Janie's Got A Gun

[TheDag]

In some sense at least in the US the right to bear arms were written into the constitution to keep the government in check, as well as be ready to be called into a militia if the country needed defending.

this is a debatable point from what I understand. I've spoken to and heard severl people from the US say it was for defending the country not to keep the government in check. The problem being that the US constitution was written quickly that it wasn't thought out well how to word it. We see similar problems in reading the bible. We sometimes misunderstand it because it was written in the context of a different culture. The context of what was happening at the time must also be taken into consideration. For example if written not long after the war of independence then that would be a big factor to consider as to why it was put in the constitution.

The ownership of a firearms by citizens can be an assistance to government in some circumstances. The Lord had Nehemiah and those that helped rebuild Jerusalem holding or carrying a weapons while working, some were posted as guard as others labored always having a spear at the ready. We are all not meant to fight, however some are and they should be armed as they follow the path the Lord has given them.

this is giving an of an army and then applying it to people whose job it was to preach the gospel and face persecution. Comparing apples and oranges as they say.

 

[TheDag]

We need weapons to protect ourselves from corrupt governments.

what like in egypt where the miltary has been ordered to bring the protesters under control and like in china where the miltary was also ordered to bring protesters in tiananmen square where the majority of the miltary also refused to follow orders. Exceptions where when protesters climbed on top of tanks where it could be considered that they opened fire with their handguns to defend themselves rather than trying to oppress the people. Or maybe they were just ambitious. The majority of the miltary did not take action unless attacked first. That comes from a person who was there not biased media reports.

 

[tgg]

If you abuse your position of power and oppress the people for long enough, you've gotta expect them to rebel eventually and it'll be all your fault. I've no sympathy for dictators or tyrants at all.

 

[Argy Lacedom]

If you abuse your position of power and oppress the people for long enough, you've gotta expect them to rebel eventually and it'll be all your fault. I've no sympathy for dictators or tyrants at all.

So you're no fan of god?

 

[luchsgud]

I sometimes wonder about these rights we wheel around in our barrows of opinion t0 tickle the emotions of others.

Consider... the oppressed have the right to liberation, yet the oppressor can claim the right of self defense so they both own a gun. It either comes down to murder or the one exercising their right to give up their right. lol.

Jesus had the right to defend himself in the Garden of Gethsemane, yet he chose not to [so much for two swords].

I do believe that gun ownership eventually comes down, not to individual rights, but what is right. Is it right that we have guns at all? Should we have need of them? The illegal ownership of guns does not legitimize the ownership of them.

So all the posturising above is of no value whatsoever.

Truthfully Janie should not have a gun. Neither should her potential attacker. That's all.

 

[Tahoenite]

Truthfully Janie should not have a gun. Neither should her potential attacker. That's all.

Just an FYI, the Aerosmith song in which this thread I believe is named after, was about a girl that was molested and used a gun to break the cycle of abuse. I am ok with her having a gun.

 

[luchsgud]

Just an FYI, the Aerosmith song in which this thread I believe is named after, was about a girl that was molested and used a gun to break the cycle of abuse. I am ok with her having a gun.

I am aware of the Aerosmith song. It's problem is that we can make any amount of excuses to legitimize something we want. Even if it is a RL story it does not give legality to the ownership of guns.

Unfortunately many young girls have suffered molestation, most without the use of a gun; and many have overcome that abuse in other ways.

While both you and I may be ok with her obtaining and using a gun because we abhor the evil she suffered, we are nevertheless confronted with Scripture, which says, "render not evil for evil."

What Janie did was understandable and excusable, but it was not right. The law should be about what is right and not based on human emotions. Extenuating circumstances are most often taken into consideration when judgment is passed but good law cannot be based on extenuating circumstances, it can only make allowances for them.

 

[TheDag]

If you abuse your position of power and oppress the people for long enough, you've gotta expect them to rebel eventually and it'll be all your fault. I've no sympathy for dictators or tyrants at all.

and who was asking you to have sympathy for tyrants???? Is this just another random post by you????

 

[TheDag]

So you're no fan of god?

the difference being I choose to follow God not forced to. just like you have a choice.

 

[Tahoenite]

I am aware of the Aerosmith song. It's problem is that we can make any amount of excuses to legitimize something we want. Even if it is a RL story it does not give legality to the ownership of guns.

Unfortunately many young girls have suffered molestation, most without the use of a gun; and many have overcome that abuse in other ways.

While both you and I may be ok with her obtaining and using a gun because we abhor the evil she suffered, we are nevertheless confronted with Scripture, which says, "render not evil for evil."

What Janie did was understandable and excusable, but it was not right. The law should be about what is right and not based on human emotions. Extenuating circumstances are most often taken into consideration when judgment is passed but good law cannot be based on extenuating circumstances, it can only make allowances for them.

From a biblical perspective the "father" would have been executed in the old testament to have the evil purged from the society. Jesus himself said that if someone caused one of these children to sin it would be better for them to have a mill stone tied around their neck and dropped into a the river. He deserved death, her shooting him could be considered just punishment.

If she had done it out of anger, cruelty, greed, or some other reason I would accept it as evil. She did not, what she did was in self defense from future attacks. In my reading and understanding of scripture I cannot say that she is not justified. I do not think it is a good thing, but it was an ugly situation from living in a fallen world. I think she did what she needed to do to survive.

 

[Tahoenite]

So you're no fan of god?

The Lord is not a tyrant, He gave us a choice. Eve chose the apple, and Adam chose Eve over God. The current world is accurate reflection of choices we have been allowed to make.

Argy you choice not to believe in Him is an incredible example of the freedom He has given you.

 

[Argy Lacedom]

Argy you choice not to believe in Him is an incredible example of the freedom He has given you.

Yet despite the fact that he has given me no verifieable evidence that he exists he will torture me for eternity because I have exercised a choice that he presented me???

Come on. If that's not the signature of a tyrant what is?

 

[luchsgud]

Yet despite the fact that he has given me no verifieable evidence that he exists he will torture me for eternity because I have exercised a choice that he presented me???

Come on. If that's not the signature of a tyrant what is?

lol. How are you argy?

 

[TheDag]

From a biblical perspective the "father" would have been executed in the old testament to have the evil purged from the society. Jesus himself said that if someone caused one of these children to sin it would be better for them to have a mill stone tied around their neck and dropped into a the river. He deserved death, her shooting him could be considered just punishment.

even then in the OT she would not have been the one to carry out the act. There were still the proper legal way to handle it. It was not a case of I'm just going to kill you for what you have done. Rather elders had to be involved and there were different ways of sentence being carried out.


In any case in the NT things changed. So yeah if we just look at the OT then we can justify so much more like condemning people for wearing clothing of mixed blend eg polyester cotton that virtually everybody wears today. In the NT I still see no justification for not going to authorities.

 

[Argy Lacedom]

lol. How are you argy?

Why would anyone worship a being who would condemn them to eternal suffering for exercising a choice he gave them?

Your god is a monster.

 

[luchsgud]

Why would anyone worship a being who would condemn them to eternal suffering for exercising a choice he gave them?

Your god is a monster.

Actually argy, I don't agree with that statement. He never gave you a choice, only the ability to choose. Then he instructed you how to choose right.

Your choice is your own responsibility, not his.

 

[Argy Lacedom]

It seems to me that there is a big double standard in Christian belief. On the one hand we are supposed to thank god for the gifts he gives us, like intelligence, mercy, musicality, etc.. On the other we are forbidden to blame him for our shortcomings.

If I am to thank him for the gift of intelligence isn't it only right that I should blame him for my inability to believe he exists?

If a perfect creator does not make his creation perfect then the creation is imperfect by intent, no? The creator therefore carries the responsibility for the creation's imperfections.

Condemning the creation to eternal suffering because it was not created perfectly is the act of a monstrous being that should be abhored, not worshipped.

 

[TheDag]

It seems to me that there is a big double standard in Christian belief. On the one hand we are supposed to thank god for the gifts he gives us, like intelligence, mercy, musicality, etc.. On the other we are forbidden to blame him for our shortcomings.

If I am to thank him for the gift of intelligence isn't it only right that I should blame him for my inability to believe he exists?

If a perfect creator does not make his creation perfect then the creation is imperfect by intent, no? The creator therefore carries the responsibility for the creation's imperfections.

Condemning the creation to eternal suffering because it was not created perfectly is the act of a monstrous being that should be abhored, not worshipped.

I don't know how intelligent you are or aren't but there are some pretty clever people who do believe so intelligence level has nothing to do with it.

Where in the christian belief does it say God did not create the world perfect? You won't find it. Death and decay are the result (comsequence) of sin. That is why it is not a perfect world.

 

[Argy Lacedom]

I don't know how intelligent you are or aren't but there are some pretty clever people who do believe so intelligence level has nothing to do with it.

If I do not have the gift of being able to believe is that my fault or my creator's?

Where in the christian belief does it say God did not create the world perfect? You won't find it. Death and decay are the result (comsequence) of sin. That is why it is not a perfect world.

Sin would never have arisen in a world created perfectly by a perfect creator unless the perfect creator intended it to be so. No?
.

 

[Tahoenite]

even then in the OT she would not have been the one to carry out the act. There were still the proper legal way to handle it. It was not a case of I'm just going to kill you for what you have done. Rather elders had to be involved and there were different ways of sentence being carried out.


In any case in the NT things changed. So yeah if we just look at the OT then we can justify so much more like condemning people for wearing clothing of mixed blend eg polyester cotton that virtually everybody wears today. In the NT I still see no justification for not going to authorities.

Yes they did have procedures to carry out justice, but they also has the "blood avenger" that would carry out an execution of if the accused person could not get to a city of refuge before they caught them. "at least in the case of wrongful death".

I agree it is biblicly questionable whether she should have shot him.