Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

[Christownsme]

God has one condition, to accept the sacrifice of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, and to believe on His name. Inside this safe place of refuge, God has set our feet in a spacious place and we experience his unconditional love. Outside of this condition, the wrath of God abides on a person.

 

[ozell]

groktruth;55835766]We are hoping here, to be speaking the truth in love, so that all can be edified, built up. As followers of Jesus, we hope to be effective members of His church, or body, prayerfully coming against the gates of Hell. We, of course, cannot succeed in this without His help, because it is something, and we can do nothing without Him.

is hope a condition?

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

So, is He helping? He warns us that there is a condition on His helping. If we do receive the love of the truth, instead of helping us, He will delude us.

a condition!

"And this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." We are commanded, as regards truth, to "be diligent to show ourselves approved, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

a condition!

"Confusion" means "fused with." It is from the devil, not God, and it happens when the meaning of two different words are fused together. In this case, we have salvation and love being fused together in meaning.

will the love of God bring forth salvation?
will the rejection of God love bring about salvation?

the people who did not make on the ark what happen to their salvation and God's love when the flood came?

So, to restore God's helping us, let us rightly divide the meaning of these two words of truth.

He defines love as already stated. It is keeping commandments. But what is salvation? It is the end of a problem, present or threatened.

what was the end of the people in the flood or the people of Sodom and Gomorrah?

All seem agreed that salvation is conditional. We do not escape problems unless we meet God's conditions.

Does this mean that God's love is conditional? Only if we have reason to believe that His love is proportional to His salvation. I personally have neither prophetic nor scriptural reason to believe this, but perhaps someone else has heard God speak to this issue, or knows a scripture that would affirm such a thought.

here is one of many that I repeatedly put

Heb 3v9: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10: Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11: So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Jesus rest is his 1000 year rule when he return, yet the Lord said these people WILL NOT ENTER INTO HIS REST.

Do the people hear understand what the Lord just said to these people?

hear is another verse to consider

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

look what God did to these people

lets continue to read what is not convenient for these people to do that God gave them over to

29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The problem I hope He will help us with, is to help us see His ways of viewing our lives, in contrast to our own ways. We, of course, being often carnal, think of eating and drinking and breathing as our life, but He stresses our freedom and responsibility. When our eating, etc is destroyed, we feel unloved, even when that destruction is honoring our choices and responsibility. So, God sees this destruction as loving us, as fulfilling our freedom of choice.

He, of course, hopes that we will make different choices, and is grieved when we reject His wisdom and ways. That is love, too. But He will not let that grief on His part become a weapon in our hands by which we can force Him to yield to our opinions and ways.

here is the choice we have its only one choice if you love Jesus

Mt 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

Mt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Mt 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

So, there's my effort at peacemaking, and increasing understanding. It is written that the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. And, understanding, according to Jesus, is critical if the seed sown is not to be eaten up by the birds of the air. It is clear in scripture that failing to rightly divide words of truth will make edifying converation impossible

.

what is righteousness according to the word of God?

lets divide this word according to the word of truth?

 

[razzelflabben]

God has one condition, to accept the sacrifice of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, and to believe on His name. Inside this safe place of refuge, God has set our feet in a spacious place and we experience his unconditional love. Outside of this condition, the wrath of God abides on a person.

a wrath that is compelled by love....let me offer you a couple more verses, the others offered were ignored, see about these, and what these say about the character and love of God.

Jeremiah 7:16-19
16 "So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the LORD. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

Jeremiah 32:26-35
30 "The people of Israel and Judah have done nothing but evil in my sight from their youth; indeed, the people of Israel have done nothing but provoke me with what their hands have made, declares the LORD. 31 From the day it was built until now, this city has so aroused my anger and wrath that I must remove it from my sight. 32 The people of Israel and Judah have provoked me by all the evil they have done—they, their kings and officials, their priests and prophets, the men of Judah and the people of Jerusalem. 33 They turned their backs to me and not their faces; though I taught them again and again, they would not listen or respond to discipline. 34 They set up their abominable idols in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. 35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters [c] to Molech, though I never commanded, nor did it enter my mind, that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

My point is this, God does get angry, He judges, He punishes, etc. which are all part of love. When we apply these passages to our understanding, that love is more observable yet.

 

[Christownsme]

Razzelflabben,

I agree with you 100%. I'm with you on these posts, and yes, God's wrath is geared toward repentance of an individual so that the great unconditional love of God within a saved person's life can be seen and experienced. So if God loves the whole world that He gave His only begotten son, then indeed his love is supreme and complete and unconditional. But the choice to recieve salvation, and therefore see this unconditional love, has a condition I think we can all agree with: We must believe on the Messiah Jesus Christ, whose Spirit convicts us of sin and proclaims forgiveness to the believing sinner.

Pre saved: God loves thru offering the forgiveness of sin thru His Son Jesus Christ. Unconditional love. Jesus paid the full penalty before we believed. Thus, unconditional love. However, the loving wrath of God abides on this person as long as he refuses Christ. All the person can see is vengeful wrath. That's where the work of the Holy Spirit comes in.

Post saved: God continues to love unconditionally, to assure us our eternal inheritance is guaranteed by the pledge and seal of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ozell]

I agree with you 100%. I'm with you on these posts, and yes, God's wrath is geared toward repentance of an individual so that the great unconditional love of God within a saved person's life can be seen and experienced. So if God loves the whole world that He gave His only begotten son, then indeed his love is supreme and complete and unconditional. But the choice to recieve salvation, and therefore see this unconditional love, has a condition I think we can all agree with: We must believe on the Messiah Jesus Christ, whose Spirit convicts us of sin and proclaims forgiveness to the believing sinner.

why do you use the word BUT? the God of unconditional love loves everyone, the word but is not in his vocabulary.

some people don't believe in Jesus
some people have faith in other God's

Pre saved: God loves thru offering the forgiveness of sin thru His Son Jesus Christ. Unconditional love. Jesus paid the full penalty before we believed. Thus, unconditional love. However, the loving wrath of God abides on this person as long as he refuses Christ. All the person can see is vengeful wrath. That's where the work of the Holy Spirit comes in.

where is pre saved in the bible? Is this a new doctrine?

Post saved: God continues to love unconditionally, to assure us our eternal inheritance is guaranteed by the pledge and seal of the Holy Spirit

where is post saved in the bible? is this a new doctrine?

 

[ozell]

1Cor 13v

1: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2: And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

the condition!

3: And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

the condition!

4: Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

conditions!

5: Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6: Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7: Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

conditions

13: And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[ozell]

The bible definiton of Love is

Rom 13:
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

How do we love?

Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet

 

[ozell]

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

what is the bible definition of Love?

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

for the fulfilling of the Law is of God

The conditions is IF we love one another!!

1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

what is Jesus Love that is perfected in us?

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

who commandments? Jesus

whose Love? Jesus Love!!!

 

[ozell]

How do I know you love me or our fellow brethren?

you will not do these things to me or your fellow brethren.


Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet


This is Godly love!

 

[ozell]

Prov 8v12: I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

13: The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

14: Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15: By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16: By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

God's love is conditional!!!

17: I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

 

[groktruth]

not following the end of this, the beginning is awesome, but you loose me in the last sentence of the first paragraph. Help please...

Oops, I left off the not in the sentence about receiving the love of the truth. The scriptural warning is that those who do not receive the love of the truth are subject to delusion from God. Which they may not see as help.

Now, the rest of your post is most interesting. Seeing "truth" as more of a thing than a person, I supposed that receiving the love of the truth meant that love by man must take up truth as an object. That is, we must choose to love "the way of truth" of Psalm 119, or face being deluded by God.

Then the idea that "love" is a choice and action to "play by the rules" ("keeping the commandments") meant that we are called by the scriptures to be about the business of learning, keeping, the commandments that pertain to the truth. Such as the command to "rightly divide" words of truth. If we take such commands seriously, we are loving the truth, and can hope that God will help us do the right thing.

The idea that the "love of the truth" is the love of God Himself for us, which we must "receive" which is what I understand you are saying, also is confirmed in scripture, say in the Hebrew's passage about seeking God ("Must believe that He is, and that He rewards those who seek Him.") When I ask God, He says both are true, the first for those who do not know God at all, but sincerely want the truth, the second for those know that they can seek God instead of trusting their own understanding. Loving the truth, that is, knowing the rules God has written down for us for finding truth (Buy the truth, etc. Rightly divide...) is a prerequisite in the last days for not being deluded. But, accepting that God is always fundamentally on our side, and will help us if we seek Him is also critical.

 

[ozell]

who in the world did the Lord love?



Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Heb 10v1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

those sanctified by his blood!!!

 

[razzelflabben]

Oops, I left off the not in the sentence about receiving the love of the truth. The scriptural warning is that those who do not receive the love of the truth are subject to delusion from God. Which they may not see as help.

Now, the rest of your post is most interesting. Seeing "truth" as more of a thing than a person, I supposed that receiving the love of the truth meant that love by man must take up truth as an object. That is, we must choose to love "the way of truth" of Psalm 119, or face being deluded by God.

Then the idea that "love" is a choice and action to "play by the rules" ("keeping the commandments") meant that we are called by the scriptures to be about the business of learning, keeping, the commandments that pertain to the truth. Such as the command to "rightly divide" words of truth. If we take such commands seriously, we are loving the truth, and can hope that God will help us do the right thing.

The idea that the "love of the truth" is the love of God Himself for us, which we must "receive" which is what I understand you are saying, also is confirmed in scripture, say in the Hebrew's passage about seeking God ("Must believe that He is, and that He rewards those who seek Him.") When I ask God, He says both are true, the first for those who do not know God at all, but sincerely want the truth, the second for those know that they can seek God instead of trusting their own understanding. Loving the truth, that is, knowing the rules God has written down for us for finding truth (Buy the truth, etc. Rightly divide...) is a prerequisite in the last days for not being deluded. But, accepting that God is always fundamentally on our side, and will help us if we seek Him is also critical.

I have been in deep study of biblical love for about 3 years now. As such, one consistent (I find many, but that is a different story) I find, is that people only see love as one way, in reality, Love flows from God to man. Love flows from man to God. And Love flows from man to other men. When we speak of love, we must keep in mind that it flows more than one direction and each direction though identical in nature, have different markers that identify it as love in our eyes.

Well, mostly I just wanted to say thanks for the explanation. It's awesome when someone explains rather than tries to avoid explanation so they can blame others down the road. Bravo! again, thanks.

 

[ozell]

Matthew 25:30-32

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

the righteous

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

the Wicked

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Blessed be the God of conditional love!!

 

[ozell]

the Wicked

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Blessed be the God of conditional love!!

The God who loves everyone would not put people he love in the lake of fire which was created for Satan and his angels!

if God loves everyone and his love is conditional why did he kick Satan and 1/3 of the angels out of heaven and prepare a place for them to suffer forever!!!

 

[razzelflabben]

Matthew 25:30-32

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

the righteous

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

the Wicked

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Blessed be the God of conditional love!!

still you are confusing Love with salvation...they are not the same thing, as you have been shown many times over now. And instead of arguing how they might be the same, you just keep asserting you are right because, and then post the same misused passage once again.

 

[razzelflabben]

the Wicked

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Blessed be the God of conditional love!!

The God who loves everyone would not put people he love in the lake of fire which was created for Satan and his angels!

if God loves everyone and his love is conditional why did he kick Satan and 1/3 of the angels out of heaven and prepare a place for them to suffer forever!!!

because of their sin....but what does that have to do with love. Judgment is not opposed to love, it is part of it.

 

[groktruth]

I have been in deep study of biblical love for about 3 years now. As such, one consistent (I find many, but that is a different story) I find, is that people only see love as one way, in reality, Love flows from God to man. Love flows from man to God. And Love flows from man to other men. When we speak of love, we must keep in mind that it flows more than one direction and each direction though identical in nature, have different markers that identify it as love in our eyes.

Well, mostly I just wanted to say thanks for the explanation. It's awesome when someone explains rather than tries to avoid explanation so they can blame others down the road. Bravo! again, thanks.

Are you posting this "different story" anywhere? The principal of my public high school, Garland Quarles, made us memorize and recite privately before him 1 Corinth 13. Then, about the same time, E.T Clark told me that the truth would set me free. That was 1959. Been focused on truth and love ever since. These "conditions" on abiding, I have found, are the key to prevailing prayer, itself the key to "accomplishing much."

But it is repentance that blesses God, our greatest act of love for Him.

In these perilous times, it's good to know that kindred spirits are to be found.

Stephen

 

[Christownsme]

I think it all has to do with conditions on "what" we're talking about. We can be talking about conditions for blessings, salvation, or God's love. God's love is so much more than what you've given God credit for, Ozell. God's unconditional love is supreme over and includes salvation and blessings. You're mixing blessing and salvation conditions and calling them conditions of God's love. He loves with such a magnificent love, even the person not meeting YOUR so called conditions for God's love have experienced God's unconditional love.

Conditions for blessings include, for one, following the 10 commandments. Obedience, humility, and putting God first bring about blessings.

Conditions for salvation is to believe on Jesus Christ as savior and recieve forgiveness and justification for our lives. By this condition you shall know salvation.

Conditions for God's love is like there is conditions for His grace. Grace is something we can't earn or deserve because God pours out love without measure, to having sent His Son to save us before we knew Him, to keeping us with Him while we are saved. We can stumble in obedience and miss blessings, thru condition. God's love doesn't stop. He is Love.

Punishment is a part of the unconditional love of God, too. Think outside the box if you can, Ozell. Because God is way outside the box. My guess is that you are in a tough fight against the principalities and powers - Satan doesn't want you to know your Father's love. Because I'll guarantee you haven't met the conditions you've written out and believe. Therefore you've fallen from grace if you don't accept grace and unconditional love. I'll continue to pray for you.

 

[razzelflabben]

Are you posting this "different story" anywhere?
Stephen

Not sure what you mean by this question. Our study (my husband has gotten on the band wagon, is resulting in 9 different study books, complete with study guides, and 9 novels that demonstrate the practice of love in real life type settings. The first 5 books are more modern life, Pictures of love, how to identify love, how love transforms us, who we are to love, and why love is the greatest (now these three remain, faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love), 3 (geared more towards teens, but good for adults as well) are more sci fi, and deal with the 2 prophets of Rev. (love in our past, love in our present and love in our future) The last book is about love in our prayers and is a story that deals with the children's crusades (fascinating story). Each study book comes complete with study guide, and the novels all intertwine with one another. It's quite a project, and in about 3 years of deep study, we are just finishing the 2 nd study book because there is so much there.

Hope that answers your question, if not, please rephrase.