JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[LoveGodsWord]

What unrepentant sin are you talking about? bugkiller

Anything that is breaking God'd Law (10 commandments) that you continue to break and have not repented from.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN

The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right?

JOHN 8
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20 For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Who should we obey God or man?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment through there man made traditions that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly and willfully break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

God gives us the other six days to labor and work and do whatever we like. We worship God everyday but the 7th Day God says is a Holy day that God has made for His people. Jesus is the maker of this day. It is the "Lords Day" and God has commanded us to keep it Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). We follow Jesus because we love him (John 14:15;15:10). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us as we walk by faith in the Spirit.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Have a go at answering the questions for yourself if you cannot answer then just let me know I will send you the scriptures.

As I am sure you recall, you and I discussed unrepentant sin at length on another of your threads. It is simply an attempt by you to deflect from the mess you got yourself in with your errant beliefs as proved by scripture.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I do not know as I have never met such people and people that may or may not be following God should not effect your walk of faith. If you were there maybe God could have used you to help them.

The people in the sda church I went to who I chatted to the most were just like you. What they preached bore no reality in their every day lives, and neither does yours. They knew very little of the true biblical message, but knew much of selected literal letter.
In some ways it reminded me of the church of my youth. Pat statements the day you go to church, dressed immaculately for church, but what you saw and heard was just an outward display that did not reflect the true person beneath the skin. Even the services were much like the services in the Pentecostal church of my youth\.
You see, I learned about this kind of religion a long, long time ago. People in the church of my youth, as in youirs, who believed, in reality they would attain heaven by observing the law to a high degree(despite their official protestations to the contrary). All it results in is putting on an act on the outside, and making pat statements when you are with other believers. For you cannot attain to what you believe, or say you must attain to. And the higher points of the law as Christ termed them are most lacking in these people. It is always that way with those who in reality preach obedience to the law to attain to heaven.
I will allways be so humbly grateful that God rescued me from such an empty existence, and I am glad Bob S escaped it too.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As I am sure you recall, you and I discussed unrepentant sin at length on another of your threads. It is simply an attempt by you to deflect from the mess you got yourself in with your errant beliefs as proved by scripture.

There is no mess friend. We either believe God's Word or we do not. This was the purpose of post 762 linked above and the many other posts from God's Word. The questions were simple enough did you answer them? If you answered them for yourself it would be a blessing to you.

From my understanding of what you have been saying in your posts is that you believe that someone can receive God's Spirit while living in a life of unrepentant sin and also still be saved to enter into God's Kingdom. God's Word does not teach this. If that is not what you believe please answer the questions so I know what you believe...

1. Do you know what unrepentant sin is?
2. Is someone living in a life of unrepentant sin in a saved state or an unsaved state before God?
3. If someone professing to be a Christian is living a life of unrepentant sin and they are not in a saved state before God do they have the Holy Spirit?

At the very least answer them for yourself. I am happy to share the scriptures if that is useful

May God bless you are you seek him through His Word...

 

[stuart lawrence]

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The people in the sda church I went to who I chatted to the most were just like you. What they preached bore no reality in their every day lives, and neither does yours. They knew very little of the true biblical message, but knew much of selected literal letter.In some ways it reminded me of the church of my youth. Pat statements the day you go to church, dressed immaculately for church, but what you saw and heard was just an outward display that did not reflect the true person beneath the skin. Even the services were much like the services in the Pentecostal church of my youth\.
You see, I learned about this kind of religion a long, long time ago. People in the church of my youth, as in youirs, who believed, in reality they would attain heaven by observing the law to a high degree(despite their official protestations to the contrary). All it results in is putting on an act on the outside, and making pat statements when you are with other believers. For you cannot attain to what you believe, or say you must attain to. And the higher points of the law as Christ termed them are most lacking in these people. It is always that way with those who in reality preach obedience to the law to attain to heaven.I will allways be so humbly grateful that God rescued me from such an empty existence, and I am glad Bob S escaped it too.

stuart, None of us are accountable to God for the actions of others except that if we fail to help the wayward find their way back to God if this is indeed what God has revealed to us. All of us are only accountable for the truth God has revealed to us and what we have done with the truth God has sent us. Your walk with God is the most important thing to consider and if you do in deed believe and follow God's Word. No one should turn you away from following God's Word. Only we ourselves can choose to do this... We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man. If we fail to do this the scriptures tell us we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

 

[stuart lawrence]

There is no mess friend. We either believe God's Word or we do not. This was the purpose of post 762 linked above and the many other posts from God's Word. The questions were simple enough did you answer them? If you answered them for yourself it would be a blessing to you.

From my understanding of what you have been saying in your posts is that you believe that someone can receive God's Spirit while living in a life of unrepentant sin and also still be saved to enter into God's Kingdom. God's Word does not teach this. If that is not what you believe please answer the questions so I know what you believe...

1. Do you know what unrepentant sin is?
2. Is someone living in a life of unrepentant sin in a saved state or an unsaved state before God?
3. If someone is living a life of unrepentant sin and they are in not in a saved state before God do they have the Holy Spirit of not?

Or at the very least answer them for yourself. I am happy to share the scriptures if that is useful

May God bless you are you seek him through His Word...

Your understanding is woeful I'm afraid. You don't understand what truly being born again is, otherwise you would not make the pat statements you do devoid of the reality in your own life. Your understanding of unrepentant sin is exactly the same as the RC church. Where justification is concerned, you could be a member of their church, you believe as they do concerning it

 

[stuart lawrence]

stuart, None of us are accountable to God for the actions of others except that if we fail to help the wayward find their way back to God if this is indeed what God has revealed to us. All of us are only accountable for the truth God has revealed to us and what we have done with the truth God has sent us. Your walk with God is the most important thing to consider and if you do in deed believe and follow God's Word. No one should turn you away from following God's Word. Only we ourselves can choose to do this... We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man. If we fail to do this the scriptures tell us we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

You live in a fantasy world, believing you know much when you know very little

The man who THINKS he knows something does not yet knpow as he ought to know
1Cor8:2

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You7 don't live in reality. In your mind you think you know much, and are here to teach those not blessed with the knowledge you think you you have the truth of Gods word. You are sadly perfect for such debates as these. For obviously you would not get very far with your pat statements reeled off the top of your head out in the real world. It is being driven by the flesh, nothing more. You want the praise of men for what you think you know, when in truth you know very little. Carnal Christianity at best. Now please report my post as you many times have others. You will do me a favour. You are a great example of the futility of debnates on websites such as these. If anyone knows of an unsubscribe button here you can remove your account from the website please let me know. Otherwise I will ask admin to do it.
What point is there in debating the bible in these kind of debates? None at all is my conclusion. Nothing worthwhile ever seems to come from it.

Well that is a disappointing response from you stuart. Maybe you are tired and we can talk latter if you like or stop the discussion its up to you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Well that is a disappointing response from you stuart. Maybe you are tired and we can talk latter if you like or stop the discussion its up to you.

I knew all about your kind of religion forty five years ago. I will happily repeat. It is just making pat statements from your head that have no bearing on the reality of your own life. And it is reeling the partial letter of scripture off, the letter you cannot live up to in your own life. It is, just an act. Such is what happens to those, who in reality try to be good enough for God to attain heaven

 

[stuart lawrence]

Well that is a disappointing response from you stuart. Maybe you are tired and we can talk latter if you like or stop the discussion its up to you.

The truth is not in you though is it, you are decieved, for you believe you have no sin in you.
John summed that up so well, he truly did

 

[stuart lawrence]

Pharisaic religion is sadly as a live today as it was in Jesus day. The religious demanding of you what they do not demand of themselves. They make pat statements from their heads that have no bearing on the reality of their own lives. And they delight in false humility. Scripture warns us against wolves coming in sheeps clothing. The wolves of Jesus day demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. They cleaned the outside of the cup, and demanded obedience to a high standard, but they themselves could only obey outwardly, not inwardly.
So it is today sadly among many. They will attend church services immaculately dressed, making pat statements and quoting the letter of scripture. They do not drink, smoke, use foul language, they tithe their money and often fast. They may even do some good deeds. All of this the Pharisees of Jesus day would have done veery well indeed. But on the inside it was a very different matter.
Demanding of others what you do not demand of yourself is breaking the second most important commandment. Love thy neighbour as thyself. The Love of God is also neglected in such an approach. The two commandments upon which the entire law hangs are put aside, as people, in reality(despite false words of humility) try and show others they have been good enough to attain to heaven

 

[listed]

Anything that is breaking God'd Law (10 commandments) that you continue to break and have not repented from.

In-other-words sin (violation) isn't being obedient to something 1 isn't under the jurisdiction of. My wager is you're specifically implying the sabbath. That covenant law is n't the covenant Christians are under. People of religion try t o place Christians under their amended law for salvation. They try to intimidate and threaten Christians with eternal damnation for not cow towing to them.

 

[listed]

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN

The very same questions were asked in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right?

JOHN 8
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20 For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man.

Who should we obey God or man?

This intent is caught and returned like a super hero right down the barrel it came from.

 

[Hizikyah777]

Matthew 5:17-18, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.”


Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

“iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[listed]

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.). This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

The law not the Talmud and other writings were addressed in Acts 15. Peter isn't saying anything about the later being a burden. Peter is talking about the contents of verse 5 in verse 10. Peter also says this in the next verse:

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

It's clear by the discussion in the chapter salvation has nothing to do with keeping the law.

 

[Hizikyah777]

Is Acts 15 a be all end of list of instructions? or is baisc guidelines for entering a congregation? If it is the entire list there are many things that Yahshua/Jesus said not to do thatwould be ok...

Also wasnt there something about not eating blood? Is that honored today? or is that trown out too?

 

[listed]

The people in the sda church I went to who I chatted to the most were just like you. What they preached bore no reality in their every day lives, and neither does yours. They knew very little of the true biblical message, but knew much of selected literal letter.
In some ways it reminded me of the church of my youth. Pat statements the day you go to church, dressed immaculately for church, but what you saw and heard was just an outward display that did not reflect the true person beneath the skin. Even the services were much like the services in the Pentecostal church of my youth\.
You see, I learned about this kind of religion a long, long time ago. People in the church of my youth, as in youirs, who believed, in reality they would attain heaven by observing the law to a high degree(despite their official protestations to the contrary). All it results in is putting on an act on the outside, and making pat statements when you are with other believers. For you cannot attain to what you believe, or say you must attain to. And the higher points of the law as Christ termed them are most lacking in these people. It is always that way with those who in reality preach obedience to the law to attain to heaven.
I will allways be so humbly grateful that God rescued me from such an empty existence, and I am glad Bob S escaped it too.

I belong to that delivered group as well. Thank God and it's wonderful. I was very stubborn in receiving that deliverance.