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Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by ozell, Aug 23, 2010.

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  1. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    thanks, but I am not trying to "force" anyone to anything. Unless you consider being determined to communicate effectively trying to force someone to something....none the less, I appreciate the prayers, I am passionate about learning all I can about love, in fact, I am posting here this moment as a pause form further study on the topic.
     
  2. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    without doubt....amen
     
  3. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    Sister

    Yet I can read, I probally can't write but I can read ;)

    read this My emotional Sister

    Lk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

    I weep for you Sister because you refuse to read

    Rv 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


    Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


    Sister

    I can read, which is what the Lord requires us to do, The Lord did not say write because it is already written

    2Cor 1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;
     
  4. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    Sister

    I cause this sister to do no such thing, she choose to post here , like Eve chose to talk to satan in the Garden.

    I have no bone to pick with her, she believes what she believes,

    I'm not here to win friends but to fellowship.

    I know people will disagree with the understanding God and the church I attend has given me, because I read and I don't belong to a doctrine or denomination!
     
  5. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    the truth of the matter is the God of this bible destroyed a world of people by drowning them.

    whether he is a God of conditional love or a God who loves everyone, if you believe in the word of God a world of people where killed by water.


    the God of this bible killed the inhabitants of Sodom and Gommorah and the 5 surrounding suburbs

    whether u believe that God is a God of conditional love or unconditional love it really don't matter, why?

    because thew inhabitants of Sodom and Gommorah and those 5 surrounding suburbs where destroyed by fire!!!!


    The Question is why did a God of unconditional love destroy these people if he loved them?

    do God destroy people he love?
     
  6. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    why would a cattleman destroy the uninfected heard?

    Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

    the infected yes, the uninfected No!

    Mt 13v
    28: He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    29: But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

    30: Let both grow together

    until the harvest:

    and in the time of harvest

    I will say to the reapers,

    Gather ye together first the tares,

    and bind them in bundles to burn them:


    but gather the wheat into my barn.

    the God of love will burn the tares?
     
  7. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    what is salvation?

    what is love?

    according to the bible?


    if we obeyed him would this be needed?


    of coursse he does,

    yet we can read that all men will not be saved and all men do not have the knowledge of the truth

    in Noah day who was saved?
    In Sodom and Gommorah who was saved?

    man has found a way to get himself tossed into the lake of fire.


    yet if God love is unconditionally do he need a lake of fire?

    if God loves everyone as some here wishfully believe, why is a lake of fire needed?:doh:

    he loves eveyone so everyone will be in his kingdom?:confused:
     
  8. RevRo

    RevRo Newbie

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    Ezekiel 14:23
    "You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign LORD."
     
  9. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    why in the heck is the God of Love burning tares(people)?

    Mt 13v

    24: Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

    not the kingdom of heaven?

    25: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
    26: But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
    27: So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28: He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    29: But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

    30: Let both grow together

    until the harvest:

    and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,

    Gather ye together first the tares,

    and bind them in bundles to burn them:


    but gather the wheat into my barn.
     
  10. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    why would the God of love do this? He love everyone, why is he doing this to those he love?

    Ezek 14v21: For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
    22: Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
    23: And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.
     
  11. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    Jesus can't change

    Paul wrote

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    This God Jesus will kill and destroy those who disobey and refuse to turn to him.

    from Genesis to Revelation

    Jesus has not changed
     
  12. RevRo

    RevRo Newbie

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    "You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign LORD." Ezekiel 14:23
     
  13. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    What do you think I can not or will not read. The passages you presented, I have agreed on 100%, in fact, I would agree with them more than 100% if that were possible. But your application of them is way flawed and when I try to talk to you about that application, and when I show you things in scripture you are missing, you ignore the scripture, claim it wasn't presented, and quote the same passages over and over as if you can't read anything but the passages you choose to hold to.

    So let's try this, if you can and are willing to read, go back and start dealing with all the many passages you were presented with that you claimed weren't there, like that page of passages that all say that God's love is unconditional, or the pages and pages of posts that tell us what God's love really is....oh, but wait, after the many many pages and posts in this thread, you still can't figure out that man's love for God is not the same thing as God's love for man....I wonder why it is, that after all this time, and after your claim of reading, you still don't understand that God's love is different because God's love is perfect, man's is imperfect.

    Never mind, I have wasted enough time trying to get you to understand and read the basics, if someone else wants to try, they are welcome to it, there does come a point in which God tells us to shake the dust off our feet. When I am "scolded" for speaking plainly to you, I'm guessing that time has arrived.
     
  14. RevRo

    RevRo Newbie

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    I, too, am unsubscribing from this thread as I see from Genesis to Revelation that there is a condition on every promise of God from Alpha to Omega.
     
  15. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    THANK YOU!!!:)
     
  16. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    THANK YOU!!:)
     
  17. ozell

    ozell Well-Known Member

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    thank you all for your response

    Mod's Please close thread!



    ozell
     
  18. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    Conditions on promises or on Love. You see the discussion is about God's love, not His promises. Like me saying to my child, If you clean your room I will let you watch that movie....is not the same thing as my love for the child by taking care of them and feeding, clothing, sheltering, playing, punishing, etc. the child. One is about a promise made, the other is about my unconditional love for the child.

    No one here that I can recall at least suggested that promises not salvation were without conditions, they are. Even man's love for God has conditions. But God's love for man is a different matter altogether, so the real question is which are you referring to here?
     
  19. groktruth

    groktruth Guest

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    We are hoping here, to be speaking the truth in love, so that all can be edified, built up. As followers of Jesus, we hope to be effective members of His church, or body, prayerfully coming against the gates of Hell. We, of course, cannot succeed in this without His help, because it is something, and we can do nothing without Him.

    So, is He helping? He warns us that there is a condition on His helping. If we do not receive the love of the truth, instead of helping us, He will delude us.

    "And this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." We are commanded, as regards truth, to "be diligent to show ourselves approved, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

    "Confusion" means "fused with." It is from the devil, not God, and it happens when the meaning of two different words are fused together. In this case, we have salvation and love being fused together in meaning.

    So, to restore God's helping us, let us rightly divide the meaning of these two words of truth.

    He defines love as already stated. It is keeping commandments. But what is salvation? It is the end of a problem, present or threatened.

    All seem agreed that salvation is conditional. We do not escape problems unless we meet God's conditions.

    Does this mean that God's love is conditional? Only if we have reason to believe that His love is proportional to His salvation. I personally have neither prophetic nor scriptural reason to believe this, but perhaps someone else has heard God speak to this issue, or knows a scripture that would affirm such a thought.

    The problem I hope He will help us with, is to help us see His ways of viewing our lives, in contrast to our own ways. We, of course, being often carnal, think of eating and drinking and breathing as our life, but He stresses our freedom and responsibility. When our eating, etc is destroyed, we feel unloved, even when that destruction is honoring our choices and responsibility. So, God sees this destruction as loving us, as fulfilling our freedom of choice.

    He, of course, hopes that we will make different choices, and is grieved when we reject His wisdom and ways. That is love, too. But He will not let that grief on His part become a weapon in our hands by which we can force Him to yield to our opinions and ways.

    So, there's my effort at peacemaking, and increasing understanding. It is written that the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. And, understanding, according to Jesus, is critical if the seed sown is not to be eaten up by the birds of the air. It is clear in scripture that failing to rightly divide words of truth will make edifying converation impossible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2010
  20. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    not following the end of this, the beginning is awesome, but you loose me in the last sentence of the first paragraph. Help please...
    yep, but this is man's love for God. There are two things going on here. 1. man's love and God's love are not the same thing, man's love is imperfect and therefore has guidelines so to speak of what that love should look like in it's perfect form. God's love being perfect, does not require those guidelines for it is a perfected love. So, as we have been trying from the beginning to get Ozell to grasp that there is a difference between man's love for God and God's love for man, we come back to the understanding that there is indeed a difference. Man's love, which is what your first reference (and this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments) we spent quite a bit of time looking up the intent of the passage and it is pretty clear the intent is man's love for God not God's love for man...is about, is very different from God's love for man and the topic is about God's love not man's. Man's love is conditional, absolutely, God's love is not. 2. without someone explaining to us what real love is, we can't know what we are talking about. Let's say I was referring to school and you didn't understand that homework was part of your school work. I say to you, do you have your school done, you say yes, all the time leaving your homework undone because you think that homework is not part of schoolwork. That is what you are doing here with love. Part of love, is obedience because obedience flows from love. Just as judgment and punishment, and justice flow out of love, obedience does as well. You aren't loved because you are judged, you are judged because you are loved. Likewise, you don't love because you are obeyed, you obey because you love. Thus, love is without condition, however, part of love is obedience. We see this in Christ's example.
    be careful, we also must distiguish between man's love for God and God's love for man. whereas they are the same love, one is perfect and one is imperfect. One requires more qualifiers so to speak so that we fully understand what love is. See above. When it comes to obedience, yes, obedience is part of love, just as judgment is part of love, but love is no obedience, obedience is obedience. Judgment is judgment, but both are included in love and lack thereof does not equal the removal of love, but rather requires that love corrects our disobedience. IOW's pure, perfect love obeys, but if we disobey, God's doesn't remove love, but rather uses love to correct us. therefor love cannot be defined as obedience, but love without obedience isn't love. Salvation is an example of how great a love and unconditional a love God has for His people.
     
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