Jackson County, North Carolina, Leaders Vote to Keep Confederate Statue in Sylva — With Changes

[JimR-OCDS]

Sure, but I was addressing a different point. And, after all, it was legal in states that didn't secede, too.

Not true.

Between 1774 and 1804, all of the northern states abolished slavery, but the so-called “peculiar institution” of slavery remained absolutely vital to the South.

From Wikipedia

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There were also Southerners who refused to fight for the Confederacy and in fact helped the Union.'

The book, "The State of Jones," was about such a group in Mississippi. They resented the fact that poor southerners were being conscripted to fight in the war while plantation owners which had 20 slaves were exempt.

 

[Scott Husted]

You do understand: slavery IS what southern heritage (as conveyed by those statues) is about, right? If it wasn't they wouldn't need to have all those statues of traitors who fought to keep slaves all over the place.
tulc(kind of thought that part didn't need to be explained)

That's not what they convey to me ...

 

[Redwingfan9]

From the article:

Jackson County commissioners voted Tuesday to keep a Confederate statue in front of the historic courthouse in Sylva, but they also agreed to some changes. That decision is getting plenty of reaction.

{snip}

In an era of racial tension, the Confederate statue known as “Sylva Sam” overlooking the town is sparking debate. Sylva leaders sent Jackson County commissioners a resolution asking for its removal from the old county courthouse, out of town limits.

“I made a motion that we deny Sylva’s request,” Commission Chairman Brian McMahan said.

McMahan was part of a 4-1 vote Tuesday night to keep the statue where it is. But he said the board also agreed to an amendment.

“We are going to add a plaque to the front of the statue base covering up the Confederate flag with a list of Jackson County’s involvement in the Civil War,” he said. “Our ‘Heroes of the Confederacy’ will be removed from the base.”

McMahan said it’s a compromise.

{snip}

The president of the local NAACP said he would have preferred the statue’s removal. But, he said, he sees the compromise, too, reworking the statue’s context. He said questions will remain.

{snip}

Original article: Jackson County leaders vote to keep Confederate statue in Sylva -- with changes

Way too much is made over Confederate monuments on all sides. Tearing down history is ridiculous but so to is glorifying these people beyond the intent of these monuments.

 

[Albion]

Not true.

Between 1774 and 1804, all of the northern states abolished slavery, but the so-called “peculiar institution” of slavery remained absolutely vital to the South.

From Wikipedia

You must have read that rather quickly. This is from the same article:

President Lincoln had issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, which exempted from emancipation the border states (four slave states loyal to the Union) as well as some territories occupied by Union forces within Confederate states.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You must have read that rather quickly. This is from the same article:

The slave states that stayed in the Union, Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky (called border states) remained seated in the U.S. Congress. By the time the Emancipation Proclamation was issued in 1863, Tennessee was already under Union control.

Lincoln did not free enslaved slaves in those states because he did not want those states to join the Confederacy.

But make not mistake about it, the Civil War was about slavery for Lincoln and at the end of the Civil War, slavery became illegal

 

[JimR-OCDS]

On September 22, 1862, President Abraham Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, which declared that as of January 1, 1863, all enslaved people in the states currently engaged in rebellion against the Union “shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free.”

Lincoln didn’t actually free any of the approximately 4 million men, women and children held in slavery in the United States when he signed the formal Emancipation Proclamation the following January. The document applied only to enslaved people in the Confederacy, and not to those in the border states that remained loyal to the Union.

But although it was presented chiefly as a military measure, the proclamation marked a crucial shift in Lincoln’s views on slavery. Emancipation would redefine the Civil War, turning it from a struggle to preserve the Union to one focused on ending slavery, and set a decisive course for how the nation would be reshaped after that historic conflict.

https://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/emancipation-proclamation

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I also understand that for all the people I knew from the South, the Confederate Flag and monuments for them was about southern pride and not nostalgia about slavery.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I served in the Marines back in 1970.

I remember a couple of black guys from the south, who came into our platoon in Okinawa, and they put up the Confederate Flag in their cubicle, as a show of southern pride. They were quickly informed by other blacks to take it down for it represented to them, slavery and white supremacy.

We had lots of race problems in the Military back then, and it was driven mostly by a few blacks who had racists issues of their own. They hated whites, period.

 

[GenemZ]

The south was not fighting to keep slavery. Some states may have made that an issue, but it was not the reason for the war. It was a war fighting for Constitutional state's rights.

Slavery only became an issue when Abraham Lincoln was seeking more ways to garner support and did so to appease the abolitionists. I am not saying slavery should not have been abolished. But, done so by the will of the people in due time.

As the Antichrist's hidden system always tries to accomplish, it wishes to find a way to distract away from a righteous principle people are thinking about, and to push through and destroy the concept that threatens the establishment of a one world order.

Constitutional State's rights was a powerful, anti - Antichrist, system blocker. One that principalities and powers hated seeing prosper! It stood in the way of their desire to form a one world order.

For those who may not be aware... Even though the Antichrist is not yet on earth and in the public eye.. the Antichrist system has always been with us! Its always working behind the scenes (as we see with deep state) maneuvering when it can, to line things up while awaiting the appearance of the Antichrist.

Yes... the Antichrist system was in operation during the Civil War. It was wishing to destroy the golden values and principles upon which the USA Constitution was founded.

We have totally lost track as to why the Civil war was initially started! It was not over slavery. It was about states rights.

The Antichrist system? Here with us in this present day? Yes!

Paul had to warn the Thessalonians who were in a panic having heard that the Antichrist was already taking over.. Paul explained what was needed before that could take place. He also explained how just the same the evil system of the Antichrist (that wishes to destroy human freedom) is always busy trying to make things ready for the AC's appearance.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come
unless the falling away comes first ("the departure" [apostasia -
the Rapture of the Church] = removal of the Church then the
Tribulation will begin) and the man of sin is revealed, the son of
perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God
or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these
things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed
in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
​

The American Civil war was an attempt to destroy a nation founded upon human freedom. The real issue over the war got ricocheted, and was made to appear to be over slavery.

That same diverted concept is with us till today, and used to manipulate Americans into feeling guilty as to divide us as a people. We never discuss states rights anymore. Its always about slavery which needed to be ended in a an orderly and lawful way.

Anyway... The Lord knows we are weak. He also knows we can choose to refuse knowledge. And, as a result, our human freedoms will perish one by one.

grace and peace......

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The south was not fighting to keep slavery. Some states may have made that an issue, but it was not the reason for the war. It was a war fighting for Constitutional state's rights.

Slavery only became an issue when Abraham Lincoln was seeking more ways to garner support and did so to appease the abolitionists. I am not saying slavery should not have been abolished. But, done so by the will of the people in due time.

As the Antichrist system always tries to accomplish, it wishes to find a way to distract away from a righteous principle people are thinking about, and to push through and destroy the concept that threatens the establishment of a one world order.

Constitutional State's rights was a powerful anti - Antichrist system blocker. One that principalities and powers hated seeing prosper! It stood in the way of their desire to form a one world order.

For those who may not be aware... The Antichrist system has always been with us! Its always working behind the scenes (deep state) maneuvering when it can to line things up awaiting the appearance of the Antichrist.

Yes... the Antichrist system was in operation during the Civil War, wishing to destroy the golden values and principles upon which the USA Constitution was founded.

We have totally lost track as to why the Civil war was initially started!

Paul had to warn the Thessalonians who were in a panic having heard that the Antichrist was already taking over.. Paul explained what was needed before that could take place. He also explained how just the same the evil system of the Antichrist (that wishes to destroy human freedom) is busy trying to make things ready for the AC's appearance.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come
unless the falling away comes first ("the departure" [apostasia -
the Rapture of the Church] = removal of the Church then the
Tribulation will begin) and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God
or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.​

The Civil war was an attempt to destroy a nation founded upon human freedom. The issue over the war got ricocheted and was made to appear to be over slavery. That same diversion is with us till today, and used to manipulate American into feeling of guilt as to divide us as a people. We never discuss states rights anymore. Its always about slavery which needed to be ended in a lawful way.

Anyway... The Lord knows we are weak. He also knows we will refuse knowledge. And, as a result, our human freedoms will perish one by one.

grace and peace......

None sense !

It's true the ordinary southerner was fighting for the states rights, but the eleite in those southern states started the entire war to protect slavery.

The entire right to states rights had to do with the states to determine if or not to keep slavery legal.

All the debates in Congress and with the president, were centered around slavery.

History revisionists try to tap dance around the reality.

 

[GenemZ]

None sense !

It's true the ordinary southerner was fighting for the states rights, but the eleite in those southern states started the entire war to protect slavery.

The entire right to states rights had to do with the states to determine if or not to keep slavery legal.

All the debates in Congress and with the president, were centered around slavery.

History revisionists try to tap dance around the reality.

Yes... it became "an" issue. But, not "the" issue.

It became centered around slavery later in the war as to boost morale of the abolitionists. Abraham Lincoln did not begin the war based upon that factor. What I said is not revisionist. Your argument is the later developed damage control after rational people began to critique what took place.

Immediately following the attack, four more states -- Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee -- severed their ties with the Union. To retain the loyalty of the remaining border states -- Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri -- President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however -- most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people. The Civil War​

 

[tulc]

Yes... it became "an" issue. But, not "the" issue.

It became centered around slavery later in the war as to boost morale. Abraham Lincoln did not start the war based up that factor. It not revisionist. Your argument is damage control after rational people began to critique what took place.

...than why was slavery a reason States gave for leaving? Been here?
Which States Referred to Slavery in Their Cause of Secession?
or here:
The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
tulc(is just curious)

 

[JackRT]

Okay, you want an actual monument that (I think) conveys actual southern history? Check out this one:

Why an Alabama Town Has a Monument Honoring the Most Destructive Pest in American History | History | Smithsonian Magazine

tulc(might also point out according to the plaque, this county has the best name of any county in the USA EVER)

Then there is the town of Climax Saskatchewan.

 

[tulc]

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
and just in case anyone has a hard time wading through 19th century diplomatic speak:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights,

She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

those were the documents they sent as to why they were leaving the Union. Every one of those lists slavery as one of the big reasons they're leaving.
tulc(hopes that helps)

 

[Albion]

Lincoln did not free enslaved slaves in those states because he did not want those states to join the Confederacy.

In other words, these indeed were slave states, even during the war and even though they did not seceded from the Union.

 

[iluvatar5150]

There were also Southerners who refused to fight for the Confederacy and in fact helped the Union.'

The book, "The State of Jones," was about such a group in Mississippi. They resented the fact that poor southerners were being conscripted to fight in the war while plantation owners which had 20 slaves were exempt.

There's a pretty decent film adaptation starring Matthew McConaughey.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There's a pretty decent film adaptation starring Matthew McConaughey.

The book was far better than the movie

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In other words, these indeed were slave states, even during the war and even though they did not seceded from the Union.

But ending slavery was the game plan and what resulted at the end of the Civil War, despite those states keeping slavery. They ended up as free states in the end, which was Lincoln's goal

 

[GenemZ]

But ending slavery was the game plan and what resulted at the end of the Civil War, despite those states keeping slavery. They ended up as free states in the end, which was Lincoln's goal

Lincoln had a plan to send the freed slaves to Liberia.
https://www.history.com/news/slavery-american-colonization-society-liberia
That never happened because Lincoln was assassinated.

Lincoln believed .. like the Jews were sent elsewhere after freedom from Egypt... that for freed slaves to remain in the nation that freed them would cause strife and trouble.

The Lord had different plans, though. Its the church in Christ that makes men truly free. Religious people have no idea what that means.