LOL Not hardly. Clarke did not agree with Alcasar.
This I agree with as do most all of the Christian commentators before Scofield and Darby's rapture nonsense, which by the way was started by another Jesuit by the name of Francisco Ribera.
No such phrase in the Bible as "second" coming. You might start with that. Just the plain old coming of the Lord.
What? The honest reading is right in the text. I am using scripture to interpret other scripture - but it is proving your interpretation wrong.
If Jesus's return to this earth from heaven, as is described in Revelation 19 as well, has been already fulfilled, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and there would be no wars, nor rumors of wars , because Jesus would be ruling the nations with a rod of iron to keep the wrong guys out of control.
I am not going to read your article, sorry. But I will discuss your views with you here.
Okay, lets start with that
Well I'm not re writing my article here just for you either.
No, not going there with you as you grab prophecies from all over the Bible and place them into the context of your dogma.
16. Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
The only promise made to them is that they would be saved from the judgment ancient Israel would suffer if they took heed to his prophecy. Not from persecution or anything else. Did promise a giant harvest of souls after that which certainly occurred in the next few hundred years.
The other trees would represent the nations of the end times in the end times prophecies.... such as the Gog/Magog nations in Ezekiel 38/39, having a common agenda to destroy Israel. Persia, in the text of Ezekiel 38 is easily identified as Iran.
I think this is where we may part ways.
16. Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
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Umm yeah...no. There are the 3 sets of scriptures Matthew first followed by Mark then Luke. The ones before the abomination and the ones after. Same exact order in all three. Same scene.But look at what you did, Daniel ! You took Luke 21:20-21 out of context to try and make it look like Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14 are the same as Luke 21:20-21.
From the article: The End Of An Age
*15. When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand
*14. But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:
*20. And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation of it is near. 21. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;.....
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In context , Daniel, in Luke 21, following the desolation of Jerusalem, the Jews are sent into exile among the nations. While in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14, there is no exile following the abomination of desolation. And guess what?
In both Matthew and Mark, following the abomination of desolation event, the Jews are not only not exiled to the nations - but the elect are gathered, not dispersed.
16. Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
Well I have no idea what you wanted a yes or no about. Most of the time yes and no questions are gotcha ones unfortunitly.
So far you are still in good standing with me and most of the Christian commentators both Calvinists and Arminian.No, not going there with you as you grab prophecies from all over the Bible and place them into the context of your dogma.
From the article: The End Of An Age
*15. When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand
*14. But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:
*20. And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation of it is near. 21. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;.....
One can see the importance of looking at all three accounts to get details that might not be mentioned in the others in these sentences. Jerusalem being surrounded by armies is not an interpretation of what Jesus said but something that Jesus said. Jesus apparently clarified at some point what the abomination that sets up desolation was Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. If you think about the practicality of Bible prophecy how could he not in his great mercy clarify it. How would most people know to flee Judea if he had just left it the way Matthew and Mark said it? Remember not every word that Christ spoke on this subject was recorded, only what the hearers inspirationally deemed important. (Inspirationally because it is the Word of God.) Luke and Mark were companions of the apostles who where eye witnesses of this discourse and Matthew was there himself. The writing or record keeping of events was the calling of the Jew and the apostles were keenly aware of this as part of their commission. All three of these accounts were written long before their occurrence, in other words decades. The only reason "scholars" dispute this has nothing to do with physical evidence but simply because to them real prophecy does not occur.
Perhaps because so many have not carefully looked at all three accounts many have thought that these verses were in reference to Daniel 8:13 and 11:31. This however is not possible. Daniel 8:13 and 11:31 were fulfilled exactly as prophesied by Antiochus Epiphanies just before Rome conquered the region. The context of the two verses in Daniel is the time period of Greece's Empire that was divided into four realms. What is spoken of in Daniel 8 then 11 regarding these two verses are listed in order under the heading of the Greek empire by an angel making it impossible to mean any other than Antiochus Epiphanies. The details of this can be seen here and here. Instead, Jesus is again referencing Daniel 9:26. And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that makes desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate. -- American Standard. The abominations spoken of were the gods of the Romans that were carried on the standards of their army. Jesus said in all three accounts when they saw this; to flee to the mountains. Without going into great detail on how the war began: Under the Roman Emperor Nero, Cestius led the Army to conquer Judea. Jerusalem was surrounded and without much of a battle was days from being easily taken. The vast majority of the people and rulers were ready to open the gates to the Romans and hail them as deliverers. The ones who were leading the revolt were fleeing Jerusalem undercover of darkness. The loss of life would have been small in comparison to what was coming but without any reason that anyone could figure out. Probably just as the false prophets were prophesying. Cestius heard a rumor, left the siege and marched out of Judea. The rebels followed and harassed his army to the point were Cestius left all his equipment and marched out of Judea by night. See Josephus' account. This was considered a great victory and undoubtedly a fulfillment of the words of the false prophets. It must have been looked upon as an event of Biblical proportions by those who were deceived. At that point those who considered Christ's prophecy recorded in this chapter did as he had instructed them and fled. Nero then sent Vespasian to conquer the region, but during Vespasian's campaign Nero died. Three generals attempted to take the title of Emperor for themselves, but Vespasian conquered the throne and left his son Titus to finish the campaign. It was Titus who took and razed Jerusalem.
That is the problem. You cannot accept the Bibles own interpretation of its own prophecies nor the dates it places on their fulfillment once you have accepted a doctrine of a "2nd" advent. It's extra Biblical. The coming of the day of the Lord is not a doctrine of a 2nd advent. It is a doctrine of the times and seasons that God sets to judge nations, or in the case of the flood the whole world and to fulfill promises. There are at least a dozen of them in scripture prophesied. Most with the record of their fulfillment in scripture. The record of the New Testament days of the Lord when he comes to judge and fulfill promises do not have a record of fulfillment since the NT was written before hand. But thankfully they do have the dates attached to the at least two of these great judgments that were to come upon the earth. The end of the Old covenant age and the the end of the age of the four gentile empires. But once you accept this extra Biblical doctrine of a "second" coming or "advent" it hoses everything up for the Bible student. Because all this stuff is the end of the world which has not happened. Does it really matter? Yeah! Because no one is focusing on the prophecies about this age. The one that was to follow the age of the four gentile empires.
I think that the question was answered in these verses right here.Are you aware that Jesus told many of the people he was speaking to, including he apostle John, that they would live long enough to see the coming of the Lord? Here Matthew, Mark and Luke all record the same scene when Jesus tells a group of his disciples that some of them will live long enough to see his coming.
Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mark 8:38 Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And he said to them, Truly I say to you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luke 9:26 For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Here Jesus tells John that he will live long enough to see his coming but tells Peter he will not.
John 21:18. (Jesus speaking to Peter) Truly, Truly, I say to you, When you were young, you dressed yourself, and walked where ever you desired: but when your old, you will stretch forth your hands, and another will dress you, and carry you where you do not want. 19. This he spoke, signifying by what death he (Peter) should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he said to him, Follow me. 20. Then Peter, turning around, seeing the disciple whom Jesus loved (John) following;...... 21. Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22. Jesus answers him, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? Follow me. 23. Then this saying abroad went out among the brothers, that this disciple (John) should not die: yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?
Then Jesus tells the High Priest and the other religious leaders of Israel that some of them would live long enough to see his coming.
Mark 14:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62. And Jesus said, I am: and you will see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Then of course there Jesus's prophecy about the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. It is very important to note that the only place in his whole prophecy that he used the emphasis "truly truly I say to you" to command their attention, and ours was concerning when this prophecy would come to pass.
Matthew 24:32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is close: 33. So likewise, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34. In truth I say to you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13:28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near: 29. So in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that it is close, even at the doors. 30. In truth I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Luke 21:29. And he spoke to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30. When they now shoot forth, you see and know of your own selves that summer is now close at hand. 31. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is close at hand. 32. In truth I say to you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
This is all in exact accordance with Daniels prophecy that when the messiah comes the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. In fact the destruction of the temple and the city was one of the major signs, like his death and resurrection that Jesus was indeed the messiah.
Daniel chapter 9 verses 25-27. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
So why do so many Christians and pastors not pay any attention to all these scriptures that say when Jesus would come and instead place it in our future? I think mostly because they have no incentive to notice them. They accepted a teaching called the "second coming" as gospel long before they became familiar enough with the scripture to observe anything contrary to it. The Greek word for second doesn't even occur one time in the same sentence in the entire New Testament with the Greek word for "coming." The acceptance of these pop culture end time teachings has quite naturally caused a spiritual and intellectual laziness around the subject of the coming of the Lord. The scripture is replete with these great days of judgment where the Lord literally and physically came to earth to oversee great days of judgment or calamity. This isn't the only one the New Testament prophesied either. There are a dozen chapters of end time prophecy about the great judgments and end of the age of the four Gentile empires in the book of Revelation. Every single sentence of Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 came to pass in the first century. I had the incentive and the calling to find out just exactly how. Especially with the seemingly difficult verses.
If this stirs anyone's curiosity you can read the article here. I am currently advertising it on Facebook. You'll not find a more complete account in a more easy to read format. Otherwise argue away.
The End Of An Age
