Jesus as Michael

[EastCoastRemnant]

It's pretty simple:

The Church has never taught that Michael is Jesus. It is found no where in Scripture, it is found no where in the writings of the fathers of the Church, it is completely absent from two thousand years of documented Christian teaching.

If Michael were Christ, someone, somewhere, would have said something.

Pro-tip: If your doctrine has no history beyond a century or two, it's probably a recent innovation.

-CryptoLutheran

Really? Can you show me from church history what the 2300 day prophesy of Daniel represents? How about the 1290 or the 1260? This was not spoken of or revealed to men until the time of the end began in 1798 and knowledge began to increase and the book of Daniel was unsealed. You neglect to recognize that progressive truth was given by God over the last 2000 years.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You are deliberately missing the point and diverting attention from the main issue. Actually you are twisting this Scripture, which is even more grievous. This Scripture PROVES that Michael is not Jesus, because Jesus is LORD, and His creature calls upon Him to deal with Satan.

And what point would that be? Yours? I have shown that Jesus is referred to as an angel in scripture and that the attributes of Michael are those of Christ and that Christ comes with the shout of the arch angel leading the heavenly host to earth. Accept it or not, that your prerogative. I don't believe it's salvational but an important understanding of Christ's character.

 

[miknik5]

Really? Can you show me from church history what the 2300 day prophesy of Daniel represents? How about the 1290 or the 1260? This was not spoken of or revealed to men until the time of the end began in 1798 and knowledge began to increase and the book of Daniel was unsealed. You neglect to recognize that progressive truth was given by God over the last 2000 years.

Three and 1/2 years and the 1000 year reign

After that time "all in the graves" will rise and receive their allotment

Of course, Blessed those who have a part in the first resurrection

And blessed the man who waits 1335 days and does not "go out"

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Archangel Michael is quite distinct from the Word, otherwise Daniel 10:13 wouldn't call him just one of the princes.

I think an understanding of the Hebrew would be helpful...

Prince
H8269

שׂר


śar


sar


From H8323; a head person (of any rank or class): - captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord, ([-task-]) master, prince (-ipal), ruler, steward.


Chief
H7223


ראשׁן ראשׁון

ri'shôn ri'shôn

ree-shone', ree-shone'

From H7221; first, in place, time or rank (as adjective or noun): - ancestor, (that were) before (-time), beginning, eldest, first, fore [-father] (-most), former (thing), of old time, past.

One
H259

אחד

'echâd

ekh-awd'

A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.


As we can see the phrase "one of the chief Princes" could be rendered "the first, that was before time, lord/master/the head"

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Three and 1/2 years and the 1000 year reign

After that time "all in the graves" will rise and receive their allotment

Of course, Blessed those who have a part in the first resurrection

And blessed the man who waits 1335 days and does not "go out"

And what does that represent? When were these time prophesies fulfilled?

 

[amadeois]

Daniel

 

[amadeois]

The 2,300 days has to do with the desecration of the temple back in 174 to 168.

When Antiochus Epiphanies IV desecrated the temple and planted the abomination of desolation in the altar. Placed a pig in place of the regular wares.

Close to 6 years 110 days.

He did this when coming back from fighting the Egyptians. (From my memory so may be not exact)

MOO is that this does not carry into time past those years.

The temple was not destroyed but desecrated.

The temple was made clean again and we have the story of Chanukah.

 

[amadeois]

Daniel 12

Verse 11. 1,290 days. 30 days difference with the 1,260.

Verse 12. 1,335 days

45 days difference?

What does it mean?

 

[miknik5]

I think an understanding of the Hebrew would be helpful...

Prince
H8269

שׂר


śar


sar


From H8323; a head person (of any rank or class): - captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord, ([-task-]) master, prince (-ipal), ruler, steward.


Chief
H7223


ראשׁן ראשׁון

ri'shôn ri'shôn

ree-shone', ree-shone'

From H7221; first, in place, time or rank (as adjective or noun): - ancestor, (that were) before (-time), beginning, eldest, first, fore [-father] (-most), former (thing), of old time, past.

One
H259

אחד

'echâd

ekh-awd'

A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.


As we can see the phrase "one of the chief Princes" could be rendered "the first, that was before time, lord/master/the head"

KING is sufficient.
STRONG MAN is also sufficient

 

[miknik5]

And what does that represent? When were these time prophesies fulfilled?

Well there's the problem already

The Understanding of HIS two fold ministry

 

[miknik5]

Daniel 12

Verse 11. 1,290 days. 30 days difference with the 1,260.

Verse 12. 1,335 days

45 days difference?

What does it mean?

It means wait and not to "go out"
It means not by power or by might but by HIS SPIRIT

If we claim to know of whose SPIRIT we are of we will know what to do

If we don't?

That also will be made manifest

 

[miknik5]

The 2,300 days has to do with the desecration of the temple back in 174 to 168.

When Antiochus Epiphanies IV desecrated the temple and planted the abomination of desolation in the altar. Placed a pig in place of the regular wares.

Close to 6 years 110 days.

He did this when coming back from fighting the Egyptians. (From my memory so may be not exact)

MOO is that this does not carry into time past those years.

The temple was not destroyed but desecrated.

The temple was made clean again and we have the story of Chanukah.

then there is no need for the craftsmen?

 

[miknik5]

Every WORD OF GOD presented in lower signs and representation pointed to CHRIST

THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS is THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY

the 1335 days as well as the 1000 year reign has not yet been fulfilled

 

[amadeois]

Then there is no need for the craftsmen?

I hope you meant the destruction of the temple?

I'm not God so I don't read minds.

The temple was finally destroyed by Titus in the year 60 EC or AD.

The temple was used for blood sacrifices that ended when the last goat was killed that year.

But the "Lamb of YHVH" was really the true last sacrifice.

Then, DO WE NEED MORE TEMPLES?

Rev. 21:22
"And I saw NO TEMPLE therein: for YHVH God Allmighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."

27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever work ethnic abomination, or make the a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

 

[amadeois]

Correction:

"work ethnic abomination" was meant to be "worketh abominstion."

On that first one the cellular was writing and it was correct because it shouldn't be any discrimination at all. God hates it.

Glory be to God.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I think an understanding of the Hebrew would be helpful...

Prince
H8269

שׂר


śar


sar


From H8323; a head person (of any rank or class): - captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord, ([-task-]) master, prince (-ipal), ruler, steward.


Chief
H7223


ראשׁן ראשׁון

ri'shôn ri'shôn

ree-shone', ree-shone'

From H7221; first, in place, time or rank (as adjective or noun): - ancestor, (that were) before (-time), beginning, eldest, first, fore [-father] (-most), former (thing), of old time, past.

One
H259

אחד

'echâd

ekh-awd'

A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.


As we can see the phrase "one of the chief Princes" could be rendered "the first, that was before time, lord/master/the head"

I'm going to read it as Christians and Jews have for thousands of years, as opposed to a recent, innovated exegesis, which doesn't come from scholars of Hebrew or Greek, and is largely innovated to justify as preconceive doctrine. If the Angel of the Lord who is the Word were Michael, then he would just say so in Judges 13:18.

 

[DingDing]

I have had discussions on this forum concerning the Biblical evidence that Jesus is also Michael the Arch Angel. Some have contended with me on this stating that Jesus is not a created "angel". I would wholeheartedly agree but they seem to miss the verses in the Bible that clearly do show that Jesus is referred to as an angel (messenger) in the Bible....

Jesus is referred to as God, man, and angel. The problem is when certain groups want to promote one but not all. If you are a jehovah witness, then may God show you the error of this satanically inspired way.

 

[miknik5]

Then there is no need for the craftsmen?

I hope you meant the destruction of the temple?

I'm not God so I don't read minds.

The temple was finally destroyed by Titus in the year 60 EC or AD.

The temple was used for blood sacrifices that ended when the last goat was killed that year.

But the "Lamb of YHVH" was really the true last sacrifice.

Then, DO WE NEED MORE TEMPLES?

Rev. 21:22
"And I saw NO TEMPLE therein: for YHVH God Allmighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."

27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever work ethnic abomination, or make the a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Do you believe that in ignorance "another temple will be rebuilt during and right before the time of the end?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Jesus is referred to as God, man, and angel. The problem is when certain groups want to promote one but not all. If you are a jehovah witness, then may God show you the error of this satanically inspired way.

Not doing a promotion of only one... I am giving an understanding of the "archangel" aspect so you can know more of the attributes of our Lord.

Not JW btw... see my avatar.

 

[miknik5]

Not doing a promotion of only one... I am giving an understanding of the "archangel" aspect so you can know more of the attributes of our Lord.

Not JW btw... see my avatar.

I think the visible image of the invisible GOD...the exact representation of HIS BEING and the full radiance of HIS GLORY for it pleased GOD that in HIM the fullness of GOD might dwell kind of says it all