Japanese Media's Western Localizers Slowly Replaced by AI and It's Great News

[IceJad]

Japanese fans are increasingly aware of English localization quality

Japanese fans and YouTubers are finally taking note of the controversial quality of English localization when it comes to games, manga, and anime. In large part thanks to YouTuber Rev Says Desu…

nichegamer.com

I'll be lying if I said I'm not happy about the news. I'm not one to celebrate the termination of a person's livelihood however I'll make an exception on this one. For far too long western localizers have been butchering Japanese media with their political activism destroying the property of the original creator. Their job is to translate the Japanese media to the closest intent and meaning of the original work. Yet they took liberties and injected unwanted personal "Western progressive" talking points into other people's works.

Now with the advancement of AI it seems their butchering days are over. While AI translations are not on the level of human translators who better understand context, it will not be long before AI eventually catches up. AI voices have already reached a stage that it can be hard to discern from the actual human. Near perfect text translations are soon to come. Good, excellent and all is well in my opinion.

We have lived through the early days of poorly translated Japanese media (yet more faithful in essence to the original) when they were done by the Japanese themselves. 80s & 90s kids will remember gems such as "All your base are belong to us" and "Congraturation. This story is happy end". We can live through it again if it means the end of "Western progressive" talking points in our Japanese media. We love Japanese media for what it is, all the quirks and mannerisms. From games, anime, tokusatsu and light novels, it's the Japanese characteristic of it that is appealing - NOT "Western progressivism".

Looks like the Japanese companies themselves have finally woke up to the damage done by the western localizers. They now will start to employ AI. So let me end with a phrase I would like to borrow from Mortal Kombat - Enough of your madness (butchered translations)! If you (western localizers) must die (career) so be it!

 

[Laodicean60]

We have lived through the early days of poorly translated Japanese media

I can't wait for it with old historical Chinese movies also.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I didn't watch the video, but it's a good thing that Japanese content may be translated into English without ideological insertion or commentary. However, having lived in Japan for eight years, I can say this: It's very difficult for any program to properly translate Japanese into English due to how different the languages are and for cultural reasons. I'm not confident we'll ever reach a point where computers can know enough about the context to accurately convey the proper meaning. In other words, to properly translate Japanese, you have to understand the context, because very often, things are implied. And if the context is missing, then a machine can only guess at what's meant, which is often wrong. Humans can make the same error, but we can more easily discern what's meant than a program.

 

[IceJad]

I can't wait for it with old historical Chinese movies also.

I'm ethnically Chinese so it's not an issue for me except when it's in Mandarin as I'm Cantonese. But yes I agree that historical Chinese movies have been poorly translated and even worse when dubbed into English (seen a few clips of them here and there). Some older Chinese grammar and vocabulary are not easily translated into English.

Like in Cantonese an emperor will refer to himself as "jumm" while common folk will usually say "ngor". It is an exclusive term to royalty. There is no equivalent in English as far as I'm aware. The closest will be the "Royal We", however common folk also uses "we".

But I can bet you would rather have poorly translated Chinese movies than the overtly political & ideological ones.

 

[IceJad]

I didn't watch the video, but it's a good thing that Japanese content may be translated into English without ideological insertion or commentary. However, having lived in Japan for eight years, I can say this: It's very difficult for any program to properly translate Japanese into English due to how different the languages are and for cultural reasons. I'm not confident we'll ever reach a point where computers can know enough about the context to accurately convey the proper meaning. In other words, to properly translate Japanese, you have to understand the context, because very often, things are implied. And if the context is missing, then a machine can only guess at what's meant, which is often wrong. Humans can make the same error, but we can more easily discern what's meant than a program.

Regenerative AI has come a long way. It can learn concepts. You should see some of the AI art generated with just a few lines of text. It will not take much to train an AI. All you need is to feed it examples (we call it samples in IT). The more you feed it the better and more accurate results you can get.

I understand Japanese is a high context language. When speaking one seldom uses pronouns as it is understood to whom the speech is directed at. In English you would usually ask "Where are YOU going?" while Japanese will be "Where going?" or "Going where?" (literal translation) as the pronoun is not required to be grammatically correct.

But give it time, as now companies are pouring money into it. It will not be long before results get better with the better funding. We would be better off this way than to rely on bad faith ideological numb nuts.

 

[Laodicean60]

I'm ethnically Chinese so it's not an issue for me except when it's in Mandarin as I'm Cantonese.

Pronouns and gender translated to English is off but I understand. Also, a lot of poetry, they mentions " rivers and lakes" which I understand as a people or township but not sure.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Regenerative AI has come a long way. It can learn concepts. You should see some of the AI art generated with just a few lines of text. It will not take much to train an AI. All you need is to feed it examples (we call it samples in IT). The more you feed it the better and more accurate results you can get.

I understand Japanese is a high context language. When speaking one seldom uses pronouns as it is understood to whom the speech is directed at. In English you would usually ask "Where are YOU going?" while Japanese will be "Where going?" or "Going where?" (literal translation) as the pronoun is not required to be grammatically correct.

But give it time, as now companies are pouring money into it. It will not be long before results get better with the better funding. We would be better off this way than to rely on bad faith ideological numb nuts.

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with the progress of AI, and while things may improve, I have no confidence in that we can expect error-free translations. Google's AI Bard is pretty good, but some of its suggestions for English to Japanese translations are not particularly good or accurate, even with its staggering amount of Google data. Beyond the common dropping of subjects, which you mention, in Japanese, there are many words and concepts that can't be easily translated into English, which often gets translated in a literal sense and makes no sense in English.

So, what I'm saying is this: AI can be helpful, but we shouldn't completely rely on it. In most cases, I don't think AI should be able to make decisions for us and execute those decisions. We need humans to oversee and approve what's actually being done. AI can also be abused and it's also been proven to be somewhat uncontrollable and unpredictable, which is another reason why it needs oversight and limits.

 

[FireDragon76]

Japanese as a language evolved within a different ego structure and background cultural assumptions.

Like alot of non-Indo-European languages, Japanese uses topic-comment, with subject object distinctions familiar to English speakers being of lesser or no importance. Sometimes a literal translation to English isn't possible.

 

[Nithavela]

Anime being changed up to fit "moral standards" of western audiences is hardly a recent issue. That's been going on for decades, too. For example, in the early dubbings of the Sailor Moon anime, they spliced a short segment at the end that was supposed to deliver a moral message, like western cartoons often did.

Other parts and even entire episodes were cut because they either were too foreign or offended the sensibilities of the western censors (mostly by showing too much skin).

Another important factor to remember is that, while in the west people who dub media are faceless masses nobody cares about, in Japan, they are stars on par with TV and Movie personalities, with their own fan clubs and them voicing certain characters being a major draw for the audience. The reveal of who will be the Seiyuu (japanese for voice actor) of a cast of characters in a long awaited character is treated much like the reveal of the cast of a movie or TV series release in the west. Because of this, a majority of fans of japanese media consumes the content with subtitles and not dubbed. I guess one could argue for machine generated subtitles, but even those aren't close to "there" yet. Fan subs usually deliver. I don't think that once the software is ready, localisation will be done to preserve the artists vision. More likely, it will just be done to cut costs and save time.

 

[IceJad]

Pronouns and gender translated to English is off but I understand. Also, a lot of poetry, they mentions " rivers and lakes" which I understand as a people or township but not sure.

Chinese proverbs and poetries are very much influenced by their surrounding. China has a lot of tall mountains, rivers and lakes which influence a lot of their artistic expressions. Like how in English we compare humans to animals like "lionhearted" or "eye of an eagle". So some Chinese sayings might be referencing a totally different subject from the words used.

Also most older historical movies tend to be adaptations of stage plays where poetries are used more often. Much like how older English movies use more poetic expressions.

 

[IceJad]

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with the progress of AI, and while things may improve, I have no confidence in that we can expect error-free translations. Google's AI Bard is pretty good, but some of its suggestions for English to Japanese translations are not particularly good or accurate, even with its staggering amount of Google data. Beyond the common dropping of subjects, which you mention, in Japanese, there are many words and concepts that can't be easily translated into English, which often gets translated in a literal sense and makes no sense in English.

So, what I'm saying is this: AI can be helpful, but we shouldn't completely rely on it. In most cases, I don't think AI should be able to make decisions for us and execute those decisions. We need humans to oversee and approve what's actually being done. AI can also be abused and it's also been proven to be somewhat uncontrollable and unpredictable, which is another reason why it needs oversight and limits.

AI is not going to completely replace humans for now but it will help in reducing reliance on them. The studios can very quickly get a translation out and have a human run thru to make minor changes. It will also help catch bad faith translators when the AI's translations are vastly different from the translators'.

But don't look down on AI. We have thought AI to solve problems when given a premise to work towards. They adapt quickly. Imagine if you train your AI in Japanese idioms, proverbs and sayings, it will not be long before the AI starts to understand that these group of words doesn't require direct translation but rather a more nuance translation.

For example "there is a heaven above heaven" (a common saying) doesn't mean there are 2 bodies of sky one on top of the other, but rather saying there is always someone or something better than you out there. Initially the AI will translate it literally. But as you make adjustments to it the AI will learn to translate it as "there is always someone better". The AI can also be though to translate variants of "heaven above heaven" to the same meaning.

Give it time. People use to think heavy metal object will not be able to fly or sail the oceans. Now we have supersonic planes and deep sea submarines and aircraft carriers.

 

[IceJad]

Anime being changed up to fit "moral standards" of western audiences is hardly a recent issue. That's been going on for decades, too. For example, in the early dubbings of the Sailor Moon anime, they spliced a short segment at the end that was supposed to deliver a moral message, like western cartoons often did.

Other parts and even entire episodes were cut because they either were too foreign or offended the sensibilities of the western censors (mostly by showing too much skin).

Another important factor to remember is that, while in the west people who dub media are faceless masses nobody cares about, in Japan, they are stars on par with TV and Movie personalities, with their own fan clubs and them voicing certain characters being a major draw for the audience. The reveal of who will be the Seiyuu (japanese for voice actor) of a cast of characters in a long awaited character is treated much like the reveal of the cast of a movie or TV series release in the west. Because of this, a majority of fans of japanese media consumes the content with subtitles and not dubbed. I guess one could argue for machine generated subtitles, but even those aren't close to "there" yet. Fan subs usually deliver. I don't think that once the software is ready, localisation will be done to preserve the artists vision. More likely, it will just be done to cut costs and save time.

What you're referring to is only the western broadcasting era of anime. When the western audiences are unfamiliar with Japanese culture. De-orientalization of anything deemed too foreign to westerners. That era ended in the early 2000s. The rise of streaming and cable gave people more faithful translations and keeping a lot of the Japanese essence of the works. However with the rise of progressivism in the west, many activists began infiltrating all aspects of cultures. It started with western medias (look at Disney now - billions in losses) then sipped into Japanese medias.

If you think the people don't care, I have proof that they do. Else why would a company reprint a book with new translations and waste all those money.

Seven Seas Addresses Mushoku Tensei, Classroom of the Elite Light Novel Localization Changes (Updated)

Publisher to reissue Classroom of the Elite #7, is 're-evaluating' choices for Mushoku Tensei after complaints of omitted/rewritten text

www.animenewsnetwork.com

 

[Nithavela]

If you think the people don't care, I have proof that they do. Else why would a company reprint a book with new translations and waste all those money.

To sell the same book twice. Or are they distributing that book to all owners of the previous version for free?

 

[IceJad]

Japanese as a language evolved within a different ego structure and background cultural assumptions.

Like alot of non-Indo-European languages, Japanese uses topic-comment, with subject object distinctions familiar to English speakers being of lesser or no importance. Sometimes a literal translation to English isn't possible.

We don't need literal "literal" translations, but rather faithful translations. Somethings can't be directly translated like "Schadenfreude." But you can always translate to "Pleasurable misery!". That's all readers want.

 

[Nithavela]

What you're referring to is only the western broadcasting era of anime. When the western audiences are unfamiliar with Japanese culture. De-orientalization of anything deemed too foreign to westerners. That era ended in the early 2000s. The rise of streaming and cable gave people more faithful translations and keeping a lot of the Japanese essence of the works. However with the rise of progressivism in the west, many activists began infiltrating all aspects of cultures. It started with western medias (look at Disney now - billions in losses) then sipped into Japanese medias.

If you think the people don't care, I have proof that they do. Else why would a company reprint a book with new translations and waste all those money.

Seven Seas Addresses Mushoku Tensei, Classroom of the Elite Light Novel Localization Changes (Updated)

Publisher to reissue Classroom of the Elite #7, is 're-evaluating' choices for Mushoku Tensei after complaints of omitted/rewritten text

www.animenewsnetwork.com

To reiterate: Censoring content was never only about japanese culture, but also about leaving out stuff the publishers thought to be problematic. This is not a new phenomenon. There are plenty of anime episodes that have been cut or edited because they showed too much skin or had sexual themes the censors thought to be inappropriate for younger audiences.

It's also about having a larger target audience. Sure, you can leave all the raunchy stuff, the gore and the references to rape in, but then there'll be a higher age rating and less parents will buy the stuff for their children.

 

[FireDragon76]

We don't need literal "literal" translations, but rather faithful translations. Somethings can't be directly translated like "Schadenfreude." But you can always translate to "Pleasurable misery!". That's all readers want.

There are limits to how much concepts can be translated faithfully even, given a certain cultural context.

I've seen some people misunderstand some important points in Japanese anime works like Miyazake, because they don't understand much about Japanese culture, especially as it ties into Japanese religion. It would be like trying to understand Milton's Paradise Lost without understanding anything about Christianity.

 

[IceJad]

There are limits to how much concepts can be translated faithfully even, given a certain cultural context.

I've seen some people misunderstand some important points in Japanese anime works like Miyazake, because they don't understand much about Japanese culture, especially as it ties into Japanese religion. It would be like trying to understand Milton's Paradise Lost without understanding anything about Christianity.

That would not be a good enough reason to mistranslate or change the meaning of the original story. I read up on Norse mythology, I understood the concepts pretty well even when translated into English. I'm not even a Scandinavian cultural enthusiast. I understood the concept of the World Tree, the different realms, honorable death by combat and all the quirks Norsemen culture.

Even if i don't understand a concept, that doesn't mean I would be lost in a literature. I read LOTR and initially I didn't get what Gandalf said about being the "servant of the sacred fire". Only later didn't I get that he is referring to Eru Illuvitar's flame imperishable. However I wouldn't want the translator to just change what Gandalf said to something nonsensical to fit my understanding.

Besides I have read fan translations of Japanese media where not only did they keep the translations faithful but they are able to translate it in such a way that the cultural context is understood. If fans can do it I don't see a reason "professionals" can't on top of the need to inject their own political agendas into it.

If I want to translate LOTR into another language I would make sure it is very faithful to JRR Tolkien's English works. No self inserts or changing of anything. That's called professionalism and good faith. Something that has been broken by western translators of Japanese medias.

 

[FireDragon76]

That would not be a good enough reason to mistranslate or change the meaning of the original story. I read up on Norse mythology, I understood the concepts pretty well even when translated into English. I'm not even a Scandinavian cultural enthusiast. I understood the concept of the World Tree, the different realms, honorable death by combat and all the quirks Norsemen culture.

Even if i don't understand a concept, that doesn't mean I would be lost in a literature. I read LOTR and initially I didn't get what Gandalf said about being the "servant of the sacred fire". Only later didn't I get that he is referring to Eru Illuvitar's flame imperishable. However I wouldn't want the translator to just change what Gandalf said to something nonsensical to fit my understanding.

Besides I have read fan translations of Japanese media where not only did they keep the translations faithful but they are able to translate it in such a way that the cultural context is understood. If fans can do it I don't see a reason "professionals" can't on top of the need to inject their own political agendas into it.

If I want to translate LOTR into another language I would make sure it is very faithful to JRR Tolkien's English works. No self inserts or changing of anything. That's called professionalism and good faith. Something that has been broken by western translators of Japanese medias.

There are different theories about translation. Some advocate a more literal translation, others one that is more culturally relevant. It's mostly down to what the intended goal is.

 

[IceJad]

There are different theories about translation. Some advocate a more literal translation, others one that is more culturally relevant. It's mostly down to what the intended goal is.

Does culturally relevant means "progressive talking" points and changing of story? Things that only "progressive" leaning people will find appealing? We are not talking about onigiri becoming jelly doughnuts (Pokemon) here. We are talking about changing genders of characters, 3rd wave feminism and the likes. It has less to do with culture and more to do with "progressive intersectionality" ideology. Things that have zero relevancy to the story or the local culture.

I for one am glad that AI will be doing the translation now. No matter how broken the translations may be, as long as the intent is understandable I'm all good as with most people (if the online engagement is of any indication).

AI can improve over time. But ideological people only get worse over time for when given an inch they think a yard is theirs as well.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There are different theories about translation. Some advocate a more literal translation, others one that is more culturally relevant. It's mostly down to what the intended goal is.

Well you would think out of respect for the story, a translation would attempt to recreate it as closely as possible.