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Jehova Witness and Church of Scientology

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by gwyyn, Jun 3, 2002.

  1. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Indeed I do, but regretably I recently moved and I have a library that will take months to get unpacked and straightened out. I am doing a little at a time and it is very slow. But as soon as I come across this stuff I will send you. Any way, I think that same stuff is available online. Try a search and let me know if you find a site.

     

     
  2. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Hey gerry I found some info on what you were talking about. Russel wife divorced him and sued him for alimony and won. Then while he was under oath at another hearing he said that his wife did'nt divorce him or get almony which he latter regreted saying since it was a lie. He also said that he knew the Greek alphabet. Then they asked him to read some words that were in Greek and he could'nt do it and then confessed that he didnt know Greek nor Hebrew in fact he hadnt been to any schools for learning the languages. Then their was the miracle wheat scandel where he claimed his wheat would produce tons more than other wheat. But it was tested by the government and found that is produce less than average. Of course he was selling it for more than it was worth. Oh yeah he would also claim preaching places in the paper when in fact he never preached there at all. It was all about advertising and making money. He had 990 shares of the 1000 shares of the JW society.

    Then Rutherford was even put into federal prison for violating the act of espionage. I also found it funny that that in 1933 he was still bald. The reason this is funny becaue that book he wrote Million now living will never die, he claimed that in 1925 that people with missing limbs would grow back and that teeth would be restored and hair would be restored. Yet in 1933 he was still bald. Of course I still find it funny how he said that those that are living a righteous life would not die but yet he died in 1936. I guess he wasnt righteous enough. :)
     
  3. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Regretably you are right. He surely was not! Thanks for looking this up. I appreciate it.
     
  4. Religious Crisis

    Religious Crisis God is a Consuming Fire!!!

    +26
    Catholic
    Private
    Yeah, good information.
     
  5. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    One other thing I would like to add is that they view their WatchTower mag as a mouth piece for God. In fact the view the executive committe that writes as a profit and that you can not understand the bible without it. THE WATCHTOWER made 44 predictions between May 1940 to April 15 1943 about the end of the world and Armageddon, which never came to pass. You can truly know a false profit by their predictions like it says in Det 18: 21-22.
     
  6. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    Hey......what a feeding frenzy!!

    I guess I'll add my own bit of info.....as it sounds like you guys don't even know the half!!!

    Can you believe that Witnesses used to use the cross in their worship?!! Yes, it was right on the front cover of the Watchtower magazine for many years!!

    And then....can you believe that they even used to celebrate Christmas!! Incredible!!! They were doing that right up until the 1920's!!!

    Why they even tolerated cigarette smoking amongst their ranks up until the 1970's when they then concluded documented hazzards of it!! Since then, unrepentant cigarette smokers are disfellowshiped!! Can you believe they do that??

    I am sure that many Witnesses do horrible things each year because.....according to their magazine the Watchtower.....about 40,000 are disfellowshiped every year!!!!!!

    What kind of people are they??

    Yes, one post was correct in saying that at one time....it was proclaimed that 'millions now living will never die'!!........Can you believe that they would ever think that???..........Sounds like they were thinking of Jesus' words at John 11:26 which says:....."and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?" Sounds like they were taking Jesus a bit too seriously??

    Then in Germany during the 1930's and 1940's, the native German Witnesses refused to display patriotic fervor and heil Hitler!! How could they ever refuse to support their very own country during its time of need!! How disloyal!!

    I bet all the presidents of the Watchtower thought and did bad things from time to time!!

    Hasn't it been tragic.....all the failed warnings that they have given!! I mean, why can't they be like the Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, or Catholics........and forget about keeping on the watch!! Just ignore any tragic signs indicating that we are living in very critical times.

    And are they still making predictions???.......or did they give up on that also like Christmas, birthdays, cigarettes??? I know they still talk about Armageddon.......and these violent times......but don't you think......that should all just be swept under the rug???

    What a past they have!! Sort of like the apostle Paul and his murderous past before becoming a Christian!! How could we ever trust him again??

    Don't you just love digging up dirt on them? I bet there is so much more! I am sure all of us don't even compare to their sordid past.

    And look at them now!! Busying themselves with their Bibles and taking their message throughout the whole earth!! They should all be arrested and scourged! I bet they are making a ton of money.....Why, I bet, in a whole day, they could probably sell about ten of those magazines. They could hardly earn that kind of money by working at a job!

    I even heard that most of those Witnesses won't even use those New World translations........because it is not even in all their languages!!

    Imagine that.....how could they ever get all their millions of people to deny the trinity without having John 1:1 translated as in the New World translation? I am sure they need that one little verse changed and yet millions of Witnesses don't even use the New World Translation!!

    How could they ever have grown to such numbers and still deny the trinity up until the printing of that Bible. After all, they were using the King James for nearly 80 years or other Bibles put out by various Bible societies.

    Incredible, how they are such a minority and yet they command so much attention!! Like this forum!! Are they really having such an impact on people??

    I would be very wary of people that don't take up arms or don't push a legilative agenda that might impact my life!! I mean, could you imagine, since they don't agree with abortion, if they tried to get politically involved and tried to enforce their moral code upon me!!

    I would be very wary to trust them in my home as a housekeeper. After all the failed promises the Watchtower made in the past. A stranger off the street could be trusted so much more!! Especially in these times.

    I really think they have ulterior motives and are out to get us. I always like to hide or tell the children to tell them that I am not at home... Or that I am on the phone.

    I would watch out for them. They may even try to sway me with their simple minded reasonings and use of the Bible. I rather go to my church on Sunday, proudly put my money in the plate as it is passed in front of all.......and then continue to utter the words that " I am saved!"

    And then go to Denny's for lunch and then home to the hammock and then a busy week at work and involvement in social programs in the neighborhood to make my own little world safer. I know I can do it. And someday I will be in heaven while those witnesses are roasting forever in a burning hellfire.

    Ah.....life is good!!
     
  7. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Lared thats pretty funny. I understand what you are saying. The things said about the founders of their religion was not broght up just to show that they were sinners, becaue we are all sinners. But, it was brought up to show there character and the fact that they created this JW society based off of lies. These men Russle and Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society claim to be prophets. However everything the predicted did not come true. In regards to MIllions now living will never die was not talking what the verse you qutoed. Instead it was talking about those living on the earth right then would not physical die. You know why they grew so much? It was because they have a great zeal and deadication to their cause. I admire the zeal greatly but their zeal falls under the verse Rom 10:2-3.

    They are lost stuck in their sins because the deny that Jesus is God. They think he is "a God" which is the arch angel Michel. But notice in John 8:24 You will die in your sins if you don’t believe Jesus is God. Because Jesus is the great I AM. John 8:58 If you want me to show you that Jesus is God and not a God or some angle or created being just let me know and I will provide you with the info.
     
  8. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Oops, sorry wrong quote.
     
  9. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    And Hitler claimed to be a good Catholic.

    Only goes to show it aint what you claim it's how you live your life. And I dought any of those poeple said any of those things, and if they did they were denying the very claim they were making.
     
  10. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Well answered Lared.

    I've been following this so called debate and all I've seen is hatred and aggresion against Jehovah's Witnesses covered up as concern. People crawling out from there dark places as Sheep in wolves clothing. I could almost here the claws being sharpened. An absolute dissgrace. Shame on you. And the ignorance of most of your comments begs belief. No other religion seems to draw such venom. Maybe Jesus words apply here "you will be hated by all people on account of my name". Mmm, I wonder
     
  11. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Just mere words lightBearer. A lot of people like to talk alot but dont like to back up their teaching with the word of God. Those that teach a false doctrine should be exposed by the word of God. I have clearly pointed out their perdictions and how none of them came true. I dont have to call them a false prophet the word of God does. Deut 18:22.

    Perhaps you think its ok to let false doctrine to be spread with out informing people about it. Well not this Christian.
     
  12. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    What false doctrine are you talking about?
     
  13. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Man where do I begin?

    1. They teach that Jesus is a God and not the God that he was none other than the arch angel Micheal. They claim him to be a created being. Their New World Translation renders John 1:1 to A GOD. They say it because in the greek that there isnt a definate aritce the so it should be translated a God. Well guess what this same greek usasge is found 20 times in John alone but they only render it A GOD when it refers to Jesus. John 1:18 is one of these instances. Lets apply their rule to this verse. No one has see A GOD at anytime. So you see here using their same greek arguement this would mean that no one has seen a god which means no one could of seen Jesus. 2nd point is found in Isa 43:10 This verse proves that Jesus is not a God that is a created being that is not the God. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    There is no God formed before or after God therefore it is a false doctrine to say that Jesus is a created God but not the God. In fact just read through Heb 1:1-9 and you can see that Jesus was not a angel and that he is God.

    2. They teach that Jesus kingdom began in 1914 and that people that were living in 1914 will still be alive when Jesus raises only the just people and thats when the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous will take care of the earth except for those luck 144,000 that get to be in heaven and actually get to see Jesus. The people on the earth will not get to see him. Again this is a false doctrine. The kingdom was to come in that generation in the 1st century. It came at the day of Pentacost because the kingdom is the church. The bible says that every eye will see Jesus but the JWS say different. The bible says that both the just and unjust will be raised. The just will go to heaven and the unjust will go to hell. Which is another thing they do not belive in. The bible plainly teaches that there is a hell and that those that enter into it will not rest day or night and that it is a everlasting torment. The bible only talks about 1 hope of being in heaven and our citizenship is in heaven. But the JW teaches we have 2 hopes 144,000 make it to heaven the rest hope to live on the earth. The bible says that the earth will be burned up the JWS dont think that it will. They beleive they know when the final comming of Jesus is but the bible says that not even Jesus knows when that will be.

    3. They teach that you have to have their creed books to be able to understand the bible without them you will never fully understand the bible.

    4. They didn’t get their name Jehovah Witness until 1931 at a convention. First I would like to say that they are not witnesses of anything. People like the Apostles were true witness of God because they actually witnessed Jesus with their eyes. They get their name from Isa 43:12. They contend that in Isa 62:2 prophesied their new name given in 1931. Isa 56:5 says this name will be an everlasting name. We find that this new name is Christians Acts 11:26

    Would you like more?
     
  14. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    Incredible.........what was I ever thinking??

    I really should follow the lead of that preacher on TV when he prays to Jesus. Whatever was I thinking???

    And to think, a Christian is one who follows Jesus. Jesus always prayed to his Father and even taught his followers to pray this way....."Our Father who art in heaven...."

    Oh my goodness!! So, really, I should be imitating the clergy of the church instead. And do what they do!!.......and pray to Jesus....or better yet.... to a trinity!!!!

    Now I get it......!!! What was I ever thinking. How misled I was!! I should be praying to a three in one God, or rather a trinity......or to Jesus, just like they do on TV.

    Boy, are those J.W.s ever misled. Imagine, all their prayers to the Father.

    All their worship to the Father, just like Jesus set down a pattern for us. Wow, are they ever misled. Why would they ever want to imitate Jesus??
    How could they ever call themselves Christians???

    Why would they ever want to do what Jesus told them to do and that is to pray ....."Our Father, who art in heaven...."???????

    What lack of appreciation for Jesus!!

    I am so glad that Cougan and others can help us. I bet they spend all their time helping people. I bet they are just as inclined to help Jews and Moslems, and American Indians. With this great knowledge they possess, I am sure they can help all of mankind to worship either Jesus or the Holy Trinity. They must be so proud of their religion, they must just be dying to tell us where to meet up with others of like faith!! So, that we can imitate them!!

    Oh, man. Why would I ever want to do what Jesus did???!!!!

    In Cougan's name,
    Amen
     
  15. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Oh boy, brother...

    That post was SOOO counter-productive!

    A little sarcasm is alright, but this just looks nonsensical. Chill out.

    Of course you can continue on this track, with out arguing your side and just blasting those of us that disagree with you.

    But what are you accomplishing?

    So if you refuse to acknowledge our beliefs, tell me this... Where do you think we got our belief in the Holy Trinity from? Di we just pull it out of the air? Is it another vast conspiracy? Or are you willing to listen to our reasoning for the trinity?

    If you keep on going at your current velocity, though, you are going to find fewer and fewer people who want to discuss this with you.

    Zach
     
  16. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    duplicate entries
     
  17. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I dislike doing the cut and paste thing, but I'm lazy because I've been up for 22 hours now...

    Here is an article from Christian Answers.net... and there are others also.

    here's a link to another one

    How can God be three persons?

    Have fun with those. I will try and actually think about my answers tomorrow instead of using someone else's material, but as it stands, there's not much of a bar for me to meet the standards of anyway.

    Good Night,


    BT
    NNNN
    Zach sends
     
  18. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Do not despair Lared ;).

    The bible advises that we not pay heed to any statement less we check it against scripture first. I've checked Cougans statements and I need to clear up some points.



    Cougan:

    I take your point about John 1: 18. that (God) does not have the deifinite article (ho) in front. Yet there is a reasonable explanation.

    Now normally, except for special reasons, Greek nouns always have the definite article in front of them, . . . When a Greek noun has not got the article in front of it, it becomes rather a description than an identification, and has the character of an adjective rather than of a noun. We can see exactly the same in English. If I say: ‘James is the man’, then I identify James with some definite man whom I have in mind; but, if I say: ‘James is man’, then I am simply describing James as human, and the word man has become a description and not an identification. If John had said ho theos _en ho logos, using a definite article in front of both nouns, then he would definitely have identified the logos [the Word] with God, but because he has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description, and more of an adjective than a noun. The translation then becomes, to put it rather clumsily, ‘The Word was in the same class as God, belonged to the same order of being as God’. . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.”—Many Witnesses, One Lord (1963), pages 23, 24. This is the case at John 1: 18. The context indicates that (God) is in the form of an Adjective rather than a Noun.

    According to Isaiah 43:10, The LORD said: “Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.” But those words do not prove that Jesus is God. The point is that God had no predecessor, that no god existed before him, for he is eternal. There will be no god after him because he will always exist and will have no successors as the Supreme Sovereign. Yet, God did produce others that he himself called gods, as the Scriptures show by saying concerning certain humans: “I myself have said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. Surely you will die just as men do; and like any one of the princes you will fall!’” (Psalm 82:6, 7) These very verses Jesus himself Quoted to those who accused him of making himself God. His reply was very interesting, he said, "Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to YOU many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are YOU stoning me?” The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son". John 10: 31-36. The Bible even calls Satan "The God of this world" 2 Cor 4: 4.

    I read through Heb 1: 1-9. From what I read I see Jesus being honored by his Father for his course of integrity on earth unto death. He is raised to life in heaven were he is given an exalted postion above the angels. Then in verse 9 it concludes with this staement, "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your fellows". Does'nt sound like he is equal to God here.

    You say the Kingdom is the Church. On what scriptures do you base this?

    Must go my freinds, Arsenal are playing Liverpool in the Charity shield.  See, I am human. ;)   Catch you all later. :wave:
     
  19. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Im sorry to tell you but I looked up John 1:18 and it is grammatically the same as Jhon 1:1 from what I can see from the greek. But lets give you the benfit of the doubt you still have 280 more instances of the word God being absent of the definate article found in the NT. So even if dismiss a few of them you can not dismiss all of them.

    Consisder this in regards to others being called Gods.

    John 10:33 -- They accuse Him of making Himself God, as though He were arrogating to Himself Godhood -- the basis for their charge of blasphemy. Blasphemy involves "the violation of the power and majesty of God" which includes "human arrogance with its implied depreciation of God."<19> The law of Moses mandated that the punishment for blaspheming the name of God was stoning (Lev. 24:11-16), a sentence they were ready to execute. John 10:31 notes the word again, recalling that in John 8:59 the Jews were ready to stone Him for the same charge.

    John 10:34-36 -- Since they had cited the law of Moses in their charge of blasphemy and its sentence, Jesus forces them to address another statement from the law. On several occasions the word for "god" was used by Jehovah of the nation's leaders: "unto whom the Word of God came" (Exo. 22:8,9,28). Moses was expressly said to be as "God" to Aaron (Exo. 4:16). Jesus now quotes from Ps. 82:6 in which God addressed the leaders of Israel and called them "gods." If the Scriptures record that such language was used to speak of the leaders of the people (those to whom the Word came, as it did to Him) how could they condemn Him for usage consistent with the Scriptures (John 10:36)? The law in which they sought condemnation He now uses for justification.

    Yes Jesus is basical telling them your Gods or past leaders that rightly handled the word of God could be called gods then how can you cast a stone at me as one that has came down to from the father to handle the word of God. He tells them if I do not do the works of my father than dont belive me. But he did do the works of his father didnt he. Besides all this I will stick with what God said about their not being any Gods formed before him or after him. These guys that were refered to as Gods were definately not deity. Now did you even adress the issue that Jesus says that he is the I AM. That reminds of another passage that the New world translation butchers and that is col 1:17 And he is before all (other) things, and by him all things consist. They insert the word other because it sure isnt found in the greek so that they can try and stress the issue that he was created before all other things. But this just simply is not the case just like Jesus claim to be the I AM this verse also shows that he was before all things that he just like the father has always self existed. Here are few more points for you to think about that shows Jesus is deity.

    John 10:30 I and my father are one.
    John 8:58 He says that I AM
    John 8:24 You will die in your sins if you don’t believe Jesus is God
    Luke 4:8 Jesus says you are to worship God
    Rev 22:8-9 Angel says you are to worship God
    Matt 8:2 Jesus accepts worship
    John 20:28 Thomas says my Lord my God without being corrected.
    Phil 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to
    be equal with God:

    Heb 1-9 simply shows that the father made the worlds throgh Jesus and and they also show that he was not a angel so this kills the idea of him being the arch angel michel not to mention the above passages showing that an angel would not accept worship but Jesus did shows he was not a created angel. Then God call his son God. Another good passage to show how 2 can be 1 look at Is 44: Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and
    beside me there is no God. This is talking about the father and the preicarnate word here. They are seperate and distinct from one another but yet they say I am the first I am the last. Just like Jesus says in Rev 22:13.

    Now Lared I dont mind sarcasim but did you really ever even make a point I dont think that you did. Do you belive that people that believe in the triune nature of God that the pray to all 3? I do not. I pray just like the word of God tell me to pray to the father in the name of Jesus. In fact I would say it would be wrong to pray directly to Jesus because he told us to pray to the father but to ask in his name.

    Now I am running out of time so I will offer the following scriputures that show that the kingdom and the church are the same thing and that the kingdom came at the day of pentacost.
    Mark 9:1 Says that some standing their would not die until the seen the kingdom come with power.
    Luke 24:49 The apostles are to wait for the power from on high.
    Acts 1:8 They are going to receive the power. Then they receive it Acts 2:1-4
    Note carefully these points:
    a. The kingdom and the power were to come together.
    b. The power and the Spirit were to come together.
    c. The Spirit came at Pentecost
    Therefore the kingdom came at Pentecost.
    Col 1:2;13 says they are conveyed or transferred (past tense) into the kingdom.
    Rev 1:9 John declares that he was in the kingdom then.
    The kingdom and the church are entered the same way. Jn 3:5 1cort 12:13
    Matt 16:18-19 church and kingdom of heaven used interchangeably.
    Heb 12:28 receiving a kingdom
    1 Thess. 2:12 who calleth you into his own kingdom and glory
    Rom. 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking"

    Next time I will cover the fact the HS isnt an active force of God as the JW describe. I will show how the HS is being or a person which has its own will.
     
  20. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Hi Cougan, thank you for your reply.

    I have carefully looked at the scriptures you cited and can see to a certain extent why you might draw the kind of conclusions that you have put forward from those verses. I did a little research, with an open mind I might add, and have come up with the following explanations that make sense to me. I hope you find them enlightening.

    As to John 10: 31-36

    The word “God” or “god” is commonly used regarding a superhuman object of veneration. So, in the minds of many people, “god” means either (1) the Supreme Being, the Almighty, or (2) a false god, such as an idol. However, the Bible allows for other usage. The word God does not have to mean Deity, it can simply mean Powerful or Mighty one. We can see this from Psalm 82:1, 2. There the Divine One is distinguished from human judges whom the psalmist terms “gods.” Jesus himself later referred to this passage. Because he had spoken of God as being his Father, some Jews wanted to stone him. To their accusation that he was ‘making himself a god,’ Jesus responded: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called [those human judges] ‘gods’ . . . do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?” John 10:31-36.

    To his enemies, Jesus by calling himself “God’s son” was making himself a god. After all, the offspring of a Cat would be a cat, the offspring of a Dog would be a dog, and therefore the offspring of God would be a god. His argument seems to be that if humans who were not “Sons of God” could be by called gods by God, of which you all would have to accept because it is written in your scriptures, then why do you accuse me of blaspheme for saying I am “God’s Son”. He had more claim to being a god than those humans did he being the offspring of God. NOTE: Jesus had the opportunity on this occasion to refer to himself as “God the son” but he did not, he simply referred to himself rightfully as, the son of God.

    Unquestionably then there is only one Almighty God, even as the apostle Paul wrote: “For even though there are those who are called ‘gods,’ whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords,’ there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.” (1 Corinthians 8: 5, 6).

    “I and the Father Are One”

    THAT text, at John 10:30, is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being “one” with the Father. At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one.” Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were. —See also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

    At 1 Corinthians 3:6, 8, Paul says: “I planted, Apollos watered . . . He that plants and he that waters are one.” Paul did not mean that he and Apollos were two persons in one; he meant that they were unified in purpose. The Greek word that Paul used here for “one” (hen) is neuter, literally “one (thing),” indicating oneness in cooperation. It is the same word that Jesus used at John 10:30 to describe his relationship with his Father. It is also the same word that Jesus used at John 17:21, 22. So when he used the word “one” (hen) in these cases, he was talking about unity of thought and purpose. If it meant “One” as in same person “one” would have had to be in the Masculine Gender

    “I Am”

    At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised. The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’”

    The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:

    1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

    1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

    1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

    1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.
    Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation
    3:14.

    Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Joh 8 Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible.


    Matt 8: 2.
    The Greek pro·sky·ne'o which you have refered to as “worship” in Matt 8: 2. should be more properly translated “Obeisance”. Which can simply mean an act of respect. So yes, Jesus accepted this kind of address much as a king or other important person would

    John 20:28 Thomas says my Lord my God without being corrected.

    The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: “I am ascending . . . to my God and your God.” (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself “the only true God” or that Jesus is a Trinitarian “God the Son,” he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (John 20 vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (John 20 vs. 31). So Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God. Thomas may have addressed Jesus as “my God” in the sense of Christ’s being “a god,” though not “the only true God.” (John 1:1; 17:1-3) Or by saying “my God,” Thomas may have been acknowledging Jesus as God’s Spokesman and Representative, even as others addressed an angelic messenger as though he were God.—Compare Genesis 18:1-5, 22-33; 31:11-13; 32:24-30; Judges 2:1-5; 6:11-15; 13:20-22.

    Phil 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to
    be equal with God:

    KJ reads: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (Dy has the same wording. JB reads: “he did not cling to his equality with God.”) However, in NW the latter portion of that passage reads: “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure [Greek, har·pag·mon'], namely, that he should be equal to God.” (RS, NE, TEV, NAB convey the same thought.)
    Which thought agrees with the context? Php 2 Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be equal with God”? Surely not! However, they can imitate one who “gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (NW) (Compare Genesis 3:5.) Such a translation also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”—John 14:28.
    The Expositor’s Greek Testament says: “We cannot find any passage where [har·pa'zo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·mon'] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.
     
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