Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[Gary K]

Let's try and different approach. What is the purpose of the Sabbath?

Moses made this very clear.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

 

[Gary K]

The Fruit of the Spirit is the Law of:
1) Liberty
2) Life

That is what we have to do.

Now please tell me (either of you) what is the purpose of the Sabbath.

Sorry that is not what Paul said. I'll post it for you again. Maybe you'll understand it this time.

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[All Becomes New]

Moses made this very clear.

Christ made it clearer. "The Sabbath is made for man."

But beyond that, what are we supposed to do on the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

No, that is literally what you keep telling me is that we MUST.

Rom 8 only says that about the lost.

which group do you view yourself as being in?

 

[All Becomes New]

which group do you view yourself as being in?

I'm saved by the Righteous One. Not in my own strength, for then I would fall. But by God who works in me for His good pleasure.

 

[All Becomes New]

BTW, I am finding you SDA people to be quite slippery. Doesn't reflect well on you at all.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ made it clearer. "The Sabbath is made for man."

food is also 'made for man' -- what is your point?

That we should be able to do without and be just fine?

But beyond that, what are we supposed to do on the Sabbath?

Lev 23:3 - a day of holy convocation - corporate worship
Ex 20:8-11 rest
Is 58:13 a day to not devote to any secular activity
Jesus points out that it is a day to share the gospel

 

[BobRyan]

BTW, I am finding you SDA people to be quite slippery. Doesn't reflect well on you at all.

false accusations are a dime a dozen. You have to present a position, a fact, an argument of some sort.

 

[All Becomes New]

corporate worship

Okay, does God worship God?

 

[All Becomes New]

false accusations are a dime a dozen. You have to present a position, a fact, an argument of some sort.

I keep trying to do that but you guys keep slipping through my fingers and not allowing me to make my point.

So keep the Law. I will try and follow the Spirit of the Law instead.

 

[BobRyan]

No, that is literally what you keep telling me is that we MUST.

Rom 8 only says that about the lost.

which group do you view yourself as being in?

I'm saved by the Righteous One. Not in my own strength,

Then why do you claim that Paul's statement in Rom 8:4-12 saying that only the lost person "does not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" - is a statement that you as a saved person must rebel against God, must transgress the word of God, must transgress God's Commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS The LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments"

So keep the Law. I will try and follow the Spirit of the Law instead.

Is it your claim that we should reject those texts -- and then what? follow "you" in stead of the word of God?

It looks to me like you have a few contradictions in your positions.

 

[All Becomes New]

Then why do you claim that Paul's statement in Rom 8:4-12 saying that only the lost person "does not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" - is a statement that you as a saved person must rebel against God, must transgress the word of God, must transgress God's Commandments?

The difference between you and I is that I do not need to act like a Pharisee and neglect "The weightier matters of the Law" whereas you want to keep the letter of the Law.

I think I am done. You guys are not interested in a fair dialog.

 

[BobRyan]

The difference between you and I is that I do not need to act like a Pharisee and neglect "The weightier matters of the Law"

The idea that "to choose Remember the Sabbath day to keep IT holy" or to choose not to "take God's name in vain " is to "act like a Pharisee and neglect weightier matters of the law" - is nonsense.

Having the Law of God written on the heart and choosing to walk in obedience is not the definition of "act like a Pharisee and neglect weightier matters of the law" -- I think we can all see that.

whereas you want to keep the letter of the Law.

I think I am done. You guys are not interested in a fair dialog.

false accusation... again.

 

[All Becomes New]

false accusation... again.

Shall I start a poll and see what other people have to say?

 

[BobRyan]

Shall I start a poll and see what other people have to say?

You have free will you can do as you wish...

I choose the Bible -- it is the Word of God even when someone finds it "inconvenient".
The mere fact that the Bible is found to not agree with some teaching you have accepted in the past - does not make the Bible wrong.

 

[All Becomes New]

The mere fact that the Bible is found to not agree with some teaching you have accepted in the past - does not make the Bible wrong.

The problem is, I am willing to be wrong. You are not.

I'd recommend focussing on 1 Corinthians 13 for a bit of time. You have been quite contentious.

 

[Studyman]

John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36).

Jer. 17: 21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; 22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

Because "many" who come in Christ's Name, see God as a tyrant, creating unjust laws, they judge Him in this evil way. The Pharisees also refused to Glorify God, "AS GOD", and their hearts were also darkened, and as a result, they too saw God's Sabbath in the same unrighteous light. Which resulted in men teaching others that the man who had an infirmity for years that Jesus healed, in order to obey God, had to stay on the ground with his bed until sundown, and then carry his bed home in the dark, or leave his bed where those who had carried him had placed him, and walk home without it. Both completely foolish, given all that is written.

Therefore, in you it seems, and the Pharisees perception of the God of Abraham, if a woman carried her suckling child into Jerusalem on the Sabbath Day, she was to be stoned to death because she "beared a burden" through the gates and "Broke God's Sabbath". And if a man was crippled and needed his brother to carry him into Jerusalem to hear the Word of God on the Sabbath Day, this man should be killed for carrying the burden of his crippled brother to hear the Word God.

And they Judge this mother and this brother, and the man Jesus healed, and Jesus Himself, with the exact same judgment as this man in Numbers 15, who had 6 days to prepare for God's Holy Sabbaths, but "despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment" (Num. 15:31)

Jesus exposed the hypocrisy of religious men who would make these false and unjust Judgments of His Father and His Sabbaths.

Matt. 12: 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Spirit of Christ teaches as much in defining the Pharisees Sabbath that Jesus broke, from God's Sabbath that Jesus walked in.

Is. 58: 4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

If the heart of the mainstream preachers of Jesus time had "turned to the Lord", and not Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition., perhaps they would not have polluted God's Holy sabbaths and accused the innocent.

In like manner, if the heart of today's mainstream religion's preachers were to "turn to the Lord" and not Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition., perhaps they wouldn't clump Jesus in with the man in Numbers who despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment.

Perhaps if a person were to "SEEK" through the Scriptures what God meant for the term "Burden", they might understand what it means to do "well" on God's Holy Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What exactly are you accusing me of?

You said this

No one can keep God's Law.

My response was we have a different view of God. God would not give us a commandment and not give us the power to keep them. What kind of God would we serve if He gave us commandments that we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and then not give us the power to keep them. God would not ask us to keep His commandments if we couldn’t keep them. It is basically saying the devil has more power to keep one in sin than God does to keep us from sin. Is our devil bigger than our God? What we can’t do on our own, we can through Christ. Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18

 

[All Becomes New]

You said this



My response was we have a different view of God. God would not give us a commandment and not give us the power to keep them. What kind of God would we serve if He gave us commandments that we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and then not give us the power to keep them. God would not ask us to keep His commandments if we couldn’t keep them. It is basically saying the devil has more power to keep one in sin than God does to keep us from sin. Is our devil bigger than our God? What we can’t do on our own, we can through Christ. Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18

It has nothing to do with the devil. It has to do with us. We have a sin nature and it will not be gone until we are glorified.