Mormon was another testament of Jesus Christ. This is blatantly false. Mormons today either choose for forget or simply don't know that Jospeh Smith was supposedly told by an angel that ALL churches were false and that he was to found the one true church, Mormonism. That means that Christianity was heretical and false as well. So why would the LDS, who should be knowledgable of this piece of history, try to claim to be Christian when the founder of their faith considered Christianity to be a false religion?

Very true, it's in all the documentation.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Obviously Joel doesn't know what the Mormons teach about Christ. It's not the same Christ that Christians worship. In the late 70's there was a PR campaign by the LDS church to attract new followers. They claimed that the Book of Mormon was another testament of Jesus Christ. This is blatantly false. Mormons today either choose for forget or simply don't know that Jospeh Smith was supposedly told by an angel that ALL churches were false and that he was to found the one true church, Mormonism. That means that Christianity was heretical and false as well. So why would the LDS, who should be knowledgable of this piece of history, try to claim to be Christian when the founder of their faith considered Christianity to be a false religion?

The biggest problem with Mormonism is it's proclivity to revisionism . . . they see revelation as still open and being revising in their views they have no problem with claiming error on behalf of their founders and in the doctrinal foundations of their theology . . . but claiming that current "prophets" (NOT in the Pentecostal/Charismatic sense of the term) have given NEW revelation that supercedes old revelation.

Hence you have polytheism and polygamy PREVALENT i the early days of Mormonism . . . but rare today and only by "fundamentalist" groups as defined by their own conservatives.

IOW, there are beliefs that raged in the beginning that are not even held among mainstream Mormons today . . .

 

[BustedFlat]

The Parable of the Mustard Seed

Mar 4:30 Then He said, "To what shall we liken the kingdom of God? Or with what parable shall we picture it?
Mar 4:31 It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth;
Mar 4:32 but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade."

Yesterday, our pastor taught on this passage. The common (and in my and his opinion WRONG) interpretation of this is that with a tiny bit of faith the church can grow so big that it surpasses all. The problem is that the birds Jesus had explained as being of Satan:

Mar 4:4 And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it.

Mar 4:15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Does it not seem there is parallels to Osteen's church? With just a little bit of truth you can create an abomination that allows sin to rest comfortably within? There is no need to weed your fields, no need to produce fruit, rest comfortable here with the ministers of Satan so that they can remove any part of the word you may have heard.

 

[Nadiine]

The Parable of the Mustard Seed

Mar 4:30 Then He said, "To what shall we liken the kingdom of God? Or with what parable shall we picture it?
Mar 4:31 It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth;
Mar 4:32 but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade."

Yesterday, our pastor taught on this passage. The common (and in my and his opinion WRONG) interpretation of this is that with a tiny bit of faith the church can grow so big that it surpasses all. The problem is that the birds Jesus had explained as being of Satan:

Mar 4:4 And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it.

Mar 4:15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Does it not seem there is parallels to Osteen's church? With just a little bit of truth you can create an abomination that allows sin to rest comfortably within? There is no need to weed your fields, no need to produce fruit, rest comfortable here with the ministers of Satan so that they can remove any part of the word you may have heard.

Hey, this sounds like the Parable of the sower & the soils from Matt. 13.

3And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, "Behold, the sower went out to sow;

4and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up.
5"Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.
6"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7"Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.
8"And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9"He who has ears, let him hear."
-------- parable explained:

19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

20"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
22"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23"And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

That post is a blessing, thanks for sharing.

 

[BustedFlat]

Same teaching. Mark is a little less PC about it.

 

[Nadiine]

The biggest problem with Mormonism is it's proclivity to revisionism . . . they see revelation as still open and being revising in their views they have no problem with claiming error on behalf of their founders and in the doctrinal foundations of their theology . . . but claiming that current "prophets" (NOT in the Pentecostal/Charismatic sense of the term) have given NEW revelation that supercedes old revelation.

Hence you have polytheism and polygamy PREVALENT i the early days of Mormonism . . . but rare today and only by "fundamentalist" groups as defined by their own conservatives.

IOW, there are beliefs that raged in the beginning that are not even held among mainstream Mormons today . . .

& don't forget RACISM. Blacks were viewed as a curse - cursed by God & were forbidden to hold any office in the church... that is until the civil rights movement when they were under heavy pressure-- and suddenly God changed His mind (conveniently) to let them hold office in the church & the whole 'curse' doctrines ended.

I always wonder if Joseph Smith was WRONG then, or if they're WRONG today in their 'new revelations' from God as they change?

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

& don't forget RACISM. Blacks were viewed as a curse - cursed by God & were forbidden to hold any office in the church... that is until the civil rights movement when they were under heavy pressure-- and suddenly God changed His mind (conveniently) to let them hold office in the church & the whole 'curse' doctrines ended.

I always wonder if Joseph Smith was WRONG then, or if they're WRONG today in their 'new revelations' from God as they change?

They are both wrong.