Jared Diamond proves God ?

[Kevin Snow]

I did not say one way or another, You had implied that the bible clearly states it is ONLY on this planet, can you show me where it clearly states that ?

I did already. Why don't you understand? The account of creation is exhaustive. You don't know logic? You don't know that if everything is stated and you are missing something then that something you are missing never existed. Try to understand the principle in the word of God.

 

[cfyahoo08]

I did already. Why don't you understand? The account of creation is exhaustive. You don't know logic? You don't know that if everything is stated and you are missing something then that something you are missing never existed. Try to understand the principle in the word of God.

As far as we know this could be a typical work week for God.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Kevin Snow]

As far as we know this could be a typical work week for God.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Haha, you don't understand. Yahshua is talking about the Gentiles. The fold is Israel itself and those who are not of this fold are those who are not of Israel: the Gentiles. That's all that is. Pretty simple right?

 

[Chinchilla]

I did not say one way or another, You had implied that the bible clearly states it is ONLY on this planet, can you show me where it clearly states that ?

There is no word for planet I believer , only heaven and earth , soon , moon and stars .
There is no word for universe either .

There are 3 heavens tho according to bible .

 

[cfyahoo08]

Haha, you don't understand. Yahshua is talking about the Gentiles. The fold is Israel itself and those who are not of this fold are those who are not of Israel: the Gentiles. That's all that is. Pretty simple right?

Unless it is CLEARLY stated your making assumptions and trying to speak for God.

 

[Kevin Snow]

Unless it is CLEARLY stated your making assumptions and trying to speak for God.

Yes it is clearly stated. I think you meant "explicitly" stated. And this is not the word of God. We are to understand from principle more than what he says alone. This is why we are to meditate on his word.

Were I to write for him my laws by the ten thousands, they would be regarded as a strange thing. ~Hosea 8:12

God wants us to understand all of his commandment which is "eternal life" that he gave to Yahshua. And this commandment is exceedingly broad. Just because something is not explicitly stated does not mean you are not accountable for understanding it on the basis of the principle of what God has spoken before.

 

[dqhall]

Fermi's Paradox is that, to the best of present observations, humans are alone in the universe as far as current telescopes can see. Despite countless stars & planets, none have (obviously) developed intelligent technological civilizations such as humans.

• prima facie, life never emerges on its own in our corner of the cosmos

Lots of hype recently about "sequential evolution" as scientists address the "Gaia paradox" -- how life has survived continuously on earth for such a long long time. Science acknowledges it is hard to explain how life not only emerged, but then afterwards persisted, for ages & eons.

• even if life emerges, it probably doesn't persist on its own for significant time

Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel argues that for civilization to emerge requires an amazing conspiracy of beneficial factors, all appearing on the same planet at the same place and time. Right region of the right planet with the right climate, with a perfect suite of plant crops (grains) that grow easily & quickly and act like a natural solar collector, harnessing starlight and converting it into useful energy. Plus the perfect suite of animals (farm animals) that can provide meat & muscle power to pull plows, etc.

• even if life emerges & persists, it probably doesn't produce civilization, from the perfect storm of flora & fauna in the presence of an intelligent tool-using organism

So, here on earth there's a perfect conspiracy of factors giving rise, not only to intelligent technological humans... but also all of the supporting plants & animals without which we would have remained sophisticated hunter-gatherers but not civilized...

whereas everywhere else across the cosmos exists nothing but barren lifeless desert worlds uninhabitable.



Conclusion -- perhaps the disparity between "Jared Diamond's perfect conspiracy of factors" on earth and (prima facie) "Fermi's Paradox of nothing anywhere else" suggests some sort of extra-ordinary, supra-natural God-like actor at work ???

I can not see to the end of the road, much less analyze distant galaxies. If God contacts you, it becomes hard to deny God exists. It is natural for some people to look and not find any evidence of creation or God.

John 1:5 (KJV)
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[Chinchilla]

I can not see to the end of the road, much less analyze distant galaxies. If God contacts you, it becomes hard to deny God exists. It is natural for some people to look and not find any evidence of creation or God.

John 1:5 (KJV)
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Romans 1
18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

According to God they have enought evidence but surpress it .

 

[gideon123]

we are still in our infancy ... as far as understanding life on other planets. we have only been as far as the Moon. and we dont even seem to be able to get back there

i think the long term survival of life on Earth is most certainly evidence of God's great love!

it is very possible that life on planets close to the center of the Galaxy did not survive ... because there are many more energetic events there. we don't know.

its also possible that aliens are communicating with faster-than-light technology. but we have no idea how that might work.

The Book of Revelations does remind us that our Earth will be obliterated - the Bible says 'burned up' - maybe by some event within our galaxy that we do not understand yet. Only God knows.

All life is in the hands of a Loving God.

 

[Steve Petersen]

we are still in our infancy ... as far as understanding life on other planets. we have only been as far as the Moon. and we dont even seem to be able to get back there

i think the long term survival of life on Earth is most certainly evidence of God's great love!

it is very possible that life on planets close to the center of the Galaxy did not survive ... because there are many more energetic events there. we don't know.

its also possible that aliens are communicating with faster-than-light technology. but we have no idea how that might work.

The Book of Revelations does remind us that our Earth will be obliterated - the Bible says 'burned up' - maybe by some event within our galaxy that we do not understand yet. Only God knows.

All life is in the hands of a Loving God.

Except for several mass extinctions. He must have been quite angry or disappointed with life on earth before humans

 

[SilverBear]

Fermi's Paradox is that, to the best of present observations, humans are alone in the universe as far as current telescopes can see. Despite countless stars & planets, none have (obviously) developed intelligent technological civilizations such as humans.

• prima facie, life never emerges on its own in our corner of the cosmos

Lots of hype recently about "sequential evolution" as scientists address the "Gaia paradox" -- how life has survived continuously on earth for such a long long time. Science acknowledges it is hard to explain how life not only emerged, but then afterwards persisted, for ages & eons.

• even if life emerges, it probably doesn't persist on its own for significant time

Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel argues that for civilization to emerge requires an amazing conspiracy of beneficial factors, all appearing on the same planet at the same place and time. Right region of the right planet with the right climate, with a perfect suite of plant crops (grains) that grow easily & quickly and act like a natural solar collector, harnessing starlight and converting it into useful energy. Plus the perfect suite of animals (farm animals) that can provide meat & muscle power to pull plows, etc.

• even if life emerges & persists, it probably doesn't produce civilization, from the perfect storm of flora & fauna in the presence of an intelligent tool-using organism

So, here on earth there's a perfect conspiracy of factors giving rise, not only to intelligent technological humans... but also all of the supporting plants & animals without which we would have remained sophisticated hunter-gatherers but not civilized...

whereas everywhere else across the cosmos exists nothing but barren lifeless desert worlds uninhabitable.



Conclusion -- perhaps the disparity between "Jared Diamond's perfect conspiracy of factors" on earth and (prima facie) "Fermi's Paradox of nothing anywhere else" suggests some sort of extra-ordinary, supra-natural God-like actor at work ???

Fermi's paradox has many possible resolutions. it could be that the staggering distances of space are so large that it's impossible to cross these distances so civilizations just stay at home. It could be that we are the first civilization in our galaxy to enter the space age. ANd the most likely resolution, we foolishly assume any other form of life would look and act like us so we could be staring right at an alien civilization and just not realize it.


Diamond makes a logical error when he assumes that he earth is perfect for the production of intelligence life. We aren't. we are actually at the edge of the "Goldilocks zone". we have deep oceans, most species prefer shallow areas of the ocean. Our atmosphere could be a bit more oxygen rich. and so on and so on.

 

[jamesbond007]

Except for several mass extinctions. He must have been quite angry or disappointed with life on earth before humans

Ah yes, one of the times where atheists have no trouble in believing in God. Even believers have trouble in believing that God ordered men, women and children killed of the Canaanites.

God held several mass extinctions
1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)

What does it mean? It's not an easy question to deal with as it brings us abhorrent feelings. To repent for our sins and continue to have faith and trust in God that he is good and had his reasons for the killings? To understand that we will all face Judgment Day? .

OTOH, we find that Darwinism led to eugenics and social Darwinism which became the foundation for the Holocaust and genocide and it even continues today with Planned Parenthood. State atheism led to most mass slayings in all of history.

 

[jamesbond007]

Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel argues that for civilization to emerge requires an amazing conspiracy of beneficial factors, all appearing on the same planet at the same place and time. Right region of the right planet with the right climate, with a perfect suite of plant crops (grains) that grow easily & quickly and act like a natural solar collector, harnessing starlight and converting it into useful energy. Plus the perfect suite of animals (farm animals) that can provide meat & muscle power to pull plows, etc.

• even if life emerges & persists, it probably doesn't produce civilization, from the perfect storm of flora & fauna in the presence of an intelligent tool-using organism

So, here on earth there's a perfect conspiracy of factors giving rise, not only to intelligent technological humans... but also all of the supporting plants & animals without which we would have remained sophisticated hunter-gatherers but not civilized...

whereas everywhere else across the cosmos exists nothing but barren lifeless desert worlds uninhabitable.



Conclusion -- perhaps the disparity between "Jared Diamond's perfect conspiracy of factors" on earth and (prima facie) "Fermi's Paradox of nothing anywhere else" suggests some sort of extra-ordinary, supra-natural God-like actor at work ???

I haven't read the book, but will now. However, I do not see how it relates to Fermi's paradox or God-like actor at work. Will look forward to reading. Thank you. Recently, I was thinking about how the US became a great power. It seems to fit the guns, germs and steel hypothesis.

The Royal Road - California history clip

 

[Cement]

I've heard the saying that it takes more faith to believe in spontaneous creation then it does God. You have a bigger chance of a tornado hitting a scrapyard and producing a working 747 then for a single complex cell existing.

 

[Radagast]

I did already. Why don't you understand? The account of creation is exhaustive.

Well, that is obviously false. If it was true, the Creation account would be millions of books, not just a few chapters.

 

[Radagast]

Fermi's paradox has many possible resolutions. it could be that the staggering distances of space are so large that it's impossible to cross these distances so civilizations just stay at home.

But that doesn't stop them communicating. And we have hear nothing on the radio.

we have deep oceans, most species prefer shallow areas of the ocean.

That's a lousy argument.

Our atmosphere could be a bit more oxygen rich.

Actually, oxygen levels rise up to a limit set by forest fires.

 

[Colter]

Fermi's Paradox is that, to the best of present observations, humans are alone in the universe as far as current telescopes can see. Despite countless stars & planets, none have (obviously) developed intelligent technological civilizations such as humans.

• prima facie, life never emerges on its own in our corner of the cosmos

Lots of hype recently about "sequential evolution" as scientists address the "Gaia paradox" -- how life has survived continuously on earth for such a long long time. Science acknowledges it is hard to explain how life not only emerged, but then afterwards persisted, for ages & eons.

• even if life emerges, it probably doesn't persist on its own for significant time

Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel argues that for civilization to emerge requires an amazing conspiracy of beneficial factors, all appearing on the same planet at the same place and time. Right region of the right planet with the right climate, with a perfect suite of plant crops (grains) that grow easily & quickly and act like a natural solar collector, harnessing starlight and converting it into useful energy. Plus the perfect suite of animals (farm animals) that can provide meat & muscle power to pull plows, etc.

• even if life emerges & persists, it probably doesn't produce civilization, from the perfect storm of flora & fauna in the presence of an intelligent tool-using organism

So, here on earth there's a perfect conspiracy of factors giving rise, not only to intelligent technological humans... but also all of the supporting plants & animals without which we would have remained sophisticated hunter-gatherers but not civilized...

whereas everywhere else across the cosmos exists nothing but barren lifeless desert worlds uninhabitable.



Conclusion -- perhaps the disparity between "Jared Diamond's perfect conspiracy of factors" on earth and (prima facie) "Fermi's Paradox of nothing anywhere else" suggests some sort of extra-ordinary, supra-natural God-like actor at work ???

In my theology God created life using the technique of evolution, a fostered evolution. Within the overcontrol of evolution is "purposive potential". Since evolution is characterized by mutations and the effects of so many chemical reactions and modifications, it is impossible to prove the exact links and transformations brought about by our unseen friends. Science can only observe the remnants of all these vast, age old events.

 

[SilverBear]

But that doesn't stop them communicating. And we have hear nothing on the radio.

what a lousy argument.

communicating takes time.

Kepler 174d is a exoplanet located in the constellation Lyra and is considered to be have a high probability of being able to sustain life. if a civilization wanted to have a conversation with us starting today they would ave had to send out a "hello Earth" message 1,174 years ago. Our reply "hi there, nice to meet you." would take another 1, 174 years to get back to them.

That's a lousy argument.

the argument is that Earth is ideal for the formation of life and the sustaining of life, but it is not ideal at all. there are many ways that a planet could be more conductive to life.

Actually, oxygen levels rise up to a limit set by forest fires.

Earth's oxygen levels have dropped 20% since the carboniferous.

 

[friend of]

God did not hide anything, but the one who are hidden hide them self.

Proverbs 25:2

 

[Steve Petersen]

and ship's are built for the sake of barnacles.