Jehovah's Witnesses - Is anything wrong with it?

[1stcenturylady]

I cor 13

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Revelation 3:20 ESV

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Note: in context the last verse was written to Christians, not non-believers.

The above texts show that our relationship with Jesus is personal. And, that glass darkly has to do with not knowing ourselves fully.

Right, when the perfect has come. Don't you know at that time they had all the gospels, the epistles AND the apostles there to teach them what they meant, so "the perfect" wasn't the Word. It tells you what it meant at the end of the chapter - when we see God face to face LITERALLY! Do you believe in the second coming of Christ? THAT IS WHEN THE PERFECT COMES.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I believe the same about Jesus as you do. I just let God do the judging if their smaller understanding of God/Jesus is enough to keep them out of heaven. Just because their understanding is like a piece of sand on a beach, and ours is a little larger grain of sand. God is the whole beach!

Your verses do not depict what the JW's and Mormons teach. We see clearly what those verses are referring to in other parts of scripture, because all the apostles were battling them - the Gnostics. This is what the apostles were talking about: 1 John 4:1-3 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Do the Mormons and JW's teach that Jesus DID NOT COME IN THE FLESH? No, but the Gnostics did. What's more that spirit of Antichrist is still in the Church, but not in the Mormon and JW's - interesting. It is called white-washed grace. It is a perversion of grace. Paul spoke against it too. Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" How many times have you heard it preached, Jesus saves us from past, present, and FUTURE sins? Why did Jesus give us the Holy Spirit to empower us NOT to sin, if it didn't matter. Just believe in Jesus and your future willful sins are automatically covered. Paul, was NOT teaching that. He even said "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?"

The JW's deny the physical Resurrection of Jesus. And, by denying that Jesus is God(not of ignorance, but a positive denial that Jesus is God) they are in-effect denying that Jesus as God came in the flesh(Col 2:9 makes this connection).

Also, the JW's gospel is not one of faith, but that of works, thus another gospel as Gal 1:6-10 condems.

"For in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9).

"One day every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Philippians 2:11)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Right, when the perfect has come. Don't you know at that time they had all the gospels, the epistles AND the apostles there to teach them what they meant, so "the perfect" wasn't the Word. It tells you what it meant at the end of the chapter - when we see God face to face LITERALLY! Do you believe in the second coming of Christ? THAT IS WHEN THE PERFECT COMES.

I believe that Jesus is the Perfect.

1 John 3:2King James Version (KJV)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Ephesians 4:11-13King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Off subject: Have you ever read the Epistle of Barnabas all the way through? I love it, and even believe it is the 28th canonical book of the NT. Barnabas was an apostle, and some of the things in it are so profound, it has to be inspired.

I read it years ago, but don't remember much from it.

Is this passage from it a false prophecy? Why or Why not?

Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.
The Epistle of Barnabas (translation J.B. Lightfoot)

I will set this one up as a new thread.

Is this passage from it a false prophecy? Why or Why not?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Off subject: Have you ever read the Epistle of Barnabas all the way through? I love it, and even believe it is the 28th canonical book of the NT. Barnabas was an apostle, and some of the things in it are so profound, it has to be inspired.

I read it years ago, but don't remember much from it.

Is this passage from it a false prophecy? Why or Why not?

Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.
The Epistle of Barnabas (translation J.B. Lightfoot)

I will set this one up as a new thread.Is this passage from it a false prophecy? Why or Why not?

 

[1stcenturylady]

The JW's deny the physical Resurrection of Jesus. And, by denying that Jesus is God(not of ignorance, but a positive denial that Jesus is God) they are in-effect denying that Jesus as God came in the flesh(Col 2:9 makes this connection).

Also, the JW's gospel is not one of faith, but that of works, thus another gospel as Gal 1:6-10 condems.

"For in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9).

"One day every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Philippians 2:11)

Actually, the Watchtower organization says that Jesus did not rise from the dead in the same body he died in.

That is a big difference than implying Jesus did not rise from the dead AT ALL!

These false implications are what I hate.

 

[DeaconDean]

Actually, the Watchtower organization says that Jesus did not rise from the dead in the same body he died in.

That is a big difference than implying Jesus did not rise from the dead AT ALL!

These false implications are what I hate.

You are correct.

They teach His body went into the grave, but His "spirit" arose.

They albut deny Jesus' appearance to, and the actions that Thomas did.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

thanks for the correction

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are correct.

They teach His body went into the grave, but His "spirit" arose.

They albut deny Jesus' appearance to, and the actions that Thomas did.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I didn't know they believed that, but next time they come to the door I'll have to ask them how did Jesus eat after the resurrection if it was just His spirit.

When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I didn't know they believed that, but next time they come to the door I'll have to ask them how did Jesus eat after the resurrection if it was just His spirit.

When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

If Jesus did not raise in the same body, I would like them explain what Josephus wrote, "Jesus was born and lived in Palestine. He was born, supposedly, to a virgin and had an earthly father who was a carpenter. He was a teacher who taught that through repentance and belief, all followers would become brothers and sisters. He led the Jews away from their beliefs. He was a wise man who claimed to be God and the Messiah. He had unusual magical powers and performed miraculous deeds. He healed the lame. He accurately predicted the future. He was persecuted by the Jews for what He said, betrayed by Judah Iskarioto. He was beaten with rods, forced to drink vinegar and wear a crown of thorns. He was crucified on the eve of the Passover and this crucifixion occurred under the direction of Pontius Pilate, during the time of Tiberius. On the day of His crucifixion, the sky grew dark and there was an earthquake. Afterward, He was buried in a tomb and the tomb was later found to be empty. He appeared to His disciples resurrected from the grave and showed them His wounds. These disciples then told others Jesus was resurrected and ascended into heaven. Jesus’ disciples and followers upheld a high moral code. One of them was named Matthai. The disciples were also persecuted for their faith but were martyred without changing their claims. They met regularly to worship Jesus, even after His death." Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible? | Cold Case Christianity

John 2:18-22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

18 So the Jews replied to Him, “What sign of authority will You show us for doing these things?”

19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days.”

20 Therefore the Jews said, “This sanctuary took 46 years to build, and will You raise it up in three days?”

21 But He was speaking about the sanctuary of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. And they believed the Scripture and the statement Jesus had made.

When Jesus was on the Cross, the disciples where hiding and scared for their lives. Something happened that made them willing to die for it. If Jesus only rose as a spirit, that would not have happened.

 

[DeaconDean]

I didn't know they believed that, but next time they come to the door I'll have to ask them how did Jesus eat after the resurrection if it was just His spirit.

When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

What about when Thomas stuck his hand in Jesus' side?

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." -Jn. 20:27 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I had a friend who was a Jehovah Witness when I was in elementary school and middle school. Not to sound cold, but the family was very strange. Her and her younger brother were able to come to my house to "study" but never play. We had to read their bible books. When my guinea pig died and she helped me bury it, she did it in a hidden way because she said we need to hide it from satanists.

I remember they were against sharing blood. They didn't do birthdays or Christmas but the dad set aside a day where they all shared presents since they didn't get to celebrate the other days. ???

The dad ended up leaving the mother later, and then my friend got pregnant at 13. We're all human so I'm not judging that specifically, just showing the family kept claiming to be holier than thou but were negative and didn't lead what I call a Christian example.

The older brothers were super cruel to my friend, she was afraid of them. She had to be real careful if she was eating soup or something hot because they'd sneak behind her and slam her face into the hot liquid. Neither parent was friendly and both acted depressed - they would drop her off but didn't want to come inside our house. Her mom got mad at us for letting her watch Terminator 2 at my house but they watched the Star Wars movies like it was a huge event. I remember when one came out in theatre, they loved those movies.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

thanks all

 

[DeaconDean]

I had a friend who was a Jehovah Witness when I was in elementary school and middle school. Not to sound cold, but the family was very strange. Her and her younger brother were able to come to my house to "study" but never play. We had to read their bible books. When my guinea pig died and she helped me bury it, she did it in a hidden way because she said we need to hide it from satanists.

I remember they were against sharing blood. They didn't do birthdays or Christmas but the dad set aside a day where they all shared presents since they didn't get to celebrate the other days. ???

The dad ended up leaving the mother later, and then my friend got pregnant at 13. We're all human so I'm not judging that specifically, just showing the family kept claiming to be holier than thou but were negative and didn't lead what I call a Christian example.

The older brothers were super cruel to my friend, she was afraid of them. She had to be real careful if she was eating soup or something hot because they'd sneak behind her and slam her face into the hot liquid. Neither parent was friendly and both acted depressed - they would drop her off but didn't want to come inside our house. Her mom got mad at us for letting her watch Terminator 2 at my house but they watched the Star Wars movies like it was a huge event. I remember when one came out in theatre, they loved those movies.

Back n the late 1960's, my mother was having a miscarriage. She was hemorrhaging very bad. Dad took her to the hospital where they gave her a transfusion. She ended up ;osing the baby.

I still to this day, almost 50 years ago our neighbor, a JW, telling my Mom that she was going to hell because she had a transfusion.

It wasn't long after that, they moved away.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Back n the late 1960's, my mother was having a miscarriage. She was hemorrhaging very bad. Dad took her to the hospital where they gave her a transfusion. She ended up ;osing the baby.

I still to this day, almost 50 years ago our neighbor, a JW, telling my Mom that she was going to hell because she had a transfusion.

It wasn't long after that, they moved away.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Some legalist sects have some weird ideas. I heard a pastor say, "If you wear jewelry, it proves you don't love Jesus."

 

[DeaconDean]

Some legalist sects have some weird ideas. I heard a pastor say, "If you wear jewelry, it proves you don't love Jesus."

You know, that's funny.

When I was growing up, in the Church of God it was darn near a sin for women to wear pants, makeup, or jewelry. (weeding rings being the exception)

Now, its common.

What changed?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You know, that's funny.

When I was growing up, in the Church of God it was darn near a sin for women to wear pants, makeup, or jewelry. (weeding rings being the exception)

Now, its common.

What changed?

God Bless

Till all are one.

There you couldn't even wear wedding rings, but some did in mixed religion families. Of course, they didn't love Jesus as much as the rest of them. LOL

 

[DeaconDean]

There you couldn't even wear wedding rings, but some did in mixed religion families. Of course, they didn't love Jesus as much as the rest of them. LOL

It has been real nice talking to you.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It has been real nice talking to you.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You too. Time for bed.

 

[smalltowngirl86]

From personal experience, it is awkward trying to invite your friend to your birthday party and them saying they were not allowed to do birthdays. Maybe she was fine with it all, but maybe deep down she was depressed? Actually, recently now as an adult, I saw she admitted having depression on her social media...oh, what a coincidence?

Yes, it is good to teach your child not to be spoiled with materialism and all that, but it felt as if part of her childhood was being denied. I also think it's hard these days to gather people together, now as an adult in this fast paced way of life, I really miss those birthdays---how often do you get together with friends nowadays in person? all these things we judged, we now take for granted we even had.

Also, I recall a childhood (almost like a cousin) friend was dating a girl of this denomination, and her parents forced them to break up (he wasn't even a bad kid: didn't smoke, do drugs, didn't party or anything like that---she was probably in far better hands than with most boys in school). I think at the time, he even did church choir? but nope. I also heard other stories online about people who grew up as a JW, but were literally cast aside from all relations. Even the parents toss aside the children as if they are strangers....it sounded quite emotionally abusive.

Also, I recall hearing that they alone think they are special enough to go to heaven, and only a certain particular number of them.

Also, I say Also way too much! ha

I am not a Jehovah's Witness but I did study the bible with them for awhile. The reason that that child was not allowed to go to your birthday party was because Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays.