Jesus and "thought-action fusion".

[FireDragon76]

"Thought-action fusion" is the belief that thoughts carry the same moral weight as actions. Most psychologists will tell you that thought-action fusion is common in people with depression and some anxiety disorders, and some psychological research indicates that some religious teachings can perpetuate that anxiety if it focuses on avoiding "sinful thoughts". Martin Luther in particular had difficulties with this (he was often bothered by what seem to be blasphemous and homosexual images during prayer), as did John Bunyan (blasphemous thoughts), Ignatius de Loyola (blasphemous thoughts, failure to confess all his sins to a priest), and many other Christian religious figures throughout the centuries.

So, how exactly are we to understand Jesus words in the Sermon on the Mount? Is it hyperbole, or does Jesus really expect us to equate every violent or hostile thought with murder and every lingering glance with adultery?

 

[Tangible]

Most merciful God, I confess that I have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed: I have not loved you with my whole heart; I have not loved my neighbors as myself.

 

[CalmRon]

As a man thinks so he is.

 

[Cappadocious]

So, how exactly are we to understand Jesus words in the Sermon on the Mount? Is it hyperbole, or does Jesus really expect us to equate every violent or hostile thought with murder and every lingering glance with adultery?

The point is that for Christians, the standard is being raised, so that the severity of evil looks in the true interpretation of the Law is equal to adultery and murder in the old interpretation of the Law. Or so it was taught to me.

That said, to look with adultery or anger is not the same as having an adulterous or angry thought as such. It requires a higher order coupling and assent. Furthermore, thinking was not understood as sequestered "mental" state.

 

[CalmRon]

I think about how Jesus took the religious authority to task with always being concerned with their outside appearance when on the inside they weren't so pious. Called them white washed tombs and cups with filthy contents, hypocrites and other things to that effect, he was concerned with their intents rather than the specific actions. Because its the inside of that determines our outside and that we can do all the right things for the wrong reasons

 

[Chicken Little]

"some psychological research" what what would you expect them to say .. like the men who stare at goats and you are going to take these guys serious.

 

[Chicken Little]

first lets say it is never a sin to be tempted in that first few seconds .
it is a sin when that temptation grabs you up
sits on you , lays you down and it has it's way with you if you get my meaning.
hell and death is between our ears.
it is not a sin if temptation only flashes you like on TV and then you turn from it .
it is what you do with it after it flashes you that is the issues of those sins.
now there is consequences for letting thoughts have their way with you .
and there are worse consequences if you physically do things about it,
up and to the adultery/ physical bonding and not just mental( emotional ) bonding/bondage of our thoughts and thus mental heath . these are all different levels of bondage to sin which will own you and claim you.

this is what Jesus blood sets us free from these ties to our own sins/owners , if we make him lord and follow him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think about how Jesus took the religious authority to task with always being concerned with their outside appearance when on the inside they weren't so pious. Called them white washed tombs and cups with filthy contents, hypocrites and other things to that effect, he was concerned with their intents rather than the specific actions. Because its the inside of that determines our outside and that we can do all the right things for the wrong reasons

It appears that Saul/Paul did also:
Acts 23:
1 Paul, looking intently at the Council, said, "Brethren, I have lived my life with a perfectly good conscience before God up to this day."
2 The high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him on the mouth.
3 Then Paul said to him, "God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Do you sit to try me according to the Law, and in violation of the Law order me to be struck?"…

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
JESUS VS THE JUDEAN RULERS

LUKE 16:24
"Then he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham! have mercy on me! and send Lazarus! that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "

So we see that the garments worn by this rich man were symbolic of royalty and the priesthood...........The rich man in this parable represents the religious Jews of Yeshua's day, exemplified by their teachers, the Pharisees and scribes.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Thoughts beget action, action begets habits, habits beget character and character begets destiny. It all begins with thoughts carried further than they need be. The temptation is to follow the evil of carrying thru with the thought. The book of James deals specifically with his matter

 

[Soyeong]

Most merciful God, I confess that I have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed: I have not loved you with my whole heart; I have not loved my neighbors as myself.

I confess too that I have sinned. However, Jesus said to love one another as he had loved them, and Jesus loves us much more than we love ourselves.

 

[Soyeong]

"Thought-action fusion" is the belief that thoughts carry the same moral weight as actions. Most psychologists will tell you that thought-action fusion is common in people with depression and some anxiety disorders, and some psychological research indicates that some religious teachings can perpetuate that anxiety if it focuses on avoiding "sinful thoughts". Martin Luther in particular had difficulties with this (he was often bothered by what seem to be blasphemous and homosexual images during prayer), as did John Bunyan (blasphemous thoughts), Ignatius de Loyola (blasphemous thoughts, failure to confess all his sins to a priest), and many other Christian religious figures throughout the centuries.

So, how exactly are we to understand Jesus words in the Sermon on the Mount? Is it hyperbole, or does Jesus really expect us to equate every violent or hostile thought with murder and every lingering glance with adultery?

Sins are always conscious actions that we take. We can't help it if blasphemous thought pops into our head, but we are in control of whether we choose to dwell or focus on them.

 

[Tangible]

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

 

[FireDragon76]

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

If we can't help but sin... why hold anybody responsible for sinning?

 

[CalmRon]

If we can't help but sin... why hold anybody responsible for sinning?

once you are in Christ, you have choice. If you keep your mind on your belief in Christ, nothing else matters much.

Galatians 5:16

I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh

With that choice, the failing is ours alone.

 

[FireDragon76]

once you are in Christ, you have choice. If you keep your mind on your belief in Christ, nothing else matters much.

That's not what Tangible said. He said we sin because we are sinners. No choice is implied there.

 

[CalmRon]

That's not what Tangible said. He said we sin because we are sinners. No choice is implied there.

Well tangible said we sin because we are sinners, I say when we are in Christ we are no longer sinners as in we don't have to sin any longer. We are free as Long as we abide in Christ .

 

[Tangible]

That's not what Tangible said. He said we sin because we are sinners. No choice is implied there.

It's not about choice, it's about ability. As long as we are alive in the sinful flesh we do not have the ability not to sin. Because we are also perfected saints in Christ we have the ability to choose to act in ways that are not sinful, yet most often even these good works are tainted, even if we are unaware of it, by our innate sinful attitudes and motivations.

Well tangible said we sin because we are sinners, I say when we are in Christ we are no longer sinners as in we don't have to sin any longer. We are free as Long as we abide in Christ .

Those outside of Christ are 100% sinners. Those who are alive in the flesh and in Christ are 100% sinners in the flesh and simultaneously 100% holy saints in Christ. After our body of sin has died, those who are in Christ are 100% saints. Simul justus et peccator.

 

[fhansen]

It's just means that sin originates inside-without which sin would simply never occur:

25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matt 23:25-28