Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[listed]

I think Bob S was, at least for a while.

That's what he said. He was a trapped convert.

 

[BobRyan]

Shabbat Shalom friend

Indeed it was very happy. And as even the majority of pro-sunday scholars freely admit - all TEN of God's TEN commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 New Covenant of Hebrews 8:6-10.

They did not first have to be "SDA" to admit to that Bible detail... as we all know by now.

Yes indeed - God's Commandments include God's TEN Commandments (Obviously) -- as we were reminded here.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

This thread is about Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Notice how Jesus Himself claims that this means KEEPING the "Father's Commandment"

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Jesus is the one speaking the TEN Commandments - AND - the New Covenant

Hebrews 8:6-10
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Jesus said "God's Commandment" and "Moses said" and "Word of God" are terms that all apply to the Ten Commandments.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Those who attempt to blame these texts on "SDAs" forget that in fact the majority of pro-sunday scholars affirm that the "Commandments of God" include God's TEN Commandments.

A Bible detail so incredibly obvious - BOTH sides admit to it. "It just does not GET any easier than this!"

(It took me about 75 seconds to see the light on this detail)

 

[BobRyan]

Now back to the actual topic of this thread - God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments and how it is that they are exactly inline with what Christ was teaching

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

This thread is about Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Notice how Jesus Himself claims that this means KEEPING the "Father's Commandment"

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

The TEN Commandments -

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Jesus is the one speaking the TEN Commandments - AND - the New Covenant

Hebrews 8:6-10
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Jesus said "God's Commandment" and "Moses said" and "Word of God" are terms that all apply to the Ten Commandments.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Those who attempt to blame these texts on "SDAs" forget that in fact the majority of pro-sunday scholars affirm that the "Commandments of God" include God's TEN Commandments.

A Bible detail so incredibly obvious - BOTH sides admit to it. "It just does not GET any easier than this!"

(It took me about 75 seconds to see the light on this Bible detail)

 

[BobRyan]

That's what he said. He was a trapped convert.

That sounds pretty funny. Like being "trapped" in a Baptist or Methodist church only to be "freed" -- and then to continue going there (as he claims he continues to go to the SDA church to this very day.) what sort of "trapped" is that ??

What sort of side trail is this???

On this thread we find out that one does not have to be "SDA" to find out that the Bible contains the TEN Commandments included in the "Commandments of God" that are written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[bugkiller]

That sounds pretty funny. Like being "trapped" in a Baptist or Methodist church only to be "freed" -- and then to continue going there (as he claims he continues to go to the SDA church to this very day.) what sort of "trapped" is that ??

What sort of side trail is this???

On this thread we find out that one does not have to be "SDA" to find out that the Bible contains the TEN Commandments included in the "Commandments of God" that are written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

He said he goes to visit old friends. I do not think he attends SDA activities regularly. Could be wrong. Hope he tells us.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

When see "commandments" in the Word of God, but we know it is the Old Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT NOT," and New Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT LOVE"

Romans 7 and 8 show us that the Ten Commandments was the "law of sin and death." The commandments under the New Covenant is the "law of the Spirit." Romans 8:2 tells us that 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

He said he goes to visit old friends.

That is nice. I am glad he is having fun each Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

When see "commandments" in the Word of God, but we know it is the Old Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT NOT,"

That is a quote of "you" right?

Under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-33 we have "7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

And both agree that scripture is wayy better than just making stuff up.

So I know we agree on this one.

And we agree that NT or OT --- no taking God's name in vain.

This is the easy part.

 

[bugkiller]

When see "commandments" in the Word of God, but we know it is the Old Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT NOT," and New Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT LOVE"

Romans 7 and 8 show us that the Ten Commandments was the "law of sin and death." The commandments under the New Covenant is the "law of the Spirit." Romans 8:2 tells us that 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Nice difference. The old is negative and the new is positive. The mind is interesting. The mind does not register the negative. So it responds to thou shalt not as thou shalt. This is why the law kills.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Nice difference. The old is negative and the new is positive. The mind is interesting. The mind does not register the negative. So it responds to thou shalt not as thou shalt. This is why the law kills.

bugkiller

Right. For instance, thou shalt not think of a pink bunnie!

What are you thinking about?

 

[bugkiller]

That is nice. I am glad he is having fun each Sabbath.

I do not think he goes every sabbath. You are in the habit of interjecting what is not there.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Right. For instance, thou shalt not think of a pink bunnie!

What are you thinking about?

Pink bunnies.. Why?

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Pink bunnies.. Why?

bugkiller

Pink bunnies???! I just told you not to!!! You bad boy!

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is a quote of "you" right?

Under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-33 we have "7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

And both agree that scripture is wayy better than just making stuff up.

So I know we agree on this one.

And we agree that NT or OT --- no taking God's name in vain.

This is the easy part.

Yes, I made it up, to show the point in Romans 7 and 8

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is a quote of "you" right?

Under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-33 we have "7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

And both agree that scripture is wayy better than just making stuff up.

So I know we agree on this one.

And we agree that NT or OT --- no taking God's name in vain.

This is the easy part.

You are still quoting the law of sin and death, Bob. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Don't you get that? That is why our commandments are 1 John 3:23. Note the thou shalt love part.

 

[bugkiller]

Pink bunnies???! I just told you not to!!! You bad boy!

Way to much fun being bad.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Way to much fun being bad.

bugkiller

Sorry, didn't mean to make you sin.

 

[BobRyan]

When see "commandments" in the Word of God, but we know it is the Old Covenant if it begins "THOU SHALT NOT,"

That is a quote of "you" right?

Under the NEW Covenant known to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-33 we have "7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

And both agree that scripture is wayy better than just making stuff up.

So I know we agree on this one.

And we agree that NT or OT --- no taking God's name in vain.

This is the easy part.

You are still quoting the law of sin and death, Bob.

No wait! Now you are saying that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 is 'the Law of sin and death" -- because Jeremiah knew that God commands the saints not to take God's name in vain in Exodus 20??

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Don't you get that?

In Matthew 5 Christ specifically says He did no such thing - He did not come to invite us all to take His name in vain. That would be "another gospel".

In fact Christ even condemns those who "teach" others to take God's name in vain -

That is why our commandments in1 John 3:23 INCLUDE all the others such as "Do not take God's name in vain" just as Christ reminds us in John 14 and John 12.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I made it up, to show the point in Romans 7 and 8

Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.


4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Next... Romans 6.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 71461078, member: 235244"]
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[/QUOTE

Such a simple reminder - the carnal mind (the normal human mind)
cannot in any way please God -
not even if it kept all the commandments ! !
Without the Spirit of Christ, "he is none of HIS" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, if the Spirit of God dwell in a person -
they love God's Law/ TORAH/ Instructions all the time, every one of them.
They don't even need a copy of the TORAH !!!
They don't have to learn the commandments,
BECAUSE the commandments are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEART ...
They will DO BETTER than those who have the TORAH > those who are hearers only > and not DOERS....

Those who have the Spirit of God dwelling in them,
obey God out of sheer grace and love and faith,
and could not even think of sinning (of breaking any commandment written or not) except it deeply grieve them.

Children of God seek whole-heartedly to please the Father,
with their whole heart and soul and mind,
with all that is within them ! YES ! YES ! YES ! IN JESUS !!!!!!!!!!

Those who are not born again,
those who do not have a new heart,
cannot please the Father.