Jesus' Primary Purpose

[RDKirk]

Ow?
So Jesus is out to save me from myself?
What does that even mean?

What would I do to myself if Jesus doesn't save me from myself?
I'm confused, because I have no plans to hurt myself, nore did I hurt myself in the past.
I'm actually quite happy and healthy.

Nearly everyone says that, and yet nearly everyone practices self-harmful behaviors of one kind or another.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Good question and needs to go down to the very basic.
What does it mean by bring SAVED in Christianity?

Yes, that is basically what I asked you.

Are you planning on answering it, or are you just going to reformulate my question and leave it at that?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nearly everyone says that, and yet nearly everyone practices self-harmful behaviors of one kind or another.

Great.

You didn't answer my question(s).

So Jesus is out to save me from myself?
What does that even mean?
What would I do to myself if Jesus doesn't save me from myself?

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

Is to be worshipped?
Forgive sins of humanity?
Serve as an example?

Of course many would say all three but I'm asking for you to choose the main function or role..

Because depending on the church it seems one of these will be emphasized over the other..

You're going to hear what you didn't want to, but the comprehensive answer is the right answer. All three of those roles are connected, and thus it is no surprise you will see them emphasized at different times. Jesus' role begins with the forgiveness of sins, but the forgiveness of sins is accomplished only for those who accept the salvation and Lordship of Christ. If one has sincerely accepted Christ (which will be determined by the claim matching the life, i.e., if Jesus is actually your Lord you will actually obey Him, Luke 6:46) then they have received the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will bring us to worship God because He is the same Spirit who filled Christ in His humanity: "The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father (Romans 8:15)."

Since worship is to give all our heart, soul, strength and mind to God (Matthew 22:36-38), it is impossible to worship God and not have our actions, thoughts and attitudes reflect it. Since we ought to live a certain way, Christ, who was perfectly obedient, is an example to us as to how we are to live in every way. This is why the Scripture says: "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did (1 John 2:3-6)."

So the roles are inextricably connected; you can not have one without the other. Therefore the only way in which any of them is primary is the order in which they are effectuated.

Great.

You didn't answer my question(s).

So Jesus is out to save me from myself?
What does that even mean?
What would I do to myself if Jesus doesn't save me from myself?

Jesus would be saving you from self-inflicted condemnation, the worst kind of self-harm. By choosing to live separately from the very source of all life, truth, goodness, joy and all provision you will receive the conscious existence of the absence of all such things, which is an incommensurate threat to your existence. You could attempt to retort that it is not self-inflicted because by some definition you didn't choose to be damned, but you would have chosen a path that inevitably ends at that destination. You have freedom of choice, not freedom from consequence. Just as the criminal is responsible when they live unlawfully and are jailed, and the lazy glutton is responsible when their body prematurely fails because they abandoned healthy living, so the godless will receive a result that corresponds to their desires.

Since God is the Creator and provider of every thing that constitutes the knowable, the good, the pleasant, and every good thing you've ever enjoyed (everything He provides from food to social satisfaction to sexual intimacy and everything between), the removal of God from your conscious being entails the removal of all those things. To expect the contrary would put you in the awkward position of being like a woman who asks a man she finds physically attractive and wealthy to remain present with her exclusively so that she can look upon upon him and spend his wealth at leisure, but demands that he otherwise behave as though soulless and never demand relationship or returned love. No man with any dignity would ever accept such a thing, and God, being infinitely more worthy so as to be worthy of worship, will not accept it either.

To put it as plainly as the Scripture does, give yourself to God to honour Him and enjoy Him forever, or go where neither He nor anything He has provided is present, as you requested in every waking moment of the rejection your life constitutes. As has been said, there is no good and pleasant thing you've ever enjoyed that wasn't from God's mind. If this world can have such pleasantries as God has provided in this finite existence, it can not even be imagined, nor has any eye seen or ear heard what God has prepared for those who love Him (1 Corinthians 2:9).

 

[zippy2006]

Okay. You agree with the above poster that his primary role is that of a Savior.

I think that's right.

"For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him" (John 3:17).

 

[Sojourner1]

Is to be worshipped?
Forgive sins of humanity?
Serve as an example?

Of course many would say all three but I'm asking for you to choose the main function or role..

Because depending on the church it seems one of these will be emphasized over the other..

Jesus came to do the will of His Father, He came to give us eternal life, to give us freedom from the consequences of sin, sin which separated us from God and brought spiritual death.

John 6:38-40
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 17:1-5
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

 

[DingDing]

Jesus' Primary Purpose
Is to be worshipped?
Forgive sins of humanity?
Serve as an example?

Of course many would say all three but I'm asking for you to choose the main function or role..

Because depending on the church it seems one of these will be emphasized over the other..

Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us.

 

[juvenissun]

Usually when we think of solving a problem... we think of the problem no longer existing afterwards. How do you reason to solve something but leaving the problem to remain in existence? I will admit this is confusing. Do you think another term/phrase would be better used to describe what you're referencing? How do you address something and it still remains? In most situations someone who comes in and says they will solve a problem and the problem remains has exhibited failure to do what they claim.

I suggested that the problem of sin will exist forever, it is impossible to eliminate it.
So the problem should be changed to: The problem of sin to God. Before Jesus, this problem is not completely solved. After Jesus, it is solved.

This is a very common misconception to non-Christians. Some of them want to solve the problem of sin, so EVERYONE is saved. As I suggested, that is impossible and is not the plan of God.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes, that is basically what I asked you.

Are you planning on answering it, or are you just going to reformulate my question and leave it at that?

A Christian is SAVED, means that he will see God after his physical death.

Very simple.

 

[Khalliqa]

I suggested that the problem of sin will exist forever, it is impossible to eliminate it.
So the problem should be changed to: The problem of sin to God. Before Jesus, this problem is not completely solved. After Jesus, it is solved.

This is a very common misconception to non-Christians. Some of them want to solve the problem of sin, so EVERYONE is saved. As I suggested, that is impossible and is not the plan of God.

I'm sorry can you explain in the most basic childlike way .. I'm literally asking you to talk to me like I'm a child.. and explain what you mean by change the problem of sin to God? And can you explain what "solve" means to a Christian?

 

[juvenissun]

I'm sorry can you explain in the most basic childlike way .. I'm literally asking you to talk to me like I'm a child.. and explain what you mean by change the problem of sin to God? And can you explain what "solve" means to a Christian?

For example, an flood at a remote city IS a problem, but it is not a problem to me (i.e. that is not my problem,). A sinful person IS a problem, but if this person does not see God face to face, than it is NOT a problem to God.

The problem to God is: how to make a sinful person to see God face to face. God wants to solve that problem. Jesus solves that problem.

 

[miknik5]

Usually when we think of solving a problem... we think of the problem no longer existing afterwards. How do you reason to solve something but leaving the problem to remain in existence? I will admit this is confusing. Do you think another term/phrase would be better used to describe what you're referencing? How do you address something and it still remains? In most situations someone who comes in and says they will solve a problem and the problem remains has exhibited failure to do what they claim.

So that we will continue to walk by faith in HIM with our HOPE in HIM

Why are you quoting me? You don't come across as someone who considers anyone's thoughts if they are outside of your belief system. Your posts exhibit someone who has a need to proselytize irrespective of the topic. That's all. This is the last I will address you.. Have at it..

Probably because I didn't like your post about the woman on the train

 

[miknik5]

Disregard me

 

[dcalling]

Great.

You didn't answer my question(s).

So Jesus is out to save me from myself?
What does that even mean?
What would I do to myself if Jesus doesn't save me from myself?

You by yourself will die in your sin. I should change that to we by ourselves will die in sin. There is no way for us to shake off our sins.

Just look at what God demand of us:
no murder (but if you hate your brother, that is murder)
no adultery (but if you look at someone lustfully it is adultery)
don't covet (can you ever not envy others)

And the only way you can be saved is by the grace of God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Jesus would be saving you from self-inflicted condemnation

What does that mean? What is "self-inflicted condemnation", exactly?

By choosing to live separately from the very source of all life, truth, goodness, joy and all provision you will receive the conscious existence of the absence of all such things, which is an incommensurate threat to your existence.

I didn't "choose" that any more then I "choose" not to believe in santa claus.

You could attempt to retort that it is not self-inflicted because by some definition you didn't choose to be damned, but you would have chosen a path that inevitably ends at that destination.

Again, no. This is not a matter of "choice". I don't "choose" my beliefs.

You have freedom of choice, not freedom from consequence. Just as the criminal is responsible when they live unlawfully and are jailed, and the lazy glutton is responsible when their body prematurely fails because they abandoned healthy living, so the godless will receive a result that corresponds to their desires.

The difference is that a criminal is punished for actions. Not for beliefs.

Since God is the Creator and provider of every thing that constitutes the knowable, the good, the pleasant, and every good thing you've ever enjoyed (everything He provides from food to social satisfaction to sexual intimacy and everything between), the removal of God from your conscious being entails the removal of all those things.

That's just your religious belief.

To expect the contrary would put you in the awkward position of being like a woman who asks a man she finds physically attractive and wealthy to remain present with her exclusively so that she can look upon upon him and spend his wealth at leisure, but demands that he otherwise behave as though soulless and never demand relationship or returned love. No man with any dignity would ever accept such a thing, and God, being infinitely more worthy so as to be worthy of worship, will not accept it either.

The difference is that men and women demonstrably exist.

To put it as plainly as the Scripture does, give yourself to God to honour Him and enjoy Him forever, or go where neither He nor anything He has provided is present, as you requested in every waking moment of the rejection your life constitutes.

I haven't requested anything

As has been said, there is no good and pleasant thing you've ever enjoyed that wasn't from God's mind

Or so your religious beliefs claim.


The mafia boss analogy comes to mind.

When someone holds a gun to my head and demands me paying him for "protection", then I did not commit suicide when I refuse and get shot as a result.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A Christian is SAVED, means that he will see God after his physical death.

Very simple.

"saved" from what / whom? And for what?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You by yourself will die in your sin.

We all die.
And what "sin" would that be?
You don't know me or anything about me. How would you know?

There is no way for us to shake off our sins.

Why not?
And what "sins"?

Just look at what God demand of us:
no murder (but if you hate your brother, that is murder)
no adultery (but if you look at someone lustfully it is adultery)
don't covet (can you ever not envy others)

Assuming this god created us, then he himself build it into our nature to look at people lustfully and with a tendency to envy others. That is just instinctive human nature.

In other words, if we act like that, then all we are doing is just acting the way he created us to act.

So in conclusion, the fact that we engage in such behaviour would therefor be 110% his very own responsability.

If I train a dog to kill everyone that wears a red t-shirt, to the point where the dog just can't help himself and goes beserk on anyone with such a t-shirt... Then who's really responsible for that behaviour? Me or the dog?

Is it fair to then punish the dog when he kills someone with a red t-shirt?

And the only way you can be saved is by the grace of God.

As Christopher Hitchins so famously said "Created sick and commanded to be well".
Typical snake-oil salesman tactics.

First, convince people that there is something wrong with them.
Next, conveniently provide the one and only cure.

 

[juvenissun]

"saved" from what / whom? And for what?

Saved from not able to see God.

You should figure that out by yourself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Saved from not able to see God.

You should figure that out by yourself.

I'm just going to assume that you are unwilling to answer the question in a straightforward manner.

 

[miknik5]

HIS coming will be very, very....bright, @TagliatelliMonster

HE is a consuming fire
What is perishable will perish