Jesus and the cross are extremely confusing and we are abandoned

[DarkSoul999]

God does not violate our free wills. Jesus looked upon Jerusalem and said he would have scooped them up like a mother hen under her wings, but they would not. It does grieve God to see anyone perish, which is why Peter said that he is unwilling that anyone perish and desires all to come to repentance. If he knows the number of hairs on our heads, he also knows all the torments of our souls.

I don't want to be worthless garbage. If "free will" is causing me to be trash then it would be great if God took it all away. If God doesn't want anyone to perish then why does he just sit and watch?

There are even people in the world in a much worse position than myself. Just think about the millions (billions) of children who grew up in an anti-God communist country. Even some areas of the USA are like that. They are so conditioned into rejecting God that almost nothing can set them free from the rage let alone save their souls. Maybe if there is some quirk in their personality or genetic code that leads them to figure it out truth and God despite their environment...

Yes you are right. You can say you believe all day long and it won't change anything because it has to be a faith in the heart. Faith in the heart is not a hope or wish, however, it is a knowing. The Spirit of God works when we know what he said is true. Everyone has their own path to knowing the Truth.

For me I already knew that angels were real because I had experienced them. Thus I already knew that there is a spiritual world beyond the physical world. I also knew that God was real because he had come to me in my dreams before, but he was not identified as Christ. When I was posed the question, Did I believe Satan was real, too? I at first thought it absurd. But when it was pointed out to me that it is to the advantage of a thief for a victim to not believe the thief was there, I realized I needed a Savior. It was a logical step to know that angels were real, then fallen angels (devils) should be real too.

The point of my story is that I had personal experiences with the spiritual world that I knew were real, which was the foundation for my realizing and knowing that God had become Jesus for my salvation. I can not say what your needs will be for you to know that Jesus is truly the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but merely saying he is will not do any good until you know it in your heart.

Well I'm happy that God liked you enough to send you evidence. It is likely that God is so angry with me that he will deliberately hide himself until it is time to toss my useless hide into the incinerator.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If God doesn't want anyone to perish then why does he just sit and watch?

Christ Crucified is the GOSPEL - the GOOD NEWS.

That's infinitely different than just sitting and watching.

God Provides EVERYTHING needed for Salvation to infants,
and HIDES EVERYTHING needed for Salvation from scholars/ the educated.(unless they turn to Yahweh and become like little children, they never find out).

 

[DarkSoul999]

Note where you have not seen it , as you posted >>


Then, look in Scripture, where it never changes. "Love" of /by the will, not emotions , not feelings, but by the will , the CHOICE to do as God says,
and even more, and first, HIS caring for us (HE first loved us) (not emotionally, not in feelings, but in truth, in provision, in nurturing, in sending HIS SON to die for us to redeem us and to atone for our sin) ....

Then , all along, keep seeking for honest people who LIVE as it says in Scripture - a rare person indeed, but we are still around.... God Willing....

The contrast, the difference you find in Scripture from what you see in people, until you find the people who abide IN CHRiST, immersed in His Name,
is amazing and glorious and wonderful
and as you found out, not common, not 'usually' found.
(likewise our own lives must turn to HIM, begin TODAY to change to what HE SAYS, to conform to HIS WORD) ....

I agree that these people are incredibly rare. This is why my life is completely miserable. If I had the council of a single knowledgeable Christian in my daily life then maybe things would be very different. Instead I'm just frozen in frustration and going to strangers on the internet for trite advice....sigh

oh yea and there is no hope of ever having Christian friends or a wife unless I pack up and move to a third world country where they are plentiful. Given my luck I'll probably die from parasites before that even happens xD

 

[DarkSoul999]

Christ Crucified is the GOSPEL - the GOOD NEWS.

That's infinitely different than just sitting and watching.

God Provides EVERYTHING needed for Salvation to infants,
and HIDES EVERYTHING needed for Salvation from scholars/ the educated.(unless they turn to Yahweh and become like little children, they never find out).

well he is hiding it from me and I'm not even a scholar. I'm just a deadbeat loser who is dead to spirituality because of pain. Wonderful...

 

[AlexDTX]

I don't want to be worthless garbage. If "free will" is causing me to be trash then it would be great if God took it all away. If God doesn't want anyone to perish then why does he just sit and watch?

Why do you see yourself as "worthless garbage"? God does sit back, he delegates. He gave the body of Christ the task of sharing the Gospel. But the Gospel is not to be forced upon people, only offered. Those who are willing to believe will receive.

All life has seasons of growth. I have been trying my hand at gardening. We are compared to a harvest. I found out that there is a limited time for harvesting. Too soon, the fruit is inedible, too late the fruit is inedible. It seems this is true for humanity. Soil conditions make a big difference, too. Jesus compared the human heart to 4 types of soil The first was too hard and the seed of the Gospel could not take root. The second was filled with rocks so the roots were shallow. The third had weeds choking the growth of the seed and the fourth was good soil.

The hard ground was hard because of being trampled on. People trample on other people which hardens their hearts. But hard ground can be softened. If water and tilling of fallow ground is done it can be suitable for planting. A person can be softened by goodness and kindness of other people. Likewise, stony ground and have the rocks removed and the weeds can be cut back. This is the work of the Church. Regrettably the love of money has corrupted the Church just as it has the rest of humanity. But there are always a remnant that do not fall in love with money and still esteem Christ above themselves.

Well I'm happy that God liked you enough to send you evidence. It is likely that God is so angry with me that he will deliberately hide himself until it is time to toss my useless hide into the incinerator.

All creation declares the glory of God. There is no excuse for not knowing God. Psychiatrists say that many depressed people do not want to leave their depression because they know it and are comfortable with it. We are what we are because we want to be what we are, despite the complaining to the contrary.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

God draws lines in the sands. When someone stubbornly clings to their sins, the Lord lets them, to their own destruction. God is not willing that any should perish, however, neither is he willing to violate our free wills.

 

[AlexDTX]

@AlexDTX does this work?

Quoting me alerts me without the @ symbol. But if you are commenting and want my attention that is when you use it. As for a private message I just sent you one so you could see that, too.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

well he is hiding it from me and I'm not even a scholar. I'm just a deadbeat loser who is dead to spirituality because of pain. Wonderful...

If you want to know who He "hides salvation" from, read the NT.
Likewise, if you want to find Him, read the NT, and keep seeking Him, don't give up EVER, EVEN AFTER finding Him/His Kingdom TODAY --- even after finding His Kingdom, we are TO KEEP SEEKING His Kingdom every day while we are alive.
Every day we seek Him,
and live in union with Him,
as written in the NT,
not as mankind lives, do we live.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Instead I'm just frozen in frustration and going to strangers on the internet for trite advice....sigh

Well, yes , people should realize that no place on the internet is 'safe' for fellowship or information -
everyone and everything even IN PERSON, and always on the internet,
should NOT be trusted UNTIL passing the tests (of Scripture); without Scripture and God's Spirit guiding , in person directly,
people (everywhere, including especially the internet this year) keep getting further and further from truth instead of finding it.

 

[DarkSoul999]

Why do you see yourself as "worthless garbage"?

If I had any worth as a person then this conversation wouldn't even be happening right now. Most people fall into two categories: those who immediately come to know God and those who deliberately reject him. Then there are morons like me who have no idea what is going on.

It doesn't help that I have no wife, no kids, no close friends, and basically nobody who depends on me in any way. Everything I am is 100% replaceable and far better models are already local and plentiful. If I were to drop dead right now nobody would be in imminent danger and nobody would care if my soul was tossed into the bonfire. Sometimes I tried to do good but it was all flawed and they (and God) will only remember where I failed. If I stood at the judgment seat now I would be like "God you can do whatever you want. It really doesn't matter what happens to me and there is nothing left worth saving. I am nothing..."

All creation declares the glory of God. There is no excuse for not knowing God. Psychiatrists say that many depressed people do not want to leave their depression because they know it and are comfortable with it. We are what we are because we want to be what we are, despite the complaining to the contrary.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

God draws lines in the sands. When someone stubbornly clings to their sins, the Lord lets them, to their own destruction. God is not willing that any should perish, however, neither is he willing to violate our free wills.

It is very possible that there is some area of my subconscious that is rejecting God and I don't realize it. Or maybe I'm just too freakin stupid to see the obvious. There is enough evidence in science to indicate that a creator God likely exists. However, the world is a fallen place according to Genesis. So the evidence of benevolence in creation is almost entirely mixed with chaos and destruction. People who have easy or very charmed lives will only see the goodness in creation....but it's not so great.

If there is a piece of my brain that is rejecting God then I would like a lobotomy. If this continues for too much longer I might have no choice but to take up hard drugs. It's not like life is doing me any favors. It is nothing but endless stress, tragedy, and humiliation. There is no happiness whatsoever. In fact if someone put a gun to my head right now I'd just straight up laugh and tell them to pull the trigger. That is how awful existence is to me...and I'm not even depressed. I'm just completely dead on the inside.

So I have no idea how to fix this problem. Perhaps I could try the "fake it til ya make it" approach once again and just try to convince myself that God cares about us at a personal level...but I have already tried that and it barely went a full week before crashing down.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If there is a piece of my brain that is rejecting God

Then offer it to God on an altar. Trying to change it physically instead of willingly would not help you at all to come to know or serve God in any way.

HE is the only one who can minister to our spirits, souls and minds, although if you could find someone full with His Spirit, His Life, His Way (not man's way)
it could possibly make a huge difference in how you see things - seeing REALITY and TRUTH in a person instead of only in His Word in the Bible, although the Bible is ENOUGH to start with and might be the ONLY place you can even see TRUTH and REALITY unmixed, pure and uncontaminated.

Try today 1st John , and Ephesians, reading out loud to yourself. Slow and steady, asking God to reveal His Salvation to you one word, one step at a time as He Loves to do.

Never give up, do this every day, and also seek nutritional testing/ toxicity testing / if that is possible, to rule out some of the obvious plain causes of things you describe (besides spiritual causes).

 

[AlexDTX]

People who have easy or very charmed lives will only see the goodness in creation....but it's not so great.

Perhaps the distinction should not be "charmed" but "seeing cause and effect". Not everyone connects the dots. I am one who has had what appears to be a "charmed" life, but it is not. Instead I early on in life saw "cause and effect". The Bible calls it "sowing and reaping". I recognized that whenever I did what was called "sin" (although as an illiterate in the Bible and a non-Christian) there was always consequences to my behavior. I saw that when I did what was right, those consequences were beneficial to me. Perhaps your problems are rooted in your not seeing those connections. By the way, consequences are not always immediately apparent. Seeds take time to become shoots and more time to become weeds.

 

[DarkSoul999]

Perhaps the distinction should not be "charmed" but "seeing cause and effect". Not everyone connects the dots. I am one who has had what appears to be a "charmed" life, but it is not. Instead I early on in life saw "cause and effect". The Bible calls it "sowing and reaping". I recognized that whenever I did what was called "sin" (although as an illiterate in the Bible and a non-Christian) there was always consequences to my behavior. I saw that when I did what was right, those consequences were beneficial to me. Perhaps your problems are rooted in your not seeing those connections. By the way, consequences are not always immediately apparent. Seeds take time to become shoots and more time to become weeds.

I would have to say that is an incorrect assessment. I am totally obsessed with cause and effect to the point that it has crippled my life and turned me into a ball of unhinged anxiety. I can't even form meaningful interpersonal relationships because I am constantly assessing every word, every action, and every potential future consequence. I don't know how to live in the moment or how to be calm...and forget about trust. Not possible. God won't guide my actions or maybe I'm just cutting off the spiritual connection required for it. Either way I'm totally on my own to make each second by second decision.

Every time I make even the slightest error there is a voice that screams "God hates you!" in my head. I believe that voice. I am only as good as my worst mistake.

 

[AlexDTX]

I would have to say that is an incorrect assessment. I am totally obsessed with cause and effect to the point that it has crippled my life and turned me into a ball of unhinged anxiety. I can't even form meaningful interpersonal relationships because I am constantly assessing every word, every action, and every potential future consequence. I don't know how to live in the moment or how to be calm...and forget about trust. Not possible. God won't guide my actions or maybe I'm just cutting off the spiritual connection required for it. Either way I'm totally on my own to make each second by second decision.

Every time I make even the slightest error there is a voice that screams "God hates you!" in my head. I believe that voice. I am only as good as my worst mistake.

Then perhaps you are right. We can associate cause and effect in many directions, so this does not seem to be helpful. I wish I could help you more, but not actually knowing you, I don't have enough understanding. But you do have my prayers.

 

[Serving Zion]

If I had any worth as a person then this conversation wouldn't even be happening right now. Most people fall into two categories: those who immediately come to know God and those who deliberately reject him. Then there are morons like me who have no idea what is going on.

It doesn't help that I have no wife, no kids, no close friends, and basically nobody who depends on me in any way. Everything I am is 100% replaceable and far better models are already local and plentiful. If I were to drop dead right now nobody would be in imminent danger and nobody would care if my soul was tossed into the bonfire. Sometimes I tried to do good but it was all flawed and they (and God) will only remember where I failed. If I stood at the judgment seat now I would be like "God you can do whatever you want. It really doesn't matter what happens to me and there is nothing left worth saving. I am nothing..."

It is very possible that there is some area of my subconscious that is rejecting God and I don't realize it. Or maybe I'm just too freakin stupid to see the obvious. There is enough evidence in science to indicate that a creator God likely exists. However, the world is a fallen place according to Genesis. So the evidence of benevolence in creation is almost entirely mixed with chaos and destruction. People who have easy or very charmed lives will only see the goodness in creation....but it's not so great.

If there is a piece of my brain that is rejecting God then I would like a lobotomy. If this continues for too much longer I might have no choice but to take up hard drugs. It's not like life is doing me any favors. It is nothing but endless stress, tragedy, and humiliation. There is no happiness whatsoever. In fact if someone put a gun to my head right now I'd just straight up laugh and tell them to pull the trigger. That is how awful existence is to me...and I'm not even depressed. I'm just completely dead on the inside.

So I have no idea how to fix this problem. Perhaps I could try the "fake it til ya make it" approach once again and just try to convince myself that God cares about us at a personal level...but I have already tried that and it barely went a full week before crashing down.

You're not a moron, in fact you are a very good thinker. You're also headstrong. These are qualities in short supply but very valuable - so it isn't rational (nor kind/fair etc) to think of yourself as "replaceable".

You are hurting, and something subconscious knows that by complaining when you are justified to complain, there is some sort of temporary relief (it's natural). This has trapped you in a state of self-pity and that is why you haven't broken free yet. But it also doesn't mean that you have rejected God.

I can recognise in your words that you are following Him where He is leading you, and you are genuinely missing some comprehensions that would complete the puzzle. Some operations can be a lengthy process of building and refining these comprehensions.

Do you read the bible every day?

 

[DarkSoul999]

Then perhaps you are right. We can associate cause and effect in many directions, so this does not seem to be helpful. I wish I could help you more, but not actually knowing you, I don't have enough understanding. But you do have my prayers.

Thanks for the help anyway.

 

[DarkSoul999]

You're not a moron, in fact you are a very good thinker. You're also headstrong. These are qualities in short supply but very valuable - so it isn't rational (nor kind/fair etc) to think of yourself as "replaceable".

You are hurting, and something subconscious knows that by complaining when you are justified to complain, there is some sort of temporary relief (it's natural). This has trapped you in a state of self-pity and that is why you haven't broken free yet. But it also doesn't mean that you have rejected God.

I can recognise in your words that you are following Him where He is leading you, and you are genuinely missing some comprehensions that would complete the puzzle. Some operations can be a lengthy process of building and refining these comprehensions.

Do you read the bible every day?

To be honest I seem to be reading it less and less. I just keep interpreting it as a futuristic prophecy that doesn't help me in my present circumstance.

There is of course the story of Job but my life isn't really like Job's. He had everything, lost what seemed to be everything on Earth, then had nothing but illness, and then gained it all back many fold. I have never had anything, things remain just as dull and meaningless, and everything thereafter is the future with zero indication that anything in life will change for the better.

So I am really struggling to find passages that directly relate to what I am experiencing right now. I am not just wandering the "desert" but experiencing an entire lifespan in the desert"....do you understand what I mean?

 

[amariselle]

You have misunderstood so much. I suggest you read the Bible again! Also join a housegroup to discuss properly about christianity.

When Jesus died for us his disciples ran and hid. Because they were normal simple humans. Then the Holy Spirit came upon them and that's when they sprang into action. They then became extraordinary and spread the good news. They each paid with their lives in terrible ways. Also lots of people saw the risen Lord. Jesus Christ and Father God and the Holy Spirit are real. They are right here with us. If you are willing to hear and see.
You need to go educate yourself about Jesus and pray to Him for mercy and salvation. Try watching the film The Shack, or read the book. It answers the big questions.

We most certainly are not alone and evil does not get away with anything. Every single act good or evil will be judged and accounted for by Christ himself soon enough.

Great advice to pray and read the Bible, poor adivice to read/watch The Shack. I urge you to do some careful research on that book, as well as the author (William Paul Young's) new book, Lies We Believe About God. He is a universalist, and believes many other unBiblical things.

God bless.

 

[amariselle]

I disagree with some of what you say, like there is no way to be sure there are no miracles, but doesn't matter, you still make a viable point, and to me the answer is simple.

He came to earth, proved who he was, gave us the plan and the rules, then left to see how we act...to see if we pass the test that gets us life ever lasting or not.

Look at it like school..definitely a school of hard knocks though.

We "pass the test" by how we act?

Actually, Jesus did not come just to show who He was and "give us the plan and the rules". What do you think happened on that cross?

Where, how and in whom do we find "life everlasting"?

 

[Kenny'sID]

We "pass the test" by how we act?

Of course. There was a time when that wouldn't even be a question. Some of us remember it, be good, go to heaven, don't and don't, a child could understand it. Then, in steps New Age easy religion taught by old Scratch himself. The maser of confusion, confused those who sought to be confused, because they preferred his way, and he did a great job, as one might expect.

Here's what Jesus said.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

 

[amariselle]

Of course. There was a time when that wouldn't even be a question. Some of us remember it, be good, go to heaven, don't and don't, a child could understand it. Then, in steps New Age easy religion taught by old Scratch himself. The maser of confusion, confused those who sought to be confused, because they preferred his way, and he did a great job, as one might expect.

Here's what Jesus said.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

And what is the "will of Him Who sent Jesus"? (The Father)

"Do good and go to heaven" is not the Gospel, it is "works based salvation" and it will save no one.