Jesus Held to Sola Scriptura

[jimmyjimmy]

So...... Should we only listen to our blessed Lord, the second person of the one God, when He is quoting from scripture? What was the point of His incarnation? It is my understanding that firstly the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. We are told in the book of John that Jesus said and did so many things that were it all written down, the whole world couldn't contain all the books. There are some important and deep conversations that should take place between the Church and the protestant reformers, but sola scripture, I'm afraid isn't one of them really. Just a cursory study of the origin and history of the New Testament, as well as the fact that it doesn't even hold up to the first glaring test. That the scriptures don't teach sola scriptura, but rather that Jesus is Lord, should disabuse anyone that sola scriptura is a valid dogmatic principal. I am truly baffled that there are still any protestants who still hold to this odd proposition. I truly mean no disrespect, but the impossibility of at least this particular sola started me on my reluctant, but ultimately rewarding journey to Rome.

Blessings,
Steve

Thanks for the rant, but you haven't dealt with the OP, and that's what we are here for.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hmm..... I'm believe the poster simply cut and pasted scripture directly into a post. How is that a misquote?

This is one of those, if you don't know, I won't tell you moments.

 

[Neogaia777]

So...... Should we only listen to our blessed Lord, the second person of the one God, when He is quoting from scripture? What was the point of His incarnation? It is my understanding that firstly the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. We are told in the book of John that Jesus said and did so many things that were it all written down, the whole world couldn't contain all the books. There are some important and deep conversations that should take place between the Church and the protestant reformers, but sola scripture, I'm afraid isn't one of them really. Just a cursory study of the origin and history of the New Testament, as well as the fact that it doesn't even hold up to the first glaring test. That the scriptures don't teach sola scriptura, but rather that Jesus is Lord, should disabuse anyone that sola scriptura is a valid dogmatic principal. I am truly baffled that there are still any protestants who still hold to this odd proposition. I truly mean no disrespect, but the impossibility of at least this particular sola started me on my reluctant, but ultimately rewarding journey to Rome.

Blessings,
Steve

Test the spirit to see if what it has to say is an agreement with scripture, but it doesn't have to be scripture that he or it is saying, but if it doesn't agree with scripture...?

God Bless!

 

[stevenfrancis]

They (priests) couldn't. That's my point.

Scripture trumped the priest's authority.

Didn't Jesus/God Trump their authority. I'm pretty sure that the written word is incapable of actual action. God on the other hand........

 

[stevenfrancis]

Thanks for the rant, but you haven't dealt with the OP, and that's what we are here for.

I'm sorry you perceive it as a "rant", (it's not), but seriously, how is this not Germain to the op that asks why we don't believe sola scriptura?

 

[stevenfrancis]

but it doesn't have to be scripture that he or it is saying, but if it doesn't agree with scripture...?

God Bless![/QUOTE)
Hi. I know the first 1/2 of the sentence is a scripture quote. From this point on I'm afraid I'm a little lost. ie, are you providing an argument supporting my post, taking a different view than my post, or adding to my post in another way? In any event it comes off friendly, and I always appreciate that. Thank you., And God bless

 

[Neogaia777]

You Said: So...... "Should we only listen to our blessed Lord, the second person of the one God, (only) when He is quoting from scripture?"

And I was just expounding on it is all...

That not everyone hearing or claiming to hear from God is really hearing from God, if they have not tested those spirits by Scripture, and not have never found a few false ones yet, and went up higher, is really hearing from the true God...

And that you have to test the spirits to see if they are of the truth by the truth (scripture)...

 

[redleghunter]

It's true that the Hebrews in the wilderness were God's people, and that they had a form of governance and structure - i.e 12 tribes and only men from a certain tribe were priests. Not quite the same as a Christian church, but I take the point.

In answer to the OP though, Moses appointed 70 elders to make decisions and settle minor matters. Hopefully they asked for the Lord'd wisdom when they did this, but there was no written Scripture for them to refer to.

They did have the Law at that point and specifically the Ten Commandments written by God's Finger on stone tablets.

 

[redleghunter]

(2) Second, Sola Scrptura is also refuted by Jesus' abolition of many of the OT Sabbath and purity laws the authority of Deuteronomy 24:1-4 as grounds for divorce

Actually this is not a refutation.

Before Sinai neither Sabbath observance nor purity laws were commands.

Where you are incorrect is based on the covenants God kept with OT saints and peoples. For your argument to work, one would have to advocate God is a God of confusion or contradiction. We both know He is not.

On divorce? Jesus quoted Genesis 2 to show what God's design for marriage was from the very beginning. And in quoting such confirmed the New Covenant would be based on God's design from the beginning.

 

[redleghunter]

That's a long chapter. Can you be any more specific?

Luke 24?

Luke 24:

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

[...]

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

 

[redleghunter]

Mind if I ask how this relates to the topic of the thread?

Helps those who want to know the actual definition of SS.

 

[redleghunter]

I think post 227 covers the more important hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Certainly the more damaging.

Post #227 points out those in the seat of Moses are not doing their jobs according to Torah. My post shows Jesus telling them the same thing and that they loved their manmade traditions more.

Frankly your post makes my post stronger and keeps your post quite confusing on what you are trying to get at.

 

[redleghunter]

Love Pauls letters:


Do not deceive yourselves. If anyone of you thinks he is wise by the standard of this world he should become a fool so that he may become wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in Gods sight. As it is written: he catches the wise in their craftiness.
And again. The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1cor3:18-20

I'm sure glad you were able to quote that from a Bible.

 

[redleghunter]

Didn't Jesus/God Trump their authority. I'm pretty sure that the written word is incapable of actual action. God on the other hand........

What we have revealed of The Logos are His written words, or written about by His apostles by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And as such says thus,

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.(Hebrews 4:12)

 

[Anguspure]

Do the Father or Spirit teach things contrary to scripture?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The scripture points us towards the One who is The Authority, The Word and The Truth on all matters but it is not itself the Authority.

Any use of scripture that does not lead us into a closer relationship with and understanding of the Word of God falls short of the authority that He gives it.

 

[Anguspure]

I'm sure glad you were able to quote that from a Bible.

That would be using Scripture in the same way that Jesus did when discussing a disputed point with the one who said: "Did God really say......?".

It is the same reason that we all use written confirmation of any spoken message because sin and faithlessness (in us all) tends to subvert the message of the Word.

Nevertheless the Spirit within us resonates with the fact that the way, the truth and the life is a person, the person of Christ Jesus who himself is the Word of the Father.

 

[Anguspure]

There is no Christianity without thought. The gospel is news, not experience.

Sort of.

We are called to be doers of the Word not simply hearers. At Sinai the people said to God: “We will do and we will hear” – in Hebrew, Na’asay v’nishmah. When God heard this, He marveled and asked, “Who taught them the secret of the angels?”

What is so remarkable with these words “we will do and we will hear,” is that the Jewish people committed to doing the mitzvahs before they even heard what they were.

The Kotzker Rebbe writes that doing first, and hearing the explanation later, is akin to climbing a ladder. First we do the mitzvah. The holiness that ensues lifts us to a higher spiritual level, and from that increased place of clarity we are now able to hear the Torah in a deeper way. (with apologies David Sacks A Short Guide to a New Head)

So we may see that if we are in the sort of relationship with the Father whereby we are able commit to do what He tells us even before we hear or read His message, it will in turn enable us to hear Him better when He speaks.

 

[FireDragon76]

Any use of scripture that does not lead us into a closer relationship with and understanding of the Word of God falls short of the authority that He gives it.

That's the perspective I would tend to take. We need to focus on the proper use of the Scriptures and not merely questions of infallibility or inerrancy.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Post #227 points out those in the seat of Moses are not doing their jobs according to Torah. My post shows Jesus telling them the same thing and that they loved their manmade traditions more.

Frankly your post makes my post stronger and keeps your post quite confusing on what you are trying to get at.

Moses wrote:
And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God as he has commanded us, this will be our righteousness
Deut6:25

In Matt 23:2-4 Jesus states the Pharisees did not practice what they preached. They tied up heavy loads on the people and they crushed them with their demands.
This cannot possibly be referring to their man made rules, for they faultlessly obeyed them. It regards what they preached but did NOT practice. Therefore it concerns the law given at Sania.
The Pharisees preached obedience to the law in order to be righteous before God/ to Inherit eternal life. Moses stated the same thing in deut 6:25.
So how did the Pharisees err in what they preached? And how, by endorsing what Moses stated did they weigh the people down and crush them with what they placed on their shoulders?

 

[stuart lawrence]

I'm sure glad you were able to quote that from a Bible.

Sure let's quote more. I will use the KJV as you used that translation also:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin , for his seed remainder in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God
1john3:9

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
1john1:8

According to what is literally stated in the two verses. Which one is correct?