Jesus and the cross are extremely confusing and we are abandoned

DarkSoul999

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Au contrair! You are extremely valuable to God. You were made in his image and Christ died so you could know him.

That is nice of you to say but clearly false. I wouldn't be in this position if that was true. God is all powerful and will not be remotely affected by my destruction. It won't phase him. Not even a little...

Christ came for the handful of people who had at least some chance of being saved. Only a miracle can change my worldview now but God might not have any interest in seeing that happen...

However, you do not know him because you have not had the new birth. Christ never abandoned us. Au contrair again. He is intimately involved with all who accept his Spirit into their hearts. His Spirit is not a feeling, although we can feel his presence. His Spirit is not a doctrine of beliefs. His Spirit is His very person that comes into one's heart when one asks Him into your heart fully believing in what Jesus did. You know the doctrine, but you do not know the God of the doctrine, hence your feeling alone and abandoned.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

It is beyond obvious that the Holy Spirit refuses to "enter [my] heart" until I somehow figure out why. This is what I mean by a total enigma. I could say out loud that I believe and trust him but he already knows that I don't trust him. It is a viscous cycle!

I have absolutely no idea how to get my head to trust him! So as a result the heart just screeches to a halt...
 
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DarkSoul999

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I disagree with some of what you say, like there is no way to be sure there are no miracles, but doesn't matter, you still make a viable point, and to me the answer is simple.

He came to earth, proved who he was, gave us the plan and the rules, then left to see how we act...to see if we pass the test that gets us life ever lasting or not.

Look at it like school..definitely a school of hard knocks though. :)

I don't have any good memories of the school years...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I don't understand what you are looking at that lead you to this conclusion. People were incredibly cruel in the last century. The cycle will likely repeat itself very soon. Regular people just mostly floated through life as they usually do.
I don't believe this ever changed. In fact, people got worse towards Jesus and towards His followers , and it is still that way.
Not a cycle really -at least not predictable as far as I know - just everything keeps getting worse UNTIL Jesus Returns.

No kidding! I don't ever get to have a "new birth". I am worthless and should have never been born at all.
None of us had any claim against God, by which to call in our 'markers'/ to be born again. It is always and only as it always has been: not by the will of man, nor of the flesh, nor of blood, but born again BY THE WILL OF THE FATHER IN HEAVEN. Period. We all had nothing to offer, it is all of HIM. (except willingness, we have to be willing, and that's really about all: willingness to learn and to do as He says )
Of course he is powerful. God will be fine. Many of us will not.
This was always true on earth, and will be until Jesus Returns, and maybe even then some.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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That is nice of you to say but clearly false. I wouldn't be in this position if that was true. God is all powerful and will not be remotely affected by my destruction. It won't phase him. Not even a little...

Christ came for the handful of people who had at least some chance of being saved. Only a miracle can change my worldview now but God might not have any interest in seeing that happen...
This is inevitably true of most of the population of the world,
but the price the Father Paid for those who seek Him, who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose, is greater than anything ever conceived by man -- the blood of His Son Jesus.
God's "interest" in who or how many will be saved is unexpected to hear:
Jesus told a disciple who asked "how many will be saved in this town, many or few?"
Jesus replied: That's none of your business. You just do what your Father has told you to do. (to remain His, to continue being His)
 
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DarkSoul999

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This is inevitably true of most of the population of the world,
but the price the Father Paid for those who seek Him, who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose, is greater than anything ever conceived by man -- the blood of His Son Jesus.
God's "interest" in who or how many will be saved is unexpected to hear:
Jesus told a disciple who asked "how many will be saved in this town, many or few?"
Jesus replied: That's none of your business. You just do what your Father has told you to do. (to remain His, to continue being His)

It seems to me like all people are products of a cosmic random number generator and God is just standing by waiting to see which products turn out ok. Jesus was sent to increase the product success rate from exactly 0% to some percentage slightly higher than that. It is very machine like. Some products are so defective that they can't change even if they want to! They get tossed in the recycling furnace or ground into mulch.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It seems to me like all people are products of a cosmic random number generator and God is just standing by waiting to see which products turn out ok. Jesus was sent to increase the product success rate from exactly 0% to some percentage slightly higher than that. It is very machine like. Some products are so defective that they can't change even if they want to! They get tossed in the recycling furnace or ground into mulch.
That's right.
"It seems to " most of the people of the world pretty much like that, or some other way with the same seemingly random results.

If that were not so, IF they saw what is really going on and what is at stake,
they would immediately call on Him to be saved. But they cannot see, so they don't.
 
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drjean

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You appear to be suffering, my friend, from catastrophic thinking... catastrophizing. It reminds me of when one was lamenting as you are, Vanity vanity all is vanity (Ecclesiastes).

All is not lost. God has not abandoned the world. God has not abandoned you... for if He had, you wouldn't be here still concerned about your life; we wouldn't be here giving you counsel, love, and support on your way. :prayer:
 
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DarkSoul999

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That's right.
"It seems to " most of the people of the world pretty much like that, or some other way with the same seemingly random results.

If that were not so, IF they saw what is really going on and what is at stake,
they would immediately call on Him to be saved. But they cannot see, so they don't.

It is so awful that I'm thinking that babies should be genetically engineered for faith. God won't change them so what other choice is there?
 
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DarkSoul999

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sorry you lost me now.
What are you seeking ?

Someday if I'm foolish enough to have a family there is a distinct possibility that they might turn to evil. God does not promise to prevent this. If only there was a way to remove that capacity. If I could remove it from myself I would do so in a heartbeat. But it is too late.
 
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Bible Believing Gentiles

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To summarize, Jesus was born as a human baby because he wanted to be born as one then grew up to teach wisdom and perform thousands of life changing miracles far beyond anything we could conceive of today. Then he finished it all off by taking on the combined misery and horror of the world for the salvation of sinners.

Immediately following his resurrection, his apostles dedicated their lives to spreading the message of what happened and what it means. Meanwhile, absolutely everything remained the same. Then they died and basically everything remained as awful as before. Sure there are still people spreading the message just like the apostles but there really isn't anything else going on. We are completely alone in this world and entirely left to our own devices. There are NO MIRACLES and I wouldn't even say that goodness holds much of any power whatsoever on this planet. Just think about how much effort, brilliance, talent, energy, and straight up luck it takes to heal people and rebuild your community. Now think about how incredibly easy it is for evil to get what it wants. Sure your spiritual fruits will earn you brownie points in heaven but you are still a small, insignificant, nothing of a person on this planet. You and I will never accomplish much of anything and God seems to refuse to empower us. He has zero interest in watching us defeat evil. In fact, you can find countless examples of Christians and other righteous people being totally crushed under-heel and the wicked taking total control for the vast majority of a nation's history.

So my question is: why would Jesus come into the world as he did and die as he did and then....completely abandon everyone?! I am not suggesting that he shoot down lightning bolts to blast the wicked I am suggestion that he EMPOWER the believers...but obviously he doesn't feel like doing that. Yes I realize that most of you don't feel alone or weak because you think the Holy Spirit is talking to you. That is wonderful. I feel happy for you. Beyond that there is no concrete evidence that God is even slightly interested in your time on Earth. He might be profoundly interested in where you spend eternity but this life is a completely disgusting waste of time. There is no hope that regular people will ever fight evil and win. In fact you will continuously cower before its might until you are lucky enough to breathe your last. It might seem like the good guys sometimes win but that victory is very very fleeting and the darkness swallows up what little progress they might have made.

I get the impression that most Christians are so focused on spiritual ideas and feelings that they never stop to contemplate just how utterly useless we all are when it comes to making a tangible positive impact on this planet.

Realistically speaking you will barely be able to take care of your own life and your family. Meanwhile, some psycho will gun down or bomb a hundred people effectively annihilating a thousand generations in an instant. Even the smallest mistake in life can have cataclysmic consequences and there is no possible way that you can avoid making them. Life is a joke and there are no miracles. What exactly was the point of Jesus showing up? Is life like some reality TV show where you have to solve the puzzle of faith so you get a reward (heaven) at the end of it? Is our moment to moment existence just a silly game to him?

I find that to be incredibly strange. Why would he suffer the horrors of the cross just to play some silly game with our pathetic souls? This seems purely contradictory as I'm sure you would agree...

The Bible is very clear that signs and wonders are finished with Paul, and will start up again with the Great Tribulation. He was the last Apostle, being that the gospel was being turned toward the gentiles after being rejected by the Nation of Israel as a whole.

The Bible mentions the concept of wisdom verses signs and wonders in two key passages. One explains the nature of both and Israelite and Greek(gentile), and the manner in which God will deal with them. The second, describes more keenly how God views a people that seek after signs and wonders despite His wisdom spilling out onto the streets.

The first is

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The Gospel is a stumbling block for the Jew, or any person who requires a sign for belief. And any gentile who is not called will view the Gospel as foolishness. But to both Jew and Gentile who will accept this Gospel, they receive Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The second passage is one you may already be familiar with:

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

We are the most adulterous generation of all time, and all of our young brains need a sign to believe. It would be safe to conclude then, that we are the generation that will receive the sign of Jonas, and a major event to follow.

The first two are described in

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

An Eclipse followed both of these events of the Main character being in darkness for three days. As for miracles, if the revelation 12 sign really did happen on September 23rd .... then the total Eclipse that told Nineveh to repent or be destroyed just crossed the full length of America on August 21st, 2017. The very day I got saved.

So what is the major event that follows this eclipse?

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Unfortunately, by the time you see this sign it's too late. That's why Jesus left right after saying it. That was all that needed to be said.

Right now though, it's not too late. You can put trust in the blood of Jesus Christ today and repent. And I hope that you would.

 
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DarkSoul999

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The Bible is very clear that signs and wonders are finished with Paul, and will start up again with the Great Tribulation. He was the last Apostle, being that the gospel was being turned toward the gentiles after being rejected by the Nation of Israel as a whole.

The Bible mentions the concept of wisdom verses signs and wonders in two key passages. One explains the nature of both and Israelite and Greek(gentile), and the manner in which God will deal with them. The second, describes more keenly how God views a people that seek after signs and wonders despite His wisdom spilling out onto the streets.

The first is

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The Gospel is a stumbling block for the Jew, or any person who requires a sign for belief. And any gentile who is not called will view the Gospel as foolishness. But to both Jew and Gentile who will accept this Gospel, they receive Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The second passage is one you may already be familiar with:

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

We are the most adulterous generation of all time, and all of our young brains need a sign to believe. It would be safe to conclude then, that we are the generation that will receive the sign of Jonas, and a major event to follow.

The first two are described in

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

An Eclipse followed both of these events of the Main character being in darkness for three days. As for miracles, if the revelation 12 sign really did happen on September 23rd .... then the total Eclipse that told Nineveh to repent or be destroyed just crossed the full length of America on August 21st, 2017. The very day I got saved.

So what is the major event that follows this eclipse?

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Unfortunately, by the time you see this sign it's too late. That's why Jesus left right after saying it. That was all that needed to be said.

Right now though, it's not too late. You can put trust in the blood of Jesus Christ today and repent. And I hope that you would.


I'll keep trying to figure it out.....sigh
 
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To summarize, Jesus was born as a human baby because he wanted to be born as one then grew up to teach wisdom and perform thousands of life changing miracles far beyond anything we could conceive of today. Then he finished it all off by taking on the combined misery and horror of the world for the salvation of sinners.

Immediately following his resurrection, his apostles dedicated their lives to spreading the message of what happened and what it means. Meanwhile, absolutely everything remained the same. Then they died and basically everything remained as awful as before. Sure there are still people spreading the message just like the apostles but there really isn't anything else going on. We are completely alone in this world and entirely left to our own devices. There are NO MIRACLES and I wouldn't even say that goodness holds much of any power whatsoever on this planet. Just think about how much effort, brilliance, talent, energy, and straight up luck it takes to heal people and rebuild your community. Now think about how incredibly easy it is for evil to get what it wants. Sure your spiritual fruits will earn you brownie points in heaven but you are still a small, insignificant, nothing of a person on this planet. You and I will never accomplish much of anything and God seems to refuse to empower us. He has zero interest in watching us defeat evil. In fact, you can find countless examples of Christians and other righteous people being totally crushed under-heel and the wicked taking total control for the vast majority of a nation's history.

So my question is: why would Jesus come into the world as he did and die as he did and then....completely abandon everyone?! I am not suggesting that he shoot down lightning bolts to blast the wicked I am suggestion that he EMPOWER the believers...but obviously he doesn't feel like doing that. Yes I realize that most of you don't feel alone or weak because you think the Holy Spirit is talking to you. That is wonderful. I feel happy for you. Beyond that there is no concrete evidence that God is even slightly interested in your time on Earth. He might be profoundly interested in where you spend eternity but this life is a completely disgusting waste of time. There is no hope that regular people will ever fight evil and win. In fact you will continuously cower before its might until you are lucky enough to breathe your last. It might seem like the good guys sometimes win but that victory is very very fleeting and the darkness swallows up what little progress they might have made.

I get the impression that most Christians are so focused on spiritual ideas and feelings that they never stop to contemplate just how utterly useless we all are when it comes to making a tangible positive impact on this planet.

Realistically speaking you will barely be able to take care of your own life and your family. Meanwhile, some psycho will gun down or bomb a hundred people effectively annihilating a thousand generations in an instant. Even the smallest mistake in life can have cataclysmic consequences and there is no possible way that you can avoid making them. Life is a joke and there are no miracles. What exactly was the point of Jesus showing up? Is life like some reality TV show where you have to solve the puzzle of faith so you get a reward (heaven) at the end of it? Is our moment to moment existence just a silly game to him?

I find that to be incredibly strange. Why would he suffer the horrors of the cross just to play some silly game with our pathetic souls? This seems purely contradictory as I'm sure you would agree...

“ 'Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.' (Mathew 7:13-14)"

Miracles are real but only the ones that find the 'narrow path' discover this truth. One human living in truth makes up for tens of thousands not. The path is narrow, very narrow and in this day and age it has become even more invisible, only the truly dedicated could possibly find it. Individuals condemn themselves, individuals free themselves, it is all free will. God only favors those who favor him, correctly.

No belief can possibly be correct as it is a belief, faith is meant to be used as tool to say 'I do not know anything, but would like to see.' If you hold a belief in the regard of 'This belief is definately true', then you will not see the truth until you recognize that nothing you think you know is true. Thinking a belief is true is as simple as thinking santa clause is real, that is the same for disbelief because there is truth. There is God's reality and human fabricated ones, each human one differs, God's does not. The gate is narrow because people prefer their own, however, by comparison, one's own fabricated reality is a hellish nightmare because the truth is that much greater.

If you want to know God then read my posts and follow my direction as I am a witness anyone who is not can neither be correct and should alter their path of teaching to learning. Who do you learn from? God himself. See the truth, do not simply believe it. Death itself is a byproduct of fabrication. If you believe death is inevitable then you are not in truth, and fabrication is built on the other side as well, entire worlds, entire realms that do not exist in truth. If you believe in death then you may as well believe you are already dead because there is little difference.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I'll keep trying to figure it out.....sigh
It's not much help that 'Christians' today don't know and honor Yahweh(God) or Yahweh's Word, does it ?

Trust the Creator, His Word, and be surprised how wonderful HE IS TODAY !
His peace, His assurance, His Promise, all Faithful and true, and He Fulfills every one of HIS PROMISES .
Yahweh never fails.
Men often fail.
 
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That is nice of you to say but clearly false. I wouldn't be in this position if that was true. God is all powerful and will not be remotely affected by my destruction. It won't phase him. Not even a little..
God does not violate our free wills. Jesus looked upon Jerusalem and said he would have scooped them up like a mother hen under her wings, but they would not. It does grieve God to see anyone perish, which is why Peter said that he is unwilling that anyone perish and desires all to come to repentance. If he knows the number of hairs on our heads, he also knows all the torments of our souls.

It is beyond obvious that the Holy Spirit refuses to "enter [my] heart" until I somehow figure out why. This is what I mean by a total enigma. I could say out loud that I believe and trust him but he already knows that I don't trust him. It is a viscous cycle!

I have absolutely no idea how to get my head to trust him! So as a result the heart just screeches to a halt...

Yes you are right. You can say you believe all day long and it won't change anything because it has to be a faith in the heart. Faith in the heart is not a hope or wish, however, it is a knowing. The Spirit of God works when we know what he said is true. Everyone has their own path to knowing the Truth.

For me I already knew that angels were real because I had experienced them. Thus I already knew that there is a spiritual world beyond the physical world. I also knew that God was real because he had come to me in my dreams before, but he was not identified as Christ. When I was posed the question, Did I believe Satan was real, too? I at first thought it absurd. But when it was pointed out to me that it is to the advantage of a thief for a victim to not believe the thief was there, I realized I needed a Savior. It was a logical step to know that angels were real, then fallen angels (devils) should be real too.

The point of my story is that I had personal experiences with the spiritual world that I knew were real, which was the foundation for my realizing and knowing that God had become Jesus for my salvation. I can not say what your needs will be for you to know that Jesus is truly the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but merely saying he is will not do any good until you know it in your heart.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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A small number of people make large strides towards bettering the world but it all pales in comparison to the weight of human sin.

Why is love so weak?
Actually there's no group of people making strides towards bettering the world.
Not anywhere.

Love , when it is God's Love, as God Says, is strong , not weak.
When it is just emotion or feeling, then it is not God's Love that He requires of us, and that emotional or 'feelings'/ soulish/ is carnal, worldly and weak.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Actually there's no group of people making strides towards bettering the world.
Not anywhere.

Love , when it is God's Love, as God Says, is strong , not weak.
When it is just emotion or feeling, then it is not God's Love that He requires of us, and that emotional or 'feelings'/ soulish/ is carnal, worldly and weak.

Then where is God's love?

I've never seen Christians do anything but float through life and that's assuming that they have relatively good health. They can barely take care of their own families and sometimes barely even themselves. Meanwhile Satan is brainwashing millions of kids across the developed world.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Then where is God's love?
Note where you have not seen it , as you posted >>
I've never seen Christians do anything but float through life and that's assuming that they have relatively good health. They can barely take care of their own families and sometimes barely even themselves. Meanwhile Satan is brainwashing millions of kids across the developed world.

Then, look in Scripture, where it never changes. "Love" of /by the will, not emotions , not feelings, but by the will , the CHOICE to do as God says,
and even more, and first, HIS caring for us (HE first loved us) (not emotionally, not in feelings, but in truth, in provision, in nurturing, in sending HIS SON to die for us to redeem us and to atone for our sin) ....

Then , all along, keep seeking for honest people who LIVE as it says in Scripture - a rare person indeed, but we are still around.... God Willing....

The contrast, the difference you find in Scripture from what you see in people, until you find the people who abide IN CHRiST, immersed in His Name,
is amazing and glorious and wonderful
and as you found out, not common, not 'usually' found.
(likewise our own lives must turn to HIM, begin TODAY to change to what HE SAYS, to conform to HIS WORD) ....
 
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