Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

[ozell]

=Christownsme;55870921]I think it all has to do with conditions on "what" we're talking about. We can be talking about conditions for blessings, salvation, or God's love. God's love is so much more than what you've given God credit for, Ozell.

I know God Love is great and overwhelming, this I understand. yet we read where his Love is based on conditions

what do you make of these statements from God concerning HIS Love toward us and HOW HE WANT US TO LOVE HIM?

Theses are his words

Jesus said for us to keep his commandments if we love him

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (conditions)

Jesus love toward us is based on commandments(conditions)

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

no one can explain away what is written here

God's unconditional love is supreme over and includes salvation and blessings. You're mixing blessing and salvation conditions and calling them conditions of God's love. He loves with such a magnificent love, even the person not meeting YOUR so called conditions for God's love have experienced God's unconditional love.

show me where I'm mixing blessing and salvation?

go back to the above verses and tell me where you see the word blessing or salvation?

you read the word love

here is another one for you

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

where do you see the word salvation or blessing? where is the mix up?

Conditions for blessings include, for one, following the 10 commandments. Obedience, humility, and putting God first bring about blessings.

Conditions for salvation is to believe on Jesus Christ as savior and recieve forgiveness and justification for our lives. By this condition you shall know salvation.

which proves Jesus is a God of Conditions

Conditions for God's love is like there is conditions for His grace. Grace is something we can't earn or deserve because God pours out love without measure, to having sent His Son to save us before we knew Him, to keeping us with Him while we are saved. We can stumble in obedience and miss blessings, thru condition. God's love doesn't stop. He is Love.

why is it written grace has to found in men by God?

Genesis 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 19:19
Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:

Exodus 33:12
And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

Punishment is a part of the unconditional love of God, too. Think outside the box if you can, Ozell. Because God is way outside the box.

the problem is some here won't except what on the pages of the bible.

show me where it says for me to thik outside the box? you can't

but I have showed you where the Lord said that he love us if we keep his commandments

My guess is that you are in a tough fight against the principalities and powers - Satan doesn't want you to know your Father's love.

wrong again.

I understand what the Lord says here and I accept it

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Because I'll guarantee you haven't met the conditions you've written out and believe.

wrong again

I love the Lord by keeping his commandments and he love me because I keep his commandments


yet I know what is written for those who say they know God and don't keep the commandments

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Therefore you've fallen from grace if you don't accept grace and unconditional love. I'll continue to pray for you.

keep your prayers for those who need them

I don't think you know what grace is?

but that another subject for another day!!!

 

[ozell]

because of their sin....but what does that have to do with love. Judgment is not opposed to love, it is part of it.

what is the bible definition of sin?

what is the bible definition of love?

 

[ozell]

CONDITIONS FROM THE LORD

unless the wicked turn from his wicked ways the Lord has no relationship with them

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel

WHERE DO YOU SEE THE WORD SALVATION OR BLESSING?

 

[ozell]

Proverbs 3:33
The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Proverbs 10:27
The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.

Proverbs 12:5
The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit.

Proverbs 12:6
The words of the wicked are to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.

Proverbs 15:8
The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight

9The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.

26The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words

29The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.



Job 9:24
The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job 16:11
God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked

Job 18:21
Surely such are the dwellings of the wicked, and this is the place of him that knoweth not God.


1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[razzelflabben]

show me where I'm mixing blessing and salvation?

Ozell, I provided pages of passages and you ignored every one. If your authority is scripture why ignore scripture, then come back and ask me to post them again? Salvation is not love, but is offered to us because of that love...the good things in our lives are not love, but are there because of that love.

go back to the above verses and tell me where you see the word blessing or salvation?

really? Ozell, you can do better....you are once again insisting that man's love for God, man's imperfect love, is interchangable with God's perfect love for man. It's a bad mistake to make.

you read the word love

here is another one for you

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

where do you see the word salvation or blessing? where is the mix up?

Your problem is this passage doesn't say God withholds His love from those that don't love Him, and you have been shown this time and time and time again, but instead of addressing the issue, you come back, twist it a bit more, repost it, and expect everyone here to bow to your superior understanding of what is not written. That dear one....(I will refrain from calling it what it really is).

which proves Jesus is a God of Conditions



why is it written grace has to found in men by God?

Genesis 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 19:19
Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:

Exodus 33:12
And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

Paul says that we are saved by grace and not by works lest any man should boast...(shall I provide the address for you?) Grace is how we are saved...it is not love, but it is offered to us because of God's love for man, a love that is without condition.

the problem is some here won't except what on the pages of the bible.

the only one I have seen refusing to accept what scripture says is you...ah well, that is what happens when you set yourself up as your own God, you can use scripture to justify your own bias and thus sound like something you are not. Ignoring everyone and everything else, even the totality of scripture, so that you can remain in your prideful ignorance.(just for clarification, the you's referred to here, are general you's referring to everyone who ignores scripture for their own arrogance, in fact, scripture says that God gives grace to the humble and but opposes the proud...(shall I proved that address as well?))

show me where it says for me to thik outside the box? you can't

I don't recall saying anything at all about thinking outside the box You must be mixing people again.

but I have showed you where the Lord said that he love us if we keep his commandments

sure He does, but you lack scripture that tells us He withholds His love from those that don't love Him. That is your error.

wrong again.

I understand what the Lord says here and I accept it

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.



wrong again

I love the Lord by keeping his commandments and he love me because I keep his commandments

actually, you have broken His commands on this very thread, thus showing lack of love for God, which according to you means He doesn't love you...ah well, the price of non biblical theology...

yet I know what is written for those who say they know God and don't keep the commandments

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



keep your prayers for those who need them

I don't think you know what grace is?

but that another subject for another day!!!

actually, scripture identifies you as a liar because of the commands you have broken on this very thread.

 

[razzelflabben]

what is the bible definition of sin?

what is the bible definition of love?

the short definitions
sin...missing the mark, it refers to the mark of righteousness/obeying the law.
love...putting others above self through the act of humility

there are loads and loads of passages for both of these, to many in fact, to post them here.

 

[razzelflabben]

CONDITIONS FROM THE LORD

unless the wicked turn from his wicked ways the Lord has no relationship with them

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel

WHERE DO YOU SEE THE WORD SALVATION OR BLESSING?

Let's just focus on Ezekiel for a moment...what does sin lead to? If we do not turn from our "iniquities" into "righteousness" what will happen? Death, right? Separation from God...our salvation is in our righteousness, a righteousness only available through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. and here, in Ezekiel we don't even have to add the remainder of the context to see that death/salvation is the subject. All we have to do is read it for meaning.


Also notice that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...this is an act of humility in which the other person is put above His own feelings...that is what biblical love is, it's the definition of love. Love is putting another above self in an act of humility. What greater humility than to hate it when another suffers from their own hand? Especially when what they did, is against you (God)?

 

[ozell]

Ozell, I provided pages of passages and you ignored every one. If your authority is scripture why ignore scripture, then come back and ask me to post them again? Salvation is not love, but is offered to us because of that love...the good things in our lives are not love, but are there because of that love. really? Ozell, you can do better....you are once again insisting that man's love for God, man's imperfect love, is interchangable with God's perfect love for man. It's a bad mistake to make. Your problem is this passage doesn't say God withholds His love from those that don't love Him, and you have been shown this time and time and time again, but instead of addressing the issue, you come back, twist it a bit more, repost it, and expect everyone here to bow to your superior understanding of what is not written. That dear one....(I will refrain from calling it what it really is). Paul says that we are saved by grace and not by works lest any man should boast...(shall I provide the address for you?) Grace is how we are saved...it is not love, but it is offered to us because of God's love for man, a love that is without condition. the only one I have seen refusing to accept what scripture says is you...ah well, that is what happens when you set yourself up as your own God, you can use scripture to justify your own bias and thus sound like something you are not. Ignoring everyone and everything else, even the totality of scripture, so that you can remain in your prideful ignorance.(just for clarification, the you's referred to here, are general you's referring to everyone who ignores scripture for their own arrogance, in fact, scripture says that God gives grace to the humble and but opposes the proud...(shall I proved that address as well?)) I don't recall saying anything at all about thinking outside the box You must be mixing people again. sure He does, but you lack scripture that tells us He withholds His love from those that don't love Him. That is your error. actually, you have broken His commands on this very thread, thus showing lack of love for God, which according to you means He doesn't love you...ah well, the price of non biblical theology...actually, scripture identifies you as a liar because of the commands you have broken on this very thread.

this post was not adressed to you

but thanks for your comments anyway

 

[ozell]

Let's just focus on Ezekiel for a moment...what does sin lead to? If we do not turn from our "iniquities" into "righteousness" what will happen? Death, right? Separation from God...our salvation is in our righteousness, a righteousness only available through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. and here, in Ezekiel we don't even have to add the remainder of the context to see that death/salvation is the subject. All we have to do is read it for meaning.


Also notice that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...this is an act of humility in which the other person is put above His own feelings...that is what biblical love is, it's the definition of love. Love is putting another above self in an act of humility. What greater humility than to hate it when another suffers from their own hand? Especially when what they did, is against you (God)?

your God who loves everyone and everything should not have a difference between the righteous and the wicked.

there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes
there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes

the God of uncondtional love have no conditions, and because he love everyone uncondtionally there is no wicked or righteous people

everyone should be the same in his eyes because you and others teach his love is uncondtional

 

[razzelflabben]

this post was not adressed to you

but thanks for your comments anyway

part of it was my quotes which confused me

 

[ozell]

=razzelflabben;55876191]Let's just focus on Ezekiel for a moment...what does sin lead to? If we do not turn from our "iniquities" into "righteousness" what will happen? Death, right? Separation from God...our salvation is in our righteousness, a righteousness only available through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. and here, in Ezekiel we don't even have to add the remainder of the context to see that death/salvation is the subject. All we have to do is read it for meaning.

pay attention again to the connection according to the bible!

what is righteousness according to the bible?

Deuteronomy 6:25
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

righteousness is keeping the commandments

Jesus said he love us if we keep his commandments(righteousness)

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

love from God is keeping his commandments(righteousness)
Righteousness is keeping the commandments, this is God's love for those
who do this.

Also notice that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...this is an act of humility in which the other person is put above His own feelings..

Sister

your God of love should not have the word wicked in his vocabulary because he loves everyone as you all preach.

who is wicke din his eyes if he love everyone?

how do God differentiate the wicked from the rightoeus if he lvoes everyone?

.that is what biblical love is, it's the definition of love. Love is putting another above self in an act of humility. What greater humility than to hate it when another suffers from their own hand? Especially when what they did, is against you (God)

where is the verse for your statement or is this your opinion?

Love is according to the bible

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[razzelflabben]

your God who loves everyone and everything should not have a difference between the righteous and the wicked.

why not, they are two different things, why shouldn't they be separates as such?

there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes
there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes

yep, you have been told this many times over, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't love everyone enough to provide them a means of escape from that wickedness.

the God of uncondtional love have no conditions, and because he love everyone uncondtionally there is no wicked or righteous people

I don't have a clue where you are getting this from...again, you must not understand what love is, love is not about who is what, love is about providing the resources for everyone to be righteous if they so want to be. Love is about choice, not demands.

everyone should be the same in his eyes because you and others teach his love is uncondtional

Love doesn't even mean "the same" where are you getting your understanding of what real love is, even the dictionary doesn't define love as "to make the same"....you really don't understand what love is, so how then can you pretend to understand to know if God's love is conditional or not?

I've asked you this question before and got more of the same quoting of verses that didn't answer the question...so let's try it again. Ozell, what is the biblical definition of love? Go into as much detail as you like, there are 66 books that describe love and all of them from scripture.

 

[ozell]

the short definitions
sin...missing the mark, it refers to the mark of righteousness/obeying the law.
love...putting others above self through the act of humility

there are loads and loads of passages for both of these, to many in fact, to post them here.

just post what I ask for

what is the definition of love from the bible?

wha tis the definition of sin from the bible?

put God's definition from the bible!!!

its not many verses so you don't have to do a lot of searching

all you have to do is go back to my posts and its there!!!

 

[ozell]

why not, they are two different things, why shouldn't they be separates as such? yep, you have been told this many times over, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't love everyone enough to provide them a means of escape from that wickedness. I don't have a clue where you are getting this from...again, you must not understand what love is, love is not about who is what, love is about providing the resources for everyone to be righteous if they so want to be. Love is about choice, not demands. Love doesn't even mean "the same" where are you getting your understanding of what real love is, even the dictionary doesn't define love as "to make the same"....you really don't understand what love is, so how then can you pretend to understand to know if God's love is conditional or not?

I've asked you this question before and got more of the same quoting of verses that didn't answer the question...so let's try it again. Ozell, what is the biblical definition of love? Go into as much detail as you like, there are 66 books that describe love and all of them from scripture.

pay attention to the WORD OF GOD

Romans 13:8-11

8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

IS THIS THE DEFINITION OF LOVE?

 

[ozell]

notice Paul said that Love is fulfilling the law

then he named the commandments

lets read again from the book of Romans spoken of by Paul Long after Jesus death and resurrection

Love is what

Romans 13:8-11

8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


notice he quoted the commandments, but the last 6 commandments
this is how we are to love one another

How do we love God?

 

[ozell]

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jesus is also our neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Matthew 22:35-37
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

how do we perform this act, this command?

Exodus 20


1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

 

[Christownsme]

Ozell, Do you believe Noah, who found grace in God's eyes, was following the law, which hadn't been established to mankind yet? Yes or No.

Or do you understand that grace that Noah found was the fact that he knew God loved him despite what he did was often not pleasing to God, with or without a law? Think about the fact that Noah got drunk after the flood. That same Noah found grace before that even happened.

Think of King David who, after his great sins of lust, adultery, lying, and murder, still found grace in the sight of God?

Think about the woman caught in adultery. The people wanted to know if they should stone her according to the law, being stuck in the thoughts that God's love is conditional. But because Jesus was the Seed and the Messiah (what is implicit in the name Messiah?) and bore the sins of many (why did He bear our sins? out of unconditional love or conditional love? We were his enemies when He did this for us) who would believe in Him, they through faith found grace and therefore salvation. This is picture of God's unconditional love.

God's blessings and salvation have conditions that can enable you to say God is a God of conditions. But the post is about God's love being conditional or not. And it is not.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Ozell, Do you believe Noah, who found grace in God's eyes, was following the law, which hadn't been established to mankind yet? Yes or No.

Or do you understand that grace that Noah found was the fact that he knew God loved him despite what he did was often not pleasing to God, with or without a law? Think about the fact that Noah got drunk after the flood. That same Noah found grace before that even happened.

Think of King David who, after his great sins of lust, adultery, lying, and murder, still found grace in the sight of God?

Think about the woman caught in adultery. The people wanted to know if they should stone her according to the law, being stuck in the thoughts that God's love is conditional. But because Jesus was the Seed and the Messiah (what is implicit in the name Messiah?) and bore the sins of many (why did He bear our sins? out of unconditional love or conditional love? We were his enemies when He did this for us) who would believe in Him, they through faith found grace and therefore salvation. This is picture of God's unconditional love.

God's blessings and salvation have conditions that can enable you to say God is a God of conditions. But the post is about God's love being conditional or not. And it is not.

Jesus stated that there would be those who believe in Him but do not honor the Father before Him and they are those that Jesus will not recognize before His Father. That in addition to Revelation 14:12 goes toward the proof that not only is the Father conditional in His love but His Son is as well. We are to keep God's commandments AND hold fast to the faith in Jesus or we're going to cook just like the pagans. This is what I have repeatedly said to those who espouse God's love, love, love without respect to the other aspects of our Father's personality such as wrath, wrath, wrath! We need to pay attention to the Word and stop aching to get our ears tickled with what we want to hear and believe. It is what it is people. Suck it up!

 

[groktruth]

your God who loves everyone and everything should not have a difference between the righteous and the wicked.

there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes
there is conditions which make a person wicked in God's eyes

the God of uncondtional love have no conditions, and because he love everyone uncondtionally there is no wicked or righteous people

everyone should be the same in his eyes because you and others teach his love is uncondtional

Ozell, these statements don't make sense to me. I suspect we have different definitions for words such as love and wickedness. Jesus once told His disciples that if they, being evil, knew to give good gifts to their children... But He still loved them, didn't He?

Anyway, conditional and unconditional are not words that appear in my concordance, and so we are likely to get confused trying to defend statements that use them. So, let's see what we do agree on.

Was it the love of God for the prodigal son, that kept Him looking afar off for his return?

Would you ever tell someone that God did not love them anymore, and that they should give up in hoping and praying that He would ever again draw them to Jesus for salvation?

I believe that the commandments we need to keep for salvation are the imperative voice statements of Jesus to His disciples. Should I warn you that the ten commandments of Moses are insufficient? That you see a splinter in the eyes of those who are clinging to "greasy grace," or "unconditional love" (whatever that might be), while you are ignoring the log in your own eye, your own failure to be taught "all things whatsoever I (Jesus) have commanded you (the disciples.)" Looks to me as if wisdom is trying to warn you that what you are trusting in for salvation is not what the Lord requires.

I hope, of course, that I am wrong, but it looks like a "sin unto death" in your fussing over non-biblical words, while failing to get God's definition of (i.e. rightly divide) the words He has used in scripture.

Meditate over this idea, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Jerushabelle]

"I hope, of course, that I am wrong, but it looks like a "sin unto death" in your fussing over non-biblical words, while failing to get God's definition of (i.e. rightly divide) the words He has used in scripture."

Heavenly Father,
My heart is so troubled. My Brothers and Sisters call me Calvinist, Arminianist, Judaist, Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Jew, guilty of "sin unto death", guilty of honoring You before Your Son, guilty of everything under the sun and all I want to do and be is Your obedient child. How do I live with You and for You and where do they get off?
In Jesus name,
Amen