Jerusalem or Rome: Who is Babylon the Great?

[ewq1938]

we seem to be having a misunderstanding; I think I meant to say holy can refer to an extreme royal status, other times it can imply sanctification.

Can you document that?

 

[sparow]

Can you document that?

First I divide Holy into two groups, the God of Israel kind, and the Pagan kind.


In the OT there are seven Hebrew words that are rendered “Holy”;
In general or one usage implies good (as opposed to evil);
Another Hebrew word means Temple or Palace;
Another two Hebrew word describes sacred, ceremonial, eminence, sanctuary and angels;
There is a Hebrew word that names a beginning place;
There is a Hebrew word rendered Holy that refers to the act of making sacred and/or sanctified;
And a Hebrew word for a thing or Place being sacred and/or sanctified.

All of these are under the Lordship of the God of Israel.


In the NT there are four Greek word rendered “Holy”.
Meaning to make sacred;
To be sacred and blameless;
Things that are sacred;
A person having a right character, being pious.

These are under the Lordship of the Church.

 

[ewq1938]

First I divide Holy into two groups, the God of Israel kind, and the Pagan kind.

I don't see evidence of that. Holy is of one group, one definition....something good ie: holy. When Jerusalem is called holy in Rev 11, it meant the city was holy in God's eyes. Through the GT, it loses that holiness and is called Sodom and Egypt which seems to be immorality and either slavery or false god worship or both as those were prevalent in Egypt.

 

[sparow]

I don't see evidence of that. Holy is of one group, one definition....something good ie: holy. When Jerusalem is called holy in Rev 11, it meant the city was holy in God's eyes. Through the GT, it loses that holiness and is called Sodom and Egypt which seems to be immorality and either slavery or false god worship or both as those were prevalent in Egypt.

There are seven Hebrew words each with a different meaning; from the dictionary the word holy means all of the seven different things, a kind of circular logic thing. If we go back to the root of holy, it means whole or complete.

I would not call Jerusalem Holy, if I were a translator I would not have used holy at all in scripture.

Jerusalem like all Hebrew names has a meaning; Jerusalem is associated with peace and has in it's roots, to teach, to flow as water, to cast, direct, to inform, instruct, to shoot straight.

I do not know if Bible translators have called Jerusalem Holy, but if they did the probably had Pagan piousness in mind.

Looking at Rev. 11, the only Jerusalem that could be called blameless is the New Jerusalem, and Gog and his armies surround that.

 

[safswan]

TOPIC: THE FOURTH BEAST

SUB-TOPIC: IDENTIFYING BABYLON -Part 1

SCRIPTURE READING: REVELATION 18:1-END

MEMORY VERSE: REVELATION 18:4


INTRODUCTION

The book of Daniel, in chapters 2 and 7, shows clearly that it is during the rule of the fourth kingdom or fourth beast that Christ will come to establish His kingdom. (Daniel 2:40-45; 7:23, 27) Whereas the book of Daniel gives a summary of the reigns of the kingdoms of men, the book of Revelation concentrates on the fourth beast or kingdom. This is the kingdom that Christ will overthrow at His coming. Revelation 13 & 17-19 describes conditions within the kingdom and the coming of Christ to establish His rule. (Revelation 19:11-20; 17:10-12)


We are also introduced to an entity called Babylon and there are some serious admonitions concerning this entity. Who or what is Babylon? We need to identify this entity and even the beast on which Babylon rides. We are told to come out of her, but how can we accomplish this if we do not know who or what is Babylon? As we identify Babylon, the nature of the beast will become clear to us and we will be able to avoid bowing to the demands of the beast for worship.


It is the vision of John in Revelation 17 that gives the best account of the interaction of Babylon and the beast and we need to carefully examine the symbols and interpretations of this passage. History and current events will also assist in identifying Babylon, so we may escape God's judgment on her.



EXPLANATION OF MEMORY VERSE

The message from God concerning Babylon; is being transmitted by His messengers (Angels). They are revealing the state and nature of Babylon. N.B. This is being seen and heard by John in vision. Babylon is described as fallen, the habitation of devils, the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. This is the picture of a desolate condition much like that promised to Babylon of old. (See Revelation 18:2; Jeremiah 50:35, 39-40; 51:8, 37)

Is this an account of modern Babylon being judged or destroyed? No! This is a description of the moral or spiritual condition of Babylon which will precede and is the reason why the judgment will come upon Babylon. The word fallen is the Greek word PIPTO that refers to a literal or figurative fall. The same word PIPTO is also translated as fall in passages that describe a sinful condition or a condition about which the Lord is not pleased. (See Romans 11:22; 14:4; I Corinthians 10:12)

The fall of Israel, i.e. descent into sin and gaining God's disapproval, was also mentioned by the Lord Jesus:

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." (Matthew 23:38; Romans 11:22)

James confirmed this state of desolation as God abandoned Israel because of her sins. The re-building would be the restoration to a condition that would be pleasing to God, not as Israel but as the Church of God.(Acts 15:16-17) Babylon is also in a desolate condition and is contrary to God's way. Babylon is filled with demons or devils and impure or unclean spirits i.e. immoral or wicked attitudes inspired by the demons. She is filled with wicked men who are like birds in a cage and they draw other men into this cage also.(Revelation 18:2; Jeremiah 5:26-27; Proverbs 27:8; Psalms 124:7; Ecclesiastes 9:12)

God is against her and she is far from His ways and hence she is fallen. She has and will corrupt all who come into her. God is calling all who would serve Him to come out of her. This is not only a call to physically leave her but to also ensure that none of her ways are found in us, also, no unclean or wicked thoughts. Rather than being in a place or condition where demons dominate, we should be where the Spirit of God is acknowledged and obeyed. (I Timothy 4:1)

Just as the woman of Revelation 12,represented the true people of God, Babylon is that system which is made up of people who are against the way of God. They may profess to be of God but their ways are contrary to what God requires of man. Some may openly defy God and His way but others may also show a form of godliness. (II Timothy 3:5; Titus 1:16)

This system is not easily identified and hence is called a mystery. (Revelation 17:5) It is not easy for one to come out either, as the pleasures of sin captivate many and others do not realize their worship is contrary to God's ways. They believe their worship and way of life is acceptable to God. They even claim to be the true way, the path to God, the true Church and deceive many who will not forsake Babylon and her ways.

Just like birds in a cage that cannot get out easily, so too those who are trapped in Babylon have a hard time getting out. Once out however, it is an even more difficult task to get Babylon out of us. The demons and unclean spirits seduce and influence many to remain in Babylon.(I Timothy 4:1-2) We must forsake Babylon and her ways completely for the judgment of God is coming upon her. The plagues refer to God's punishment of Babylon and if we partake in the sins of Babylon, we also will be visited by God's wrath.


PLAGUES - PLEGE (Greek) - a stroke or a stripe i.e. affliction; also a wound and figuratively refers to calamity.

If we are willing, then God is able to completely take us out of Babylon and let us be of those "...which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelation 12:17)

Much fasting, prayer and diligent study of God's word may be needed but God is able to deliver us from Babylon.

To be continued.

Next – Examining the vision.

 

[ewq1938]

There are seven Hebrew words each with a different meaning

Revelation was written in Greek.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I believe it's Jerusalem, because...

1. Babylon is the city where the Lord was crucified. (Revelation 11:8)
2. Babylon killed all Prophets and Saints (Revelation 18:24); same did Jesus say about Jerusalem (Matthew 23:30-37).
3. Babylon is the city which was on the beast with the seven heads. The seven heads which are symbolical described mountains aren't literal mountains, they represent Kingdoms. The first six Kingdoms are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Macedonia, Ptolemaic, Seleucid and Roman Empire. That Babylon was on the heads means it existed in their times and had influence. Rome only entered the world stage from the sixth head, with the Roman Empire. Jerusalem, on the other hand, existed and had influence since Babylon, and even before. Moreover, Jerusalem has always killed prophets from Babylon to the Roman Empire and even before. Rome did not.

In my opinion, these three points clearly disqualify Rome as Babylon. It can only be Jerusalem. Remember that through the Acts of the Apostles it is known that the Jews were the first to persecute the Church. They are called enemies of God in the NT and Jesus in Revelation calls their synagogues "synagogues of the devil".

Preface, I am not a partial preterist. I believe that the destruction of Babylon does not refer to the event in 70 AD. There will be a third and final destruction of Jerusalem.

Anyone who thinks I am wrong or would like to add something is welcome to do so.

Not only was Jerusalem destroyed by the Romans, the whole nation was brought to ruin about AD 135. I suggest that the events foretold in Revelation have happened. I also believe that the wickedness of the Jews brought God's wrath upon them. It may well be that there is a third destruction of Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 seems to state this. I'm not sure how pack animals fit into modern warfare.

 

[safswan]

TOPIC: THE FOURTH BEAST

SUB-TOPIC: IDENTIFYING BABYLON -Part 1

SCRIPTURE READING: REVELATION 18:1-END

MEMORY VERSE: REVELATION 18:4


INTRODUCTION

The book of Daniel, in chapters 2 and 7, shows clearly that it is during the rule of the fourth kingdom or fourth beast that Christ will come to establish His kingdom. (Daniel 2:40-45; 7:23, 27) Whereas the book of Daniel gives a summary of the reigns of the kingdoms of men, the book of Revelation concentrates on the fourth beast or kingdom. This is the kingdom that Christ will overthrow at His coming. Revelation 13 & 17-19 describes conditions within the kingdom and the coming of Christ to establish His rule. (Revelation 19:11-20; 17:10-12)


We are also introduced to an entity called Babylon and there are some serious admonitions concerning this entity. Who or what is Babylon? We need to identify this entity and even the beast on which Babylon rides. We are told to come out of her, but how can we accomplish this if we do not know who or what is Babylon? As we identify Babylon, the nature of the beast will become clear to us and we will be able to avoid bowing to the demands of the beast for worship.


It is the vision of John in Revelation 17 that gives the best account of the interaction of Babylon and the beast and we need to carefully examine the symbols and interpretations of this passage. History and current events will also assist in identifying Babylon, so we may escape God's judgment on her.



EXPLANATION OF MEMORY VERSE

The message from God concerning Babylon; is being transmitted by His messengers (Angels). They are revealing the state and nature of Babylon. N.B. This is being seen and heard by John in vision. Babylon is described as fallen, the habitation of devils, the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. This is the picture of a desolate condition much like that promised to Babylon of old. (See Revelation 18:2; Jeremiah 50:35, 39-40; 51:8, 37)

Is this an account of modern Babylon being judged or destroyed? No! This is a description of the moral or spiritual condition of Babylon which will precede and is the reason why the judgment will come upon Babylon. The word fallen is the Greek word PIPTO that refers to a literal or figurative fall. The same word PIPTO is also translated as fall in passages that describe a sinful condition or a condition about which the Lord is not pleased. (See Romans 11:22; 14:4; I Corinthians 10:12)

The fall of Israel, i.e. descent into sin and gaining God's disapproval, was also mentioned by the Lord Jesus:

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." (Matthew 23:38; Romans 11:22)

James confirmed this state of desolation as God abandoned Israel because of her sins. The re-building would be the restoration to a condition that would be pleasing to God, not as Israel but as the Church of God.(Acts 15:16-17) Babylon is also in a desolate condition and is contrary to God's way. Babylon is filled with demons or devils and impure or unclean spirits i.e. immoral or wicked attitudes inspired by the demons. She is filled with wicked men who are like birds in a cage and they draw other men into this cage also.(Revelation 18:2; Jeremiah 5:26-27; Proverbs 27:8; Psalms 124:7; Ecclesiastes 9:12)

God is against her and she is far from His ways and hence she is fallen. She has and will corrupt all who come into her. God is calling all who would serve Him to come out of her. This is not only a call to physically leave her but to also ensure that none of her ways are found in us, also, no unclean or wicked thoughts. Rather than being in a place or condition where demons dominate, we should be where the Spirit of God is acknowledged and obeyed. (I Timothy 4:1)

Just as the woman of Revelation 12,represented the true people of God, Babylon is that system which is made up of people who are against the way of God. They may profess to be of God but their ways are contrary to what God requires of man. Some may openly defy God and His way but others may also show a form of godliness. (II Timothy 3:5; Titus 1:16)

This system is not easily identified and hence is called a mystery. (Revelation 17:5) It is not easy for one to come out either, as the pleasures of sin captivate many and others do not realize their worship is contrary to God's ways. They believe their worship and way of life is acceptable to God. They even claim to be the true way, the path to God, the true Church and deceive many who will not forsake Babylon and her ways.

Just like birds in a cage that cannot get out easily, so too those who are trapped in Babylon have a hard time getting out. Once out however, it is an even more difficult task to get Babylon out of us. The demons and unclean spirits seduce and influence many to remain in Babylon.(I Timothy 4:1-2) We must forsake Babylon and her ways completely for the judgment of God is coming upon her. The plagues refer to God's punishment of Babylon and if we partake in the sins of Babylon, we also will be visited by God's wrath.


PLAGUES - PLEGE (Greek) - a stroke or a stripe i.e. affliction; also a wound and figuratively refers to calamity.

If we are willing, then God is able to completely take us out of Babylon and let us be of those "...which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelation 12:17)

Much fasting, prayer and diligent study of God's word may be needed but God is able to deliver us from Babylon.

To be continued.

Next – Examining the vision.

EXAMINING THE VISION

Revelation 17:1-18:

Vs. 1 - John in the vision saw an angel who had one of the seven vials of God's wrath come to show him the judgment of a harlot that sits on many waters.

Who is this harlot?

A country or a system is referred to in the scriptures as a woman. The pure or chaste woman is God's bride and follows the path ordained by God i.e. she walks in His truth. A harlot or harlot is the country or system that walks or practices that which is contrary to God's way. When Israel departed from the commandments of God, they were said to be committing whoredoms.( See Jeremiah 3:1-2, 9; II Corinthians 11:2; Exodus 34:15; Judges 2:17; Hosea 4:l-2,10-19)

Hence the harlot has departed from the true God and His way and has corrupted herself with false gods and their ways. This represents a system or a country wherein worshipers either worship other gods directly or indirectly yet claiming to worship the true God, doing so according to their own beliefs.(Matthew 15:9) This is idolatry.(Exodus 20:3)

Where is the harlot situated?

SITTETH - KATHEMAI (Greek) - To dwell, to reside, to remain, post of authority.

The woman dwells or is located upon many waters. These waters are interpreted as representing "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." (Revelation 17:15)

The harlot is therefore found in many different countries and influences many persons all over the world. This means the system which the harlot represents is practiced on a worldwide basis. However, the harlot also sits on the beast and hence the beast is comprised of peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues i.e. the nations of the world. This is supported by the visions of Daniel. (Revelation 17:3; Daniel 2:43; 7:23)


Vs. 2 - The leaders of the nations of the earth have committed fornication with the harlot i.e. they too have departed from the true way and the true God and serve false gods.

FORNICATION - inappropriate contentEUO - literally to indulge in unlawful lust or to act as the harlot, figuratively to practise idolatry.

The system of the harlot not only influences or affects the ordinary people but also the kings or leaders of the world's nations are following the path she has taken. The leaders and governments of the world support the harlot and she blesses them in their activities.

Wine refers symbolically to that which is ministered or given out. This can be wisdom (Proverbs 9:1-2, 5), Jesus' teachings or doctrine (Matthew 9:17; Isaiah 55:1), God's wrath. (Psalm 75:8; Revelation 14:10)

Hence the wine of the harlot's fornication refers to the doctrine given out as a result of the unclean or idolatrous practices or system of worship.

The fact that the world is made drunk by this wine or doctrine shows also that this doctrine is not good. Those who are walking according to God's word and who would be prepared for His coming are said to be sober but those who are walking contrary to His way are said to be of the "darkness and are drunk." (I Thessalonians 5:4-8; Isaiah 29:9-14) Those who do not understand or know the way of truth or God's way are drunken.


Why and how does this situation overtake so many?

Jesus warned of the deception that would take place in the last days. (Matthew 24:4-5,11, 24) The apostle Paul states clearly that the Lord would allow this deception to prosper so that persons will be convinced that they are on the right path and are pleasing to God. This will be accomplished by the use of signs and wonders and is because the people do not love the truth but find pleasure in unrighteousness. (II Thessalonians 2:7-12; Isaiah 29:9-14)

Yes, "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion...who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (II Thessalonians 2:11-12; Matthew 7:21-23).

Many believe they are serving the true God in a way, which He approves but are worshiping according to the teaching of man. (Matthew 15:9) The Bible is frequently used to justify their teaching but it is distorted for their own convenience and misinterpreted. Poor bible studying is a major reason why this prospers. (Isaiah 28:7-13) Even persons who do not accept Christ as Saviour use the Bible, like the devil, to support their beliefs. (Luke 4:9-12)

For example:

(i) Some followers of Mohammed say he is the Comforter (John 14:26).

(ii) Bahais say Bahullah has fulfilled the promise of Jesus to come again.

(iii) Roman Catholics claim their priesthood is following the pattern of the Levitical priesthood.

(iv) Rastafarians claim the Emperor Haile Selassie is Christ in His kingly character (Revelation 19:16).

(v) Protestants claim to have scripture as their sole authority but do not follow clear instructions in scripture concerning Sabbath keeping and avoidance of heathen celebrations e.g. Christmas, Easter, birthdays etc.

The following scriptures also show why many are deceived or made drunk by the great harlot:

(a)Deuteronomy 13:1-4 - God allows signs to follow when His word is spoken (Hebrews 2:4; Acts 2:22) but His word is supreme, not miracles, and so He will allow miracles to be used to test us if we will obey His word.

(b) Isaiah 8:16-20 - Signs and wonders will be seen among God's people i.e. God will allows signs to be manifested by His power but we should look out for those who gain power from sorcery and also perform signs and wonders. In all situations, if we stick to His words we will not be deceived.

"To the law and to the testimony: If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20. See also Acts 8:9-11)

(c) Psalm 68:18 - God gives gifts to even the rebellious, so He may manifest Himself among them. This is applicable even to the gifts bestowed upon the Church. (See Ephesians 4:8-11; I Corinthiansl3:l-2) The rebellious are those who know the true way but disobey or those who are ignorant of God's truth but are still manifesting the gift of God. These people do not have charity but they still work miracles, speak in tongues etc. The miracles convince many that these people speak the truth about God. Many will be deceived by these persons and along with their teachers will be turned away by the Lord. (Matthew 7:21-23)

(d) II Thessalonians 2:7-10 - Great miracle working will accompany the coming of the man of sin and this will be accomplished by Satan's power (sorcery). This will deceive many and cause them to believe the man of sin is to be obeyed and is a man of God. N.B. this deception was at work from Paul's time. (II Thessalonians 2:7)

To be continued.

Next – Scenes in the wilderness.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation was written in Greek.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

And what holy city is this according to God, ewq?
The only holy city on this side of the Cross is the Church, The New Testament representative of God's Kingdom on Earth, since Pentecost. It is also noted in the Scripture that the Holy City comes NOT with observation or that is observable as being in a specific location in the Middle East, but which is Christ in us. Rise up and measure this Holy City/Temple, and all the worshippers therein, and test ourselves to make sure we truly conform to Christ's image and this house. This is what the measurement is about.

God is illustrating His messenger stood, and gave John a reed. This word stood shows an action of support, just as it did in the episode of measuring recorded in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 43:6

• "And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me."

It is an act of support. And the messenger of Revelation eleven commanded God's servant John to 'rise' up and measure the true Temple of God. Measure or take an exact estimate of the true temple, of the altar, and of all the worshippers therein. See if they measure up to the form or image of Christ. See if they really are a habitation of God, or are conforming to the image of the beast.

1st Corinthians 3:16

• "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

When we have the Spirit of Christ in us, we are measured as part of the Holy Temple. It is not a measurement of literal bricks and stones which were a shadow or 'type' of the true but symbolizes the measuring of the true tabernacle in heaven, and the true believers who worship therein and who show the true image of Christ.

Ephesians 4:16

• "From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

The body of Christ, the Holy Temple of God measured every part. This is why the 'exact' dimensions were spelled out so specifically in the building of the literal Temple in The Old Testament. God didn't give us that information just so we might 'literally' build it again, but to 'illustrate' and paint a spiritual picture to us that the Lord has 'exact' dimensions for His Spiritual house, and anything that didn't conform (measure up) to the Lord's commandments or specifications, didn't belong there. The measuring implies an exact calculation of the temple and those who worship therein.

Therefore the holy city of Revelation is actually the congregation of God where she eventually "becomes" Babylon for her unfaithfulness (aka spiritual Egypt and Sodom). She is not Rome, the United States, or the physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East as most people here believe.

 

[safswan]

EXAMINING THE VISION

Revelation 17:1-18:

Vs. 1 - John in the vision saw an angel who had one of the seven vials of God's wrath come to show him the judgment of a harlot that sits on many waters.

Who is this harlot?

A country or a system is referred to in the scriptures as a woman. The pure or chaste woman is God's bride and follows the path ordained by God i.e. she walks in His truth. A harlot or harlot is the country or system that walks or practices that which is contrary to God's way. When Israel departed from the commandments of God, they were said to be committing whoredoms.( See Jeremiah 3:1-2, 9; II Corinthians 11:2; Exodus 34:15; Judges 2:17; Hosea 4:l-2,10-19)

Hence the harlot has departed from the true God and His way and has corrupted herself with false gods and their ways. This represents a system or a country wherein worshipers either worship other gods directly or indirectly yet claiming to worship the true God, doing so according to their own beliefs.(Matthew 15:9) This is idolatry.(Exodus 20:3)

Where is the harlot situated?

SITTETH - KATHEMAI (Greek) - To dwell, to reside, to remain, post of authority.

The woman dwells or is located upon many waters. These waters are interpreted as representing "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." (Revelation 17:15)

The harlot is therefore found in many different countries and influences many persons all over the world. This means the system which the harlot represents is practiced on a worldwide basis. However, the harlot also sits on the beast and hence the beast is comprised of peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues i.e. the nations of the world. This is supported by the visions of Daniel. (Revelation 17:3; Daniel 2:43; 7:23)


Vs. 2 - The leaders of the nations of the earth have committed fornication with the harlot i.e. they too have departed from the true way and the true God and serve false gods.

FORNICATION - inappropriate contentEUO - literally to indulge in unlawful lust or to act as the harlot, figuratively to practise idolatry.

The system of the harlot not only influences or affects the ordinary people but also the kings or leaders of the world's nations are following the path she has taken. The leaders and governments of the world support the harlot and she blesses them in their activities.

Wine refers symbolically to that which is ministered or given out. This can be wisdom (Proverbs 9:1-2, 5), Jesus' teachings or doctrine (Matthew 9:17; Isaiah 55:1), God's wrath. (Psalm 75:8; Revelation 14:10)

Hence the wine of the harlot's fornication refers to the doctrine given out as a result of the unclean or idolatrous practices or system of worship.

The fact that the world is made drunk by this wine or doctrine shows also that this doctrine is not good. Those who are walking according to God's word and who would be prepared for His coming are said to be sober but those who are walking contrary to His way are said to be of the "darkness and are drunk." (I Thessalonians 5:4-8; Isaiah 29:9-14) Those who do not understand or know the way of truth or God's way are drunken.


Why and how does this situation overtake so many?

Jesus warned of the deception that would take place in the last days. (Matthew 24:4-5,11, 24) The apostle Paul states clearly that the Lord would allow this deception to prosper so that persons will be convinced that they are on the right path and are pleasing to God. This will be accomplished by the use of signs and wonders and is because the people do not love the truth but find pleasure in unrighteousness. (II Thessalonians 2:7-12; Isaiah 29:9-14)

Yes, "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion...who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (II Thessalonians 2:11-12; Matthew 7:21-23).

Many believe they are serving the true God in a way, which He approves but are worshiping according to the teaching of man. (Matthew 15:9) The Bible is frequently used to justify their teaching but it is distorted for their own convenience and misinterpreted. Poor bible studying is a major reason why this prospers. (Isaiah 28:7-13) Even persons who do not accept Christ as Saviour use the Bible, like the devil, to support their beliefs. (Luke 4:9-12)

For example:

(i) Some followers of Mohammed say he is the Comforter (John 14:26).

(ii) Bahais say Bahullah has fulfilled the promise of Jesus to come again.

(iii) Roman Catholics claim their priesthood is following the pattern of the Levitical priesthood.

(iv) Rastafarians claim the Emperor Haile Selassie is Christ in His kingly character (Revelation 19:16).

(v) Protestants claim to have scripture as their sole authority but do not follow clear instructions in scripture concerning Sabbath keeping and avoidance of heathen celebrations e.g. Christmas, Easter, birthdays etc.

The following scriptures also show why many are deceived or made drunk by the great harlot:

(a)Deuteronomy 13:1-4 - God allows signs to follow when His word is spoken (Hebrews 2:4; Acts 2:22) but His word is supreme, not miracles, and so He will allow miracles to be used to test us if we will obey His word.

(b) Isaiah 8:16-20 - Signs and wonders will be seen among God's people i.e. God will allows signs to be manifested by His power but we should look out for those who gain power from sorcery and also perform signs and wonders. In all situations, if we stick to His words we will not be deceived.

"To the law and to the testimony: If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20. See also Acts 8:9-11)

(c) Psalm 68:18 - God gives gifts to even the rebellious, so He may manifest Himself among them. This is applicable even to the gifts bestowed upon the Church. (See Ephesians 4:8-11; I Corinthiansl3:l-2) The rebellious are those who know the true way but disobey or those who are ignorant of God's truth but are still manifesting the gift of God. These people do not have charity but they still work miracles, speak in tongues etc. The miracles convince many that these people speak the truth about God. Many will be deceived by these persons and along with their teachers will be turned away by the Lord. (Matthew 7:21-23)

(d) II Thessalonians 2:7-10 - Great miracle working will accompany the coming of the man of sin and this will be accomplished by Satan's power (sorcery). This will deceive many and cause them to believe the man of sin is to be obeyed and is a man of God. N.B. this deception was at work from Paul's time. (II Thessalonians 2:7)

To be continued.

Next – Scenes in the wilderness.

SCENES IN THE WILDERNESS

Vs. 3 - John is still in the state of receiving the vision i.e. in the Spirit. However, the scene changes to a wilderness where John views a woman sitting on a scarlet beast full of names of blasphemy and having seven heads and ten horns.

Being in the wilderness signifies a place of concealment or hiding. (Revelation 12:6,14) Hence for John or anyone to know this woman and the system or the beast, they must have a revelation from God. Hence, we are told she is a mystery and also warned about the mystery of iniquity. (Revelation 17:5; II Thessalonians 2:7)

The mystery however is being revealed to John and to us also (Revelation 17:7).The beast is full of names of blasphemy i.e. among the nations of the world which comprise the beast, blasphemy is a common practice. Having the names denote possession of a certain character or that which identifies the nature of someone or something. Hence, blasphemy is common in the beast. (See Matthew 6:9, Luke 1:49)

BLASPHEMY - blasphemia (Greek) - vilification, evil speaking, to curse God, to wound one's reputation by evil report, to take name in vain i.e. to use it wrongfully.

Anything said,which damages God's reputation or character or which is contrary to His character is blasphemy along with words, which degrade His character by cursing or evil speaking. Also, many degrade God's character by associating Him with things that are abominable to Him i.e. they take His name in vain. (Exodus 20:7; II Kings 18:29-37; Mark 14:62-64; John 10:30-33; Revelation 2:9; Acts 6:11-14; Mark 3:28-30) In the beast,the name of God is used in the system to justify actions, which are contrary to His will and way.

For example:

(i)Presidents, prime ministers and leaders swear in His name concerning their rule but do many things contrary to God's ways.

(ii)So-called Christian nations fight wars against each other in His name.Even bombs and armies are blessed by so-called ministers of God.

(iii)Sports and competition are carried out using His name. Victories are accorded to Him even though the other side was praying and using His name also.

(iv)Money has phrase 'In God We Trust' but also has occultist symbols as well.

(v)The true God and Jesus Christ are being given the same status as the gods of other religions. However, the God of the Bible has stated that the gods of the nations are no gods and Jesus has stated clearly that He is the only way to the Father .(Psalm 96:4-5; Isaiah 44:6-8; I Corinthians 8:5-6; John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

(vi)The true God is despised and called wicked and His ways said to be oppressive by men who disagree with His judgments and by feminists who clamour for equal status for women, for the right to abort unborn children and for the right to be sexually immoral. They claim to be serving God while promoting and doing these things.

(vii)Civil officials are given titles that rightly belong to the true God e.g.mayors are called Your Worship.

(viii)Many persons and things are promoted as representing the true God but they teach things that are contrary to God's truth.

(ix)Persons who acknowledge the true God and His ways are persecuted by others in the name of God.

(x)The ways of God are despised as men devise 'superior' ways of doing things. Their wisdom is said to be above that of the God of the Bible.

The beast is also said to possess seven heads and ten horns. The heads are interpreted by the angel and represent seven mountains on which the woman sits (Revelation 17:9).

MOUNTAIN - oros (Greek) - to rise, as lifting itself above the plain.

The woman, i.e. the system, therefore sits on seven mountains or seven structures that are above the plain. This suggests a particular location but she also sits upon many waters. How is this? The many waters refer to her presence in the nations of the world but the specific location of the seven mountains refer to the main source or the origin of the influence of this woman i.e. the home base.

Although the woman is in many countries, she has a main location or base where her doctrines are stored, sourced and practiced. This is similar to PERGAMOS which is described as where Satan dwells (Revelation 2:13).

Also for example:

(i) Islam is practised all over the world but Mecca in Saudi Arabia is a main location of the religion and is the birthplace of its founder.

(ii)Jehovah's Witnesses are all over the world but their main location or source of their doctrines is at Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.

N.B. PERGAMOS OR PERGAMUM was the first city in Asia where permission was granted for the worship of a living ruler Octavian Augustus 29 BC. Emperor worship thrived there. Also, it was the chief center of worship of AESCULAPIUS, the healing god. The mysteries of the Babylonian religion were also previously stored in a temple at PERGAMOS.

The main base or location of the woman will be identified later. The beast also has ten horns. They are identified as ten kings that have no kingdom but will receive power at the same time (one hour with) as the beast. (Revelation 17:12)

N.B. both the kingdom and the ruling king are called beast. (Revelation 17:10-11; Daniel 7:17, 23) The possible identity of these persons and kingdoms will also be given later.

Vs. 4 - The woman being arrayed in purple and scarlet shows the riches involved in this religious system (Revelation 18:16-17).

N.B. concerning the way of truth, the apostle Paul says, "...not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:" (I Corinthians 1:26)

It is the wise, mighty (powerful) and noble (of good birth) who have the wealth of the world and since they are not in the true faith, they populate Babylon and cause her to be filled with riches. This is clearly seen in the places of worship being adorned with gold, silver and other expensive materials and even some structures become wonders also.

For example:

(i) Large Hindu temples at Madura.

(ii) The golden Sikh's temple at Amritsar.

(iii) The elaborate structures of so-called Christian denominations - The Vatican, St. John the Divine Episcopal Cathedral in New York.

These and other places of worship are filled with images and ornaments made out of precious metals and stones. They are also expensively decorated and furnished. Lands and many other assets are also possessed by the woman.

N.B. the Roman Catholic Church is said to be one of the most wealthy institutions in the world and they are also said to be in control of a major portion of the world's gold supply.

The golden cup speaks of the splendor and impressive ways in which the doctrine (wine, vs. 2) of the woman is dispensed. The manner impresses many, causing them to drink and become drunk. This splendor attracts the proud and rich but also the fool. (Matthew 19:23; I Timothy 6:9; Jeremiah 51:7)


WHY IS SHE CALLED BABYLON ?

Vs. 5 - The name of the woman helps to identify her.

Just as Jerusalem was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, so too is the woman spiritually called Babylon as she has the spirit, attitude or character of Babylon. (Revelation 11:8; Jeremiah 23:14) Babylon's character and practices are hers also. It is not easy to identify her for what she really is as she does not go by the name Babylon. Hence, she is a mystery. It is because of this why many rate Babylon as godly and her adherents as great men of God. Evil is called good and good called evil, (Isaiah 5:20)

The harlot, Babylon, has many followers, hence they are called daughters i.e. other groups of people or systems that follow,pattern and also have the Babylonian character. Their doctrines fill the earth and are doctrines which are abominable i.e. disgusting in God's sight.

To be continued

Next: Who is Babylon and who are her daughters.

 

[benadamm]

Jesus accused the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem of killing the prophets back to Abel.
The first family was matriarchal before then.
Scripture describes her as having all the blood of the prophets on her hands.

The first family is patriarchal when Seth is born.

 

[safswan]

SCENES IN THE WILDERNESS

Vs. 3 - John is still in the state of receiving the vision i.e. in the Spirit. However, the scene changes to a wilderness where John views a woman sitting on a scarlet beast full of names of blasphemy and having seven heads and ten horns.

Being in the wilderness signifies a place of concealment or hiding. (Revelation 12:6,14) Hence for John or anyone to know this woman and the system or the beast, they must have a revelation from God. Hence, we are told she is a mystery and also warned about the mystery of iniquity. (Revelation 17:5; II Thessalonians 2:7)

The mystery however is being revealed to John and to us also (Revelation 17:7).The beast is full of names of blasphemy i.e. among the nations of the world which comprise the beast, blasphemy is a common practice. Having the names denote possession of a certain character or that which identifies the nature of someone or something. Hence, blasphemy is common in the beast. (See Matthew 6:9, Luke 1:49)

BLASPHEMY - blasphemia (Greek) - vilification, evil speaking, to curse God, to wound one's reputation by evil report, to take name in vain i.e. to use it wrongfully.

Anything said,which damages God's reputation or character or which is contrary to His character is blasphemy along with words, which degrade His character by cursing or evil speaking. Also, many degrade God's character by associating Him with things that are abominable to Him i.e. they take His name in vain. (Exodus 20:7; II Kings 18:29-37; Mark 14:62-64; John 10:30-33; Revelation 2:9; Acts 6:11-14; Mark 3:28-30) In the beast,the name of God is used in the system to justify actions, which are contrary to His will and way.

For example:

(i)Presidents, prime ministers and leaders swear in His name concerning their rule but do many things contrary to God's ways.

(ii)So-called Christian nations fight wars against each other in His name.Even bombs and armies are blessed by so-called ministers of God.

(iii)Sports and competition are carried out using His name. Victories are accorded to Him even though the other side was praying and using His name also.

(iv)Money has phrase 'In God We Trust' but also has occultist symbols as well.

(v)The true God and Jesus Christ are being given the same status as the gods of other religions. However, the God of the Bible has stated that the gods of the nations are no gods and Jesus has stated clearly that He is the only way to the Father .(Psalm 96:4-5; Isaiah 44:6-8; I Corinthians 8:5-6; John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

(vi)The true God is despised and called wicked and His ways said to be oppressive by men who disagree with His judgments and by feminists who clamour for equal status for women, for the right to abort unborn children and for the right to be sexually immoral. They claim to be serving God while promoting and doing these things.

(vii)Civil officials are given titles that rightly belong to the true God e.g.mayors are called Your Worship.

(viii)Many persons and things are promoted as representing the true God but they teach things that are contrary to God's truth.

(ix)Persons who acknowledge the true God and His ways are persecuted by others in the name of God.

(x)The ways of God are despised as men devise 'superior' ways of doing things. Their wisdom is said to be above that of the God of the Bible.

The beast is also said to possess seven heads and ten horns. The heads are interpreted by the angel and represent seven mountains on which the woman sits (Revelation 17:9).

MOUNTAIN - oros (Greek) - to rise, as lifting itself above the plain.

The woman, i.e. the system, therefore sits on seven mountains or seven structures that are above the plain. This suggests a particular location but she also sits upon many waters. How is this? The many waters refer to her presence in the nations of the world but the specific location of the seven mountains refer to the main source or the origin of the influence of this woman i.e. the home base.

Although the woman is in many countries, she has a main location or base where her doctrines are stored, sourced and practiced. This is similar to PERGAMOS which is described as where Satan dwells (Revelation 2:13).

Also for example:

(i) Islam is practised all over the world but Mecca in Saudi Arabia is a main location of the religion and is the birthplace of its founder.

(ii)Jehovah's Witnesses are all over the world but their main location or source of their doctrines is at Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.

N.B. PERGAMOS OR PERGAMUM was the first city in Asia where permission was granted for the worship of a living ruler Octavian Augustus 29 BC. Emperor worship thrived there. Also, it was the chief center of worship of AESCULAPIUS, the healing god. The mysteries of the Babylonian religion were also previously stored in a temple at PERGAMOS.

The main base or location of the woman will be identified later. The beast also has ten horns. They are identified as ten kings that have no kingdom but will receive power at the same time (one hour with) as the beast. (Revelation 17:12)

N.B. both the kingdom and the ruling king are called beast. (Revelation 17:10-11; Daniel 7:17, 23) The possible identity of these persons and kingdoms will also be given later.

Vs. 4 - The woman being arrayed in purple and scarlet shows the riches involved in this religious system (Revelation 18:16-17).

N.B. concerning the way of truth, the apostle Paul says, "...not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:" (I Corinthians 1:26)

It is the wise, mighty (powerful) and noble (of good birth) who have the wealth of the world and since they are not in the true faith, they populate Babylon and cause her to be filled with riches. This is clearly seen in the places of worship being adorned with gold, silver and other expensive materials and even some structures become wonders also.

For example:

(i) Large Hindu temples at Madura.

(ii) The golden Sikh's temple at Amritsar.

(iii) The elaborate structures of so-called Christian denominations - The Vatican, St. John the Divine Episcopal Cathedral in New York.

These and other places of worship are filled with images and ornaments made out of precious metals and stones. They are also expensively decorated and furnished. Lands and many other assets are also possessed by the woman.

N.B. the Roman Catholic Church is said to be one of the most wealthy institutions in the world and they are also said to be in control of a major portion of the world's gold supply.

The golden cup speaks of the splendor and impressive ways in which the doctrine (wine, vs. 2) of the woman is dispensed. The manner impresses many, causing them to drink and become drunk. This splendor attracts the proud and rich but also the fool. (Matthew 19:23; I Timothy 6:9; Jeremiah 51:7)


WHY IS SHE CALLED BABYLON ?

Vs. 5 - The name of the woman helps to identify her.

Just as Jerusalem was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, so too is the woman spiritually called Babylon as she has the spirit, attitude or character of Babylon. (Revelation 11:8; Jeremiah 23:14) Babylon's character and practices are hers also. It is not easy to identify her for what she really is as she does not go by the name Babylon. Hence, she is a mystery. It is because of this why many rate Babylon as godly and her adherents as great men of God. Evil is called good and good called evil, (Isaiah 5:20)

The harlot, Babylon, has many followers, hence they are called daughters i.e. other groups of people or systems that follow,pattern and also have the Babylonian character. Their doctrines fill the earth and are doctrines which are abominable i.e. disgusting in God's sight.

To be continued

Next: Who is Babylon and who are her daughters.

TOPIC: THE FOURTH BEAST

SUB-TOPIC: IDENTIFYING BABYLON -Part 2

Who is Babylon and who are her daughters?

It is normally taught that the Roman Church is the mother or Babylon the great, and that the Protestant Churches that came out of her are daughters i.e. the harlots. However, if the world situation is considered, then this view must be modified.

Where did the Roman doctrines come from?

Why are similar doctrines, symbols and practices found in the religions of the Americas, China, India, Japan and Africa prior to any Roman influence? Babylon ruled the world as the head of gold or first beast of Daniel 2, 7. (see Daniel's Visions I & II). Through its trade and commerce, Babylon spread her science, art, religion and beliefs over a large part of the ancient world. Hence, the features and personalities of the Babylonian religion are seen in the various cultures of the world but they may have variations and the names of the personalities may be changed.

Large volumes of literature were written by priests and stored in libraries and prescribed in detail the ceremonies of worship, forms of magic, divination and astrology. These were the mysteries of the Babylonian religion. They eventually came to be preserved in a temple at PERGAMOS or PERGAMUM. In 133 B.C. these mysteries were transferred to Rome and Rome came to be called New Babylon, as it became the center of the practice of the Babylonian religion.

It is highly possible that officials of the Roman Church are in control of these mysteries but the Roman Church, being made up of pagan and Christian doctrines and coming into existence long after the Babylonian doctrines had gone worldwide, could not be the mother of harlots i.e. Babylon the great. The Roman Church may be a big sister but the mother, Babylon the great, is the mysteries and wherever the pure form is stored and practiced. The system described by the mysteries is the source and hence mother of all forms of the religion seen worldwide.

Here are some of the features of the Babylonian religion as is seen in the religions of the world:

(i) The fertility rite is one of the most prominent features of the Babylonian religion and one aspect of it is most popular. This is the mother/child cult, which features a mother and child combination, which is worshiped. Originally known as ISHTAR or as some say SEMIRAMIS (mother goddess) and TAMMUZ (child god) in Babylon, they were otherwise identified in other nations:

Country	Mother	Child
Egypt	Isis	Horus
India	Isi	Iswara
Asia	Cybele	Dionysus (Or Deosius)
Greece	Aphrodite	Eros
Rome	Venus	Cupid

China, Japan and other parts of Africa also exhibit this mother/child worship, which is depicted as Mary and baby Jesus by the Roman Church. Even ancient Israel was influenced by this cult. (See Ezekiel 8:14-15;Jeremiah 7:18)

(ii) The Pine Cone is also a feature of the fertility rite and is a symbol of the power of regeneration. This symbol is traced to Tammuz of Babylon. It is seen in Mexico and Egypt as a symbol of their gods. It is also a symbol of the Greek god Dionysus and the Roman god Bacchus is seen in sculptures with a pine cone staff. A leader of the Roman Church(John Paul II) also carried a pine cone staff.

(iii)The Cross is a symbol of the sun and of Tammuz (TAU). This symbol was seen in ancient drawings found in Mesopotamia and was worshiped in ancient China. In Egypt it is called the Ankh and Swastika or Chakra in India. The power of life or death was said to be vested in it. This is one of the most prominent symbols of the Roman and many other churches.

(iv)The Serpent was also a symbol of the sun in the spiritual realm of things in the Babylonian system. The serpent is also prominent in the religions of Egypt, India, Central and South America and represented the sun god. There are serpentine columns in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome and the papal crest also has a serpent in it.

These are just some of the features of the Babylonian religion which have given rise to daughters in the various countries of the world. Other features are the practice of astrology and magic. The peacock is also a prominent symbol as is the solar disc or blaze also called halo. A triad (3) of God's or trinity is another feature and is a major doctrine of many churches.

Apart from the above features, the scriptures also describe Babylon in a particular way. The character of Babylon, anciently and prophetically described by the scriptures, will also help to identify Babylon the great and her harlots today.

Anciently

(a) According to the Babylonians, food described as unclean is fit for food. Daniel observed this practice and being aware of the restrictions God had placed on eating, refused food which could defile his body. (Daniel 1:1, 8; Leviticus 20:25; 11:l-end)

(b)Magic, sorceries, enchantments, astrology play a prominent part in the practices of Babylon as they seek after knowledge and information about the future. (Isaiah 47:1,12,13; Daniel 2:1-2)

(c)Graven images or idols are used in worship and are prominent in the Babylonian system. (Jeremiah 50:1-2; Daniel 3:1-6; Exodus 20:4-5)

(d)Honour due to God is appropriated by those in Babylon and they place titles upon themselves which are properly placed on God. (Daniel 4:29-31; Matthew 23:8-12; Psalm 111;9) Titles used are: Lord, Father, Your Worship,Your Worshipful Master, Master, Reverend, Holy Father.

(e)God has declared certain things as holy but Babylon profanes these things and reduce them to ordinary use. (Daniel 5:1-4,17-23; Exodus 30:25-29; 31:12-17)

(f)Covetousness is the driving force of those in Babylon and the system encourages seeking the treasures of this world, rather than the Kingdom of God and His righteousness (Jeremiah 51:13; I John 2:15-17; I Timothy 6:9-10).

Prophetically

(1)The harlot and her daughters influence the leaders and rulers of the nations (kings). They bow to her wishes as they make laws to support the harlot's doctrines. She uses governments to dominate the world. (Revelation 17:1-2,15; 18:3) For example, laws supporting Sunday sacredness (Sunday Laws). Various religious festivals observed by various cultures are public or national holidays.

(2)The harlot is responsible for the persecution of the prophets and saints of God (Revelation 17:6; 18:24; Matthew 5:11-12) e.g. the prophets and saints of God were persecuted and killed as they proclaimed God's truth but met opposition from those who were contrary to God's way (Babylon). Those who influence or carry out persecution are, hence, a part of Babylon and her daughters.

(3)Sorcery is used by the harlot and those in the system to gain success in business. Spells, oils of success, charms, pendants and rings are employed to gain commercial success. The merchants of the earth also benefit from the idolatrous festivals and activities supported by the system e.g. birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, Divali, Gion, Idal-Adha etc. (Revelation 18:15,19, 23; Acts 19:23-27)

Can the features above (i-iv, a-f, 1-3) be found in the religious organizations of the world, both in the past and at present? Do you believe in or participate in the practices described above?

Wherever these practices and features are found, it is the system of Babylon the great and her harlots, which are at, work.

God is calling for all to:

"... come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4)

To be continued.

Next – Babylon and her daughters persecutes the saints.

 

[sparow]

Revelation was written in Greek.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I presume the word "Holy" is the problem. John did not use the word holy; holy is an English word that today is able to embrace the notions of homosexuality blended with extreme Piousness, purple shirts and white collars.

I would expect John to be referring to Hebrew meanings like sacred, sanctified, Temple and sanctuary. I notice in my interlinear Bible there are two Greek words preceding city, one is rendered Holy, the other is ignored.

 

[ewq1938]

I presume the word "Holy" is the problem.

It isn't a problem if one goes by the Greek definition of it.

G40
ἅγιος
hagios
Thayer Definition:
1) most holy thing, a saint
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from hagos (an awful thing) [compare G53, G2282]

Same word used here:

Mat_1:18 NowG1161 theG3588 birthG1083 of JesusG2424 ChristG5547 wasG2258 on this wise:G3779 When asG1063 hisG846 motherG3384 MaryG3137 was espousedG3423 to Joseph,G2501 beforeG4250 theyG846 came together,G4905 she was found with childG2147 G2192 G1722 G1064 ofG1537 the HolyG40 Ghost.G4151

 

[safswan]

TOPIC: THE FOURTH BEAST

SUB-TOPIC: IDENTIFYING BABYLON -Part 2

Who is Babylon and who are her daughters?

It is normally taught that the Roman Church is the mother or Babylon the great, and that the Protestant Churches that came out of her are daughters i.e. the harlots. However, if the world situation is considered, then this view must be modified.

Where did the Roman doctrines come from?

Why are similar doctrines, symbols and practices found in the religions of the Americas, China, India, Japan and Africa prior to any Roman influence? Babylon ruled the world as the head of gold or first beast of Daniel 2, 7. (see Daniel's Visions I & II). Through its trade and commerce, Babylon spread her science, art, religion and beliefs over a large part of the ancient world. Hence, the features and personalities of the Babylonian religion are seen in the various cultures of the world but they may have variations and the names of the personalities may be changed.

Large volumes of literature were written by priests and stored in libraries and prescribed in detail the ceremonies of worship, forms of magic, divination and astrology. These were the mysteries of the Babylonian religion. They eventually came to be preserved in a temple at PERGAMOS or PERGAMUM. In 133 B.C. these mysteries were transferred to Rome and Rome came to be called New Babylon, as it became the center of the practice of the Babylonian religion.

It is highly possible that officials of the Roman Church are in control of these mysteries but the Roman Church, being made up of pagan and Christian doctrines and coming into existence long after the Babylonian doctrines had gone worldwide, could not be the mother of harlots i.e. Babylon the great. The Roman Church may be a big sister but the mother, Babylon the great, is the mysteries and wherever the pure form is stored and practiced. The system described by the mysteries is the source and hence mother of all forms of the religion seen worldwide.

Here are some of the features of the Babylonian religion as is seen in the religions of the world:

(i) The fertility rite is one of the most prominent features of the Babylonian religion and one aspect of it is most popular. This is the mother/child cult, which features a mother and child combination, which is worshiped. Originally known as ISHTAR or as some say SEMIRAMIS (mother goddess) and TAMMUZ (child god) in Babylon, they were otherwise identified in other nations:

Country	Mother	Child
Egypt	Isis	Horus
India	Isi	Iswara
Asia	Cybele	Dionysus (Or Deosius)
Greece	Aphrodite	Eros
Rome	Venus	Cupid

China, Japan and other parts of Africa also exhibit this mother/child worship, which is depicted as Mary and baby Jesus by the Roman Church. Even ancient Israel was influenced by this cult. (See Ezekiel 8:14-15;Jeremiah 7:18)

(ii) The Pine Cone is also a feature of the fertility rite and is a symbol of the power of regeneration. This symbol is traced to Tammuz of Babylon. It is seen in Mexico and Egypt as a symbol of their gods. It is also a symbol of the Greek god Dionysus and the Roman god Bacchus is seen in sculptures with a pine cone staff. A leader of the Roman Church(John Paul II) also carried a pine cone staff.

(iii)The Cross is a symbol of the sun and of Tammuz (TAU). This symbol was seen in ancient drawings found in Mesopotamia and was worshiped in ancient China. In Egypt it is called the Ankh and Swastika or Chakra in India. The power of life or death was said to be vested in it. This is one of the most prominent symbols of the Roman and many other churches.

(iv)The Serpent was also a symbol of the sun in the spiritual realm of things in the Babylonian system. The serpent is also prominent in the religions of Egypt, India, Central and South America and represented the sun god. There are serpentine columns in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome and the papal crest also has a serpent in it.

These are just some of the features of the Babylonian religion which have given rise to daughters in the various countries of the world. Other features are the practice of astrology and magic. The peacock is also a prominent symbol as is the solar disc or blaze also called halo. A triad (3) of God's or trinity is another feature and is a major doctrine of many churches.

Apart from the above features, the scriptures also describe Babylon in a particular way. The character of Babylon, anciently and prophetically described by the scriptures, will also help to identify Babylon the great and her harlots today.

Anciently

(a) According to the Babylonians, food described as unclean is fit for food. Daniel observed this practice and being aware of the restrictions God had placed on eating, refused food which could defile his body. (Daniel 1:1, 8; Leviticus 20:25; 11:l-end)

(b)Magic, sorceries, enchantments, astrology play a prominent part in the practices of Babylon as they seek after knowledge and information about the future. (Isaiah 47:1,12,13; Daniel 2:1-2)

(c)Graven images or idols are used in worship and are prominent in the Babylonian system. (Jeremiah 50:1-2; Daniel 3:1-6; Exodus 20:4-5)

(d)Honour due to God is appropriated by those in Babylon and they place titles upon themselves which are properly placed on God. (Daniel 4:29-31; Matthew 23:8-12; Psalm 111;9) Titles used are: Lord, Father, Your Worship,Your Worshipful Master, Master, Reverend, Holy Father.

(e)God has declared certain things as holy but Babylon profanes these things and reduce them to ordinary use. (Daniel 5:1-4,17-23; Exodus 30:25-29; 31:12-17)

(f)Covetousness is the driving force of those in Babylon and the system encourages seeking the treasures of this world, rather than the Kingdom of God and His righteousness (Jeremiah 51:13; I John 2:15-17; I Timothy 6:9-10).

Prophetically

(1)The harlot and her daughters influence the leaders and rulers of the nations (kings). They bow to her wishes as they make laws to support the harlot's doctrines. She uses governments to dominate the world. (Revelation 17:1-2,15; 18:3) For example, laws supporting Sunday sacredness (Sunday Laws). Various religious festivals observed by various cultures are public or national holidays.

(2)The harlot is responsible for the persecution of the prophets and saints of God (Revelation 17:6; 18:24; Matthew 5:11-12) e.g. the prophets and saints of God were persecuted and killed as they proclaimed God's truth but met opposition from those who were contrary to God's way (Babylon). Those who influence or carry out persecution are, hence, a part of Babylon and her daughters.

(3)Sorcery is used by the harlot and those in the system to gain success in business. Spells, oils of success, charms, pendants and rings are employed to gain commercial success. The merchants of the earth also benefit from the idolatrous festivals and activities supported by the system e.g. birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, Divali, Gion, Idal-Adha etc. (Revelation 18:15,19, 23; Acts 19:23-27)

Can the features above (i-iv, a-f, 1-3) be found in the religious organizations of the world, both in the past and at present? Do you believe in or participate in the practices described above?

Wherever these practices and features are found, it is the system of Babylon the great and her harlots, which are at, work.

God is calling for all to:

"... come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4)

To be continued.

Next – Babylon and her daughters persecutes the saints.

BABYLON AND HER DAUGHTERS PERSECUTES THE SAINTS.

Vs. 6, 7 - To be drunken with the blood of the saints refers to the pleasure, wrongly experienced by Babylon in persecuting the saints. As Jesus said:

".. .whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." (John 16:2)

Because the system of the harlot was contrary to the belief of true Christians, they were persecuted by those whom the harlot influenced. Governments and religion were inseparable in many cultures and in the Roman Empire. The emperor was the chief priest of their religious system. Worship was to be given to the emperor and also to Rome as a goddess. Many Christians would not bow to these demands and they were killed.

As the Roman Church gained prominence, they also influenced the governing authorities to support and defend their teachings and those who opposed the Roman doctrines, including true Christians, were persecuted and killed. It is said that many were killed by the Roman Church's inquisition.

INQUISITION - an office set up by the papacy to identify heretics or those contrary to their doctrine.

Also, in other cultures Christianity is suppressed and persecuted, and is illegal in some Moslem countries.

When a person dies for a cause, that person is called a martyr and many have died because they would not deny Christ or His teachings. N.B. - Even the protestant reformers: Martin Luther, John Calvin etc, persecuted those who did not agree with them. They too are a part of the system of Babylon.

John wondered or marveled greatly at the woman, not admiring in the sense of being pleased, but he was amazed about her activities. The Angel told John he would allow him to understand more about the woman and also about the beast, which carries the woman. He will now explain what the symbols mean and the nature of the beast is revealed.

Vs. 8 - John is seeing the fourth beast in the later stages of its existence i.e. he is being shown the judgment of the harlot (Revelation 17:1). The beast is not being described as he existed in John's time but John is seeing him in the future, near the time of Christ's return.

The beast was, but now is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Of the Lord Jesus, the scriptures say:

"...the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

This shows Jesus' existence and reign never ends. This is not so with the beast. The beast was once dominant (during John's life) but is now dormant (as seen in the vision now) and will once again arise to be dominant. Hence, the beast was, is not and shall ascend. Coming from the bottomless pit shows the source of its power, which is from Satan. (Revelation 13:1-2)

Over the years, the Roman Empire's control has varied from being very dominant and organized with a revered emperor to, being loose states joined by treaties with no dominant head. This is how John was seeing the beast, but during his life the empire was still organized and exercised control over the civilized world. The beast will once again rise with power to form an organized system to control the world but this system will not prevail but will be destroyed (go into perdition). Those on the earth whose names are not in the Book of Life will continue to wonder or be in amazement concerning the beast as it rises to power.

THE BOOK OF LIFE - a figurative expression of the list of persons who will gain eternal life.( See Revelation 22:19; Exodus 32:32-33; Psalm 69:28)

Vs. 9 - The woman sits on many waters i.e. her teaching and influence is present in many nations of the world.The woman sits on the beast and hence the beast is the nations and people of the earth (Revelation 17:1,3,15). The woman is also sitting on seven mountains which is the interpretation of the seven heads of the beast. These are literal mountains or hills and cannot be interpreted again to mean something else. The seven heads are seven mountains or hills on which the woman sits i.e. a specific location is being identified. Revelation 17:18 reveals that the woman is a city that rules over the kings of the earth. This reigning appears to be current i.e. during John's time as the Angel is now explaining the mystery to John. This city must be Rome which ruled the earth in his time.

Just as Jerusalem represents the character and spirit of the nation or system of Israel, being the center of activities, so the city of Rome represents the center or home base of the harlot's system, having the character of the woman. Hence, the city is the woman as the woman's character or spirit is upon the city.(Matthew 23: 37-38) Rome also fills the specification of having seven mountains or hills and is referred to as the 'city of seven hills' at times. The hills are called; the Palatine,Capitoline,Aventine,Caelian,Esquiline,Viminal and Ouirinal.

Vs. 10,11,12,13 - Many identify the seven heads of the beast with the seven kings of vs. 10. The scripture does not make this association however, and in fact there are to be eight kings. N.B. the kings follow one after the other and are not contemporaneous i.e. existing at the same time. The seven heads are existing at the same time and as the scripture says, represents seven mountains on which the harlot sits or the location where she is based.

The kings are the leaders or rulers of the beast or kingdom or system of government. N.B. the beast is not, and hence although a system is in place, it is not as dominant or organized as when, 'it was'. When the eighth king comes, he will eventually be in control of an organized and dominant world ruling kingdom and this is why he is called the beast also.

When John sees the beast, it is at a point where five kings have fallen or have already exercised power. The sixth king is in power and the seventh is to come. He will continue in power for a short space or a little. The eighth king will come to power and then when the kingdom or system is organized and dominant, he is called the beast, as he will exercise more power than the others. However, it is he who will go to destruction even at the coming of the Lord (Revelation 19:20). N.B. he is the final king of the fourth beast before the coming of Christ.

N.B. John at this time is not seeing the beast as it was in his time but at a time close to the end and in John's future.

Many make the error of thinking that it was in John's time, that five are fallen and they interpret this in many ways. However these kings are rulers in the final stages of the fourth world-ruling kingdom. They rule one after the other and it is at the coming of the Lord that the fourth kingdom will end and the eighth king or beast destroyed.

To be continued.

Next – The interpretation of the eight kings and ten horns.

 

[safswan]

BABYLON AND HER DAUGHTERS PERSECUTES THE SAINTS.

Vs. 6, 7 - To be drunken with the blood of the saints refers to the pleasure, wrongly experienced by Babylon in persecuting the saints. As Jesus said:

".. .whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." (John 16:2)

Because the system of the harlot was contrary to the belief of true Christians, they were persecuted by those whom the harlot influenced. Governments and religion were inseparable in many cultures and in the Roman Empire. The emperor was the chief priest of their religious system. Worship was to be given to the emperor and also to Rome as a goddess. Many Christians would not bow to these demands and they were killed.

As the Roman Church gained prominence, they also influenced the governing authorities to support and defend their teachings and those who opposed the Roman doctrines, including true Christians, were persecuted and killed. It is said that many were killed by the Roman Church's inquisition.

INQUISITION - an office set up by the papacy to identify heretics or those contrary to their doctrine.

Also, in other cultures Christianity is suppressed and persecuted, and is illegal in some Moslem countries.

When a person dies for a cause, that person is called a martyr and many have died because they would not deny Christ or His teachings. N.B. - Even the protestant reformers: Martin Luther, John Calvin etc, persecuted those who did not agree with them. They too are a part of the system of Babylon.

John wondered or marveled greatly at the woman, not admiring in the sense of being pleased, but he was amazed about her activities. The Angel told John he would allow him to understand more about the woman and also about the beast, which carries the woman. He will now explain what the symbols mean and the nature of the beast is revealed.

Vs. 8 - John is seeing the fourth beast in the later stages of its existence i.e. he is being shown the judgment of the harlot (Revelation 17:1). The beast is not being described as he existed in John's time but John is seeing him in the future, near the time of Christ's return.

The beast was, but now is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Of the Lord Jesus, the scriptures say:

"...the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

This shows Jesus' existence and reign never ends. This is not so with the beast. The beast was once dominant (during John's life) but is now dormant (as seen in the vision now) and will once again arise to be dominant. Hence, the beast was, is not and shall ascend. Coming from the bottomless pit shows the source of its power, which is from Satan. (Revelation 13:1-2)

Over the years, the Roman Empire's control has varied from being very dominant and organized with a revered emperor to, being loose states joined by treaties with no dominant head. This is how John was seeing the beast, but during his life the empire was still organized and exercised control over the civilized world. The beast will once again rise with power to form an organized system to control the world but this system will not prevail but will be destroyed (go into perdition). Those on the earth whose names are not in the Book of Life will continue to wonder or be in amazement concerning the beast as it rises to power.

THE BOOK OF LIFE - a figurative expression of the list of persons who will gain eternal life.( See Revelation 22:19; Exodus 32:32-33; Psalm 69:28)

Vs. 9 - The woman sits on many waters i.e. her teaching and influence is present in many nations of the world.The woman sits on the beast and hence the beast is the nations and people of the earth (Revelation 17:1,3,15). The woman is also sitting on seven mountains which is the interpretation of the seven heads of the beast. These are literal mountains or hills and cannot be interpreted again to mean something else. The seven heads are seven mountains or hills on which the woman sits i.e. a specific location is being identified. Revelation 17:18 reveals that the woman is a city that rules over the kings of the earth. This reigning appears to be current i.e. during John's time as the Angel is now explaining the mystery to John. This city must be Rome which ruled the earth in his time.

Just as Jerusalem represents the character and spirit of the nation or system of Israel, being the center of activities, so the city of Rome represents the center or home base of the harlot's system, having the character of the woman. Hence, the city is the woman as the woman's character or spirit is upon the city.(Matthew 23: 37-38) Rome also fills the specification of having seven mountains or hills and is referred to as the 'city of seven hills' at times. The hills are called; the Palatine,Capitoline,Aventine,Caelian,Esquiline,Viminal and Ouirinal.

Vs. 10,11,12,13 - Many identify the seven heads of the beast with the seven kings of vs. 10. The scripture does not make this association however, and in fact there are to be eight kings. N.B. the kings follow one after the other and are not contemporaneous i.e. existing at the same time. The seven heads are existing at the same time and as the scripture says, represents seven mountains on which the harlot sits or the location where she is based.

The kings are the leaders or rulers of the beast or kingdom or system of government. N.B. the beast is not, and hence although a system is in place, it is not as dominant or organized as when, 'it was'. When the eighth king comes, he will eventually be in control of an organized and dominant world ruling kingdom and this is why he is called the beast also.

When John sees the beast, it is at a point where five kings have fallen or have already exercised power. The sixth king is in power and the seventh is to come. He will continue in power for a short space or a little. The eighth king will come to power and then when the kingdom or system is organized and dominant, he is called the beast, as he will exercise more power than the others. However, it is he who will go to destruction even at the coming of the Lord (Revelation 19:20). N.B. he is the final king of the fourth beast before the coming of Christ.

N.B. John at this time is not seeing the beast as it was in his time but at a time close to the end and in John's future.

Many make the error of thinking that it was in John's time, that five are fallen and they interpret this in many ways. However these kings are rulers in the final stages of the fourth world-ruling kingdom. They rule one after the other and it is at the coming of the Lord that the fourth kingdom will end and the eighth king or beast destroyed.

To be continued.

Next – The interpretation of the eight kings and ten horns.

THE INTERPRETATION OF THE 8 KINGS AND 10 HORNS

1.Some say the seven kings are the seven powers that have oppressed God's people:Egypt,Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece being the five that are past, with Rome being the sixth and Papal Rome the seventh (or Christendom) and the eighth not accounted for or called a revived Roman Empire commonly identified as the European Union. This is clearly erroneous as the beasts of Revelation are the final stages of the fourth beast that is Rome. Kings in this system are ruling in the fourth world ruling kingdom and cannot be any other kingdom.

2.Others say the kings are seven revivals of the Roman Empire led by rulers who dominated during their time. They are Justinian, Charlemagne, Otto the Great, Hofenstaufen Emperors, Charles V, The Austrian Kingdom, Napoleon (others add Hitler). This is again erroneous as during the rule of the seven kings the beast is not dominant as it "is not". It is only at the coming of the eighth king that the kingdom becomes revived or organized and dominant again. (Revelation 17:8)

3.Still others say the seven kings are seven religious systems of the world namely: Atheism, Heathenism, Judaism, Eastern Mysticism, Islam, Christianity, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. This again is erroneous as it is women who represent the religious systems of the world. The woman of Revelation 12 being the true way and the woman of Revelation 17 being the false way. Her daughters are the many branches of false religion and surely number more than seven.

These and other interpretations are erroneous as they associate the seven heads with seven kings when the scripture does not make this association and in fact there are eight kings not seven.

As the eighth king gains power, ten other kings or rulers also gain power. They would be rulers of ten divisions of the beast and as the system is organized, they along with the eighth king (also called the beast) receive authority at the same time i.e. one hour with the beast. It is at this time that the fourth beast is truly revived as the kingdom becomes organized to rule and dominate the earth.

The ten horns are in agreement (have one mind) and they are united with the eighth king. He is the one who directs them as they submit to his authority (give their power and strength to him)

WHO ARE THE EIGHT KINGS AND TEN HORNS?

The identity of these rulers is not easily discerned and much error has been made over the years trying to identify them. There are some clear characteristics which must be considered before any interpretation is made. Also, with a prophecy of this type that foretells the future, i.e. yet to be fulfilled, the identities of the characters involved may only be discerned after fulfillment or close to the point of fulfillment.

POINTS TO NOTE

(1)The term beast refers to both the kingdom and the king ruling at the height or most dominant time during the kingdom's existence, just as was seen in Daniel. (Daniel 7:17, 23; Revelation 17:1,15) The eighth king is described in the same terms as the kingdom seeing that all that is accomplished or experienced is common to both. (Revelation 17:8,11)

(2)The eighth king, being of the seven, refers to him as following in a line of succession i.e. the kings rule one after the other (five fallen, one is, other is not yet come) and not concurrently. He is not one of the seven returning to rule but he is belonging to or ruling in a line of succession. He is the eighth one to rule the kingdom or system of things.

(3)The seventh king is said to continue a short space. This may refer to the time of his reign. This may or may not be in relation to the reign of the other kings. However, it may also be translated otherwise.

CONTINUE - MENO (Greek) - to stay (in a given place, state, relation)
SHORT (space) - OLIGOS (Greek) - puny (in extent, degree, number, duration, value).

Hence, this is a possible reference to the power that will be exercised by the seventh king. He will not be dominant, as the kingdom has not come with power as yet.

(4)When the eighth king gains power in the system previously ruled by the seven before him, ten other kings or rulers will also gain power over ten kingdoms or regions. This would indicate the putting in place of a new system for eleven leaders to be installed at the same time and who previously were not ruling this system,or they would gain greater power in a system which was already in place. The ten kings are in agreement and give their power to the beast i.e. they support him and he has authority over them. This is similar to how Herod, Pilate, Felix, Festus, Agrippa - although rulers in the Roman system - had to answer to the Caesars.

To identify the fulfillment of this portion of the prophecy and to identify the beast we must look for:

(i)The coming of a dominant world ruling system, rising from a previously existing system that did not have such power.

(ii)A system, which previously had seven rulers and the eighth coming to power.

(iii)The system will be comprised of one supreme ruler and ten others who are under his authority. N.B. these could be rulers of nations or groups of nations.

(iv) They are united in their actions and aims and are installed as leaders (rulers) at the same time (one hour) or they gain great power at the same time and the rule is worldwide. (Revelation 17:1-3,15)

As we examine the events of the world, we must look out for these features. Any system, which may be a possible fulfillment of the prophecy, must conform to these features. As soon as an upcoming system diverts from having these features then it has not fulfilled the prophecy.

Vs. 14 - 18 - The union of the beast and the ten kings will make war with the Lord Jesus. They have been deceived into believing they can fight against the Lord, called the Lamb. (Revelation 5:6; John 1:29; Revelation 16:14; 19:11-20) This will occur at the time of His coming as He is accompanied by the saints who had been caught up to meet Him and His holy Angels. (Revelation 19:7-8; 15:6; Matthew 24:31)

The ten kings (horns) will eventually turn against Babylon and will openly bring her down and destroy the system that she represents. After using her to deceive the people and to assist in putting their system in place, they no longer need her services. The veiled references to the one to be worshiped will now become plain.

Even though the systems put in place are ungodly, God has allowed them to be established so His will may be accomplished. God will allow man to make his own choices and go his own way until the time comes for God to judge the world. All that has been predicted in prophecies in the scriptures will come to pass as man does that which God in His foreknowledge knew he would have done.

Again, the woman represents the city and the city the woman as the character of the woman is seen in the city. The city, which ruled over the kings of the earth in John's time, was Rome. This is where the Babylonian mysteries were stored at the time.Hence mystery Babylon the mother of harlots.

 

[anetazo]

Revelation chapter 17. Babylon is confusion. It's all nations in one world political system. Second thessalonians chapter 2, son of perdition, satan, will come to Jerusalem, 6th trump. He will go into temple of God, and claim to be God. Satan is coming 6th trump as antichrist. The one world political system receives deadly wound. Antichrist heals deadly wound, 6th trump. By absorbing nations back in the system. It's now a one world religious system. Its 5 month period, revelation 9:5 to document. Mark of beast, is to be deceived by antichrist lies and deception. Ephesians chapter 6, you need gospel armour on, its knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Many people will be deceived by antichrist near future. Ephesians chapter 6 is the answer.