Jackson County, North Carolina, Leaders Vote to Keep Confederate Statue in Sylva — With Changes

[JimR-OCDS]

Lincoln had a plan to send the freed slaves to Liberia.
https://www.history.com/news/slavery-american-colonization-society-liberia
That never happened because Lincoln was assassinated.

Lincoln believed .. like the Jews were sent elsewhere after freedom from Egypt... that for freed slaves to remain in the nation that freed them would cause strife and trouble.

The Lord had different plans, though. Its the church in Christ that makes men truly free. Religious people have no idea what that means.

The question on what to do with freed slaves goes back to Thomas Jefferson, who was perplexed on the issue himself and why he didn't free his own slaves.

Here's what Lincoln actually said in the article you linked;

“If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,–to their own native land. But a moment’s reflection would convince me, that whatever of high hope, (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible. If they were all landed there in a day, they would all perish in the next ten days; and there are not surplus shipping and surplus money enough in the world to carry them there in many times ten days."

Yeah Lincoln pondered the question, but rejected the idea as you see above.

 

[GenemZ]

The question on what to do with freed slaves goes back to Thomas Jefferson, who was perplexed on the issue himself and why he didn't free his own slaves.

Here's what Lincoln actually said in the article you linked;

“If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,–to their own native land. But a moment’s reflection would convince me, that whatever of high hope, (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible. If they were all landed there in a day, they would all perish in the next ten days; and there are not surplus shipping and surplus money enough in the world to carry them there in many times ten days."

Yeah Lincoln pondered the question, but rejected the idea as you see above.

He pondered it for good reason in the eyes of those trying to deal with a very real problem.

What they did not know was how the Church was to transform these freed slaves. No one is perfect. Not now anyway. Yet, God is making His point about His grace being able to transform lives.

Those freed slaves needed to go through their own Exodus in the wilderness experience. Keep in mind, the Lord was displeased with almost all of those adult Jews who had come out of slavery of Egypt. They clung to their slave mentality. Almost all of them were killed off in the forty year trek. They wished to kill Moses and deeply resented him. They had the slave mentality that God needed to remove from the Jews as a people. .

It was the younger generation that would listen to Moses teachings. It was the younger generation who accepted the teachings of Moses who entered the promised land.

Only two adult families of the Exodus entered the promised land. All the others God killed off in the wilderness. Caleb and Joshua. Both powerful in faith and had been faithful to Moses.

 

[Running2win]

It's also about preserving history. Let's not forget it, lest we repeat it.

This is what I believe and already made some points on another forum. This shows what the community can get together and compromise on. No matter what our opinion is, it's their choice, not ours.

Let the communities work out their own solutions without non-local protesters coming in and "demanding" historical statues, artwork, and monuments be taken down.

 

[GenemZ]

The question on what to do with freed slaves goes back to Thomas Jefferson, who was perplexed on the issue himself and why he didn't free his own slaves.

Here's what Lincoln actually said in the article you linked;

“If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,–to their own native land. But a moment’s reflection would convince me, that whatever of high hope, (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible. If they were all landed there in a day, they would all perish in the next ten days; and there are not surplus shipping and surplus money enough in the world to carry them there in many times ten days."

Yeah Lincoln pondered the question, but rejected the idea as you see above.

That was said by Lincoln at that moment. But, history shows another side as well..

According to the Encyclopedia of Georgia History and Culture, "as early as 1820, black Americans had begun to return to their ancestral homeland through the auspices of the American Colonization Society." By 1847, the American Colonization Society founded Liberia, a land to be settled by black people returning from the United States of America. Between 1822 and the American Civil War, the American Colonization Society had migrated approximately 15,000 free blacks back to Africa. Notable members of the American Colonization Society included Thomas Buchanan, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, James Madison, Daniel Webster, John Marshall, and Francis Scott Key. All were white and most were Southern. In addition, most were slaveowners.

​

Back-to-Africa movement - Wikipedia​

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That was said by Lincoln at that moment. But, history shows another side as well..

According to the Encyclopedia of Georgia History and Culture, "as early as 1820, black Americans had begun to return to their ancestral homeland through the auspices of the American Colonization Society." By 1847, the American Colonization Society founded Liberia, a land to be settled by black people returning from the United States of America. Between 1822 and the American Civil War, the American Colonization Society had migrated approximately 15,000 free blacks back to Africa. Notable members of the American Colonization Society included Thomas Buchanan, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, James Madison, Daniel Webster, John Marshall, and Francis Scott Key. All were white and most were Southern. In addition, most were slaveowners.

​

Back-to-Africa movement - Wikipedia​

Encyclopedia of Georgia History and Culture

They wouldn't have a bias would they ?

 

[GenemZ]

Encyclopedia of Georgia History and Culture

They wouldn't have a bias would they ?

I live in Georgia... I grew up in NY.


The University of Georgia Press is a founding partner of the New Georgia Encyclopedia (NGE). Originally launched in 2004 and redesigned in 2013, the NGE is the first state encyclopedia to be conceived and designed exclusively for publication online. This authoritative resource contains original content and helps users understand the rich history and diverse culture of Georgia’s still-unfolding story.
https://ugapress.org/resources/new-georgia-encyclopedia/



Deal with the facts stated...not your diversion. Facts are facts.

How was there bias in what was said?

And, while you are at it? Go back to the original quotes page and look at all the reference on the bottom of the page? Back-to-Africa movement - Wikipedia



Well... I see some references even from Ohio. What's your point? Do you have one?

Speaking of bias? So, do you have one?

grace and peace........

 

[GenemZ]

Encyclopedia of Georgia History and Culture

They wouldn't have a bias would they ?

By the way... I got my original facts about Lincoln from my Pastor who grew up in California. Who taught history on a PhD level.

I did the web search for the info so I could reference it here.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I live in Georgia... I grew up in NY.


The University of Georgia Press is a founding partner of the New Georgia Encyclopedia (NGE). Originally launched in 2004 and redesigned in 2013, the NGE is the first state encyclopedia to be conceived and designed exclusively for publication online. This authoritative resource contains original content and helps users understand the rich history and diverse culture of Georgia’s still-unfolding story.
https://ugapress.org/resources/new-georgia-encyclopedia/



Deal with the facts stated...not your diversion. Facts are facts.

How was there bias in what was said?

And, while you are at it? Go back to the original quotes page and look at all the reference on the bottom of the page? Back-to-Africa movement - Wikipedia



Well... I see some references even from Ohio. What's your point? Do you have one?

Speaking of bias? So, do you have one?

grace and peace........

The facts are, Lincoln opposed slavery and ended it.

How that came about is complex including a civil war

But trying to whitewash the South's role in slavery is what's disingenuous.

 

[Albion]

The facts are, Lincoln opposed slavery and ended it.

But as a way to save the Union, not as a moral commitment. That's what he said, anyway.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But as a way to save the Union, not as a moral commitment. That's what he said, anyway.

His writings before he became president show his moral opposition to slavery.

The book, " A Team of Rivals," by the historian Doris Kearns Goodwin provides a look at Lincoln's moral opposition to slavery.

I also heard her being interviewed and asked about those who claim the civil war wasn't about ending slavery. She calls this revisionists history which are not supported with facts, but piece meal posts trying to show that Lincoln would've kept slavery in tact if it meant keeping the union together.


Here's a quote from another book;


As a fit and necessary military measure for effecting this object [preservation of the Union], I, as Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, do order and declare that on the first day of January in the year of our Lord 1863, all persons held as slaves within any state or states, wherein the constitutional authority of the United States shall not then be practically recognized, submitted to, and maintained, shall then, thenceforward and forever, be free.

 

[GenemZ]

The facts are, Lincoln opposed slavery and ended it.

How that came about is complex including a civil war

But trying to whitewash the South's role in slavery is what's disingenuous.

Who's white washing? ....

 

[GenemZ]

His writings before he became president show his moral opposition to slavery.

The book, " A Team of Rivals," by the historian Doris Kearns Goodwin provides a look at Lincoln's moral opposition to slavery.

I also heard her being interviewed and asked about those who claim the civil war wasn't about ending slavery. She calls this revisionists history which are not supported with facts, but piece meal posts trying to show that Lincoln would've kept slavery in tact if it meant keeping the union together.

Everyone is either a revisionist, or a counter revisionist.

https://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation

1. Lincoln wasn’t an abolitionist.

2. Lincoln didn’t believe black people should have the same rights as white people.

3. Lincoln thought colonization could resolve the issue of slavery.
4. Emancipation was a military policy.

5. The Emancipation Proclamation didn’t actually free all enslaved people.


https://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation

 

[Albion]

His writings before he became president show his moral opposition to slavery.

You referred to him as having "ended it," however.

Lincoln, as commander in chief during the war was committed to saving the union--with slaves or without slaves--and quite definitely did not see it as a crusade for ending slavery.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You referred to him as having "ended it," however.

Lincoln, as commander in chief during the war was committed to saving the union--with slaves or without slaves--and quite definitely did not see it as a crusade for ending slavery.

And as the article you linked, in conjunction with what the historian Janet Kearns Goodwin has written, Lincoln brought an end to slavery in steps as he knew politically, he couldn't just end it with on an EO. Again, his private writings to his friends, he wrote about how he saw slavery as immoral.

The first sentence in the article you linked:

1. Lincoln wasn’t an abolitionist.
Abraham Lincoln did believe that slavery was morally wrong, but there was one big problem: It was sanctioned by the highest law in the land, the Constitution.

He did believe slavery was morally wrong and he eventually believed that freed slaves could be equal to that of whites, but it was an evolved position of which he arrived at before his death. The article you linked stated;

What he did believe was that, like all men, black men had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

Like his views on emancipation, Lincoln’s position on social and political equality for African Americans would evolve over the course of his presidency. In the last speech of his life, delivered on April 11, 1865, he argued for limited black suffrage, saying that any black man who had served the Union during the Civil War should have the right to vote.

As Janet Kearns Goodwin wrote so well in her book, Lincoln had to deal with the politics of his time.

Her book, "A Team of Rivals," she shows how Lincoln's own cabinet members had staunchly opposed him when he was running for president. They were shocked when he asked them to be part of his cabinet. FYI, FDR did the same when he asked his enemy, Joe Kennedy to set up the Stock Exchange, but that's a different story.

Like most wise men, Lincoln wanted people around who thought differently, so he could check his own thoughts.

Anyway, you believe Lincoln just wanted to preserve the union, which many people in the South believe and many today believe that as well, so they can justify hatred of Lincoln. I don't agree and neither do most historians, but how all of this fits into our world today other than to justify hatred of Lincoln by those who vandalized his statue.

 

[GenemZ]

And as the article you linked, in conjunction with what the historian Janet Kearns Goodwin has written, Lincoln brought an end to slavery in steps as he knew politically, he couldn't just end it with on an EO. Again, his private writings to his friends, he wrote about how he saw slavery as immoral.

The first sentence in the article you linked:

1. Lincoln wasn’t an abolitionist.
Abraham Lincoln did believe that slavery was morally wrong, but there was one big problem: It was sanctioned by the highest law in the land, the Constitution.

He did believe slavery was morally wrong and he eventually believed that freed slaves could be equal to that of whites, but it was an evolved position of which he arrived at before his death. The article you linked stated;

What he did believe was that, like all men, black men had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor. In this way they were equal to white men, and for this reason slavery was inherently unjust.

Like his views on emancipation, Lincoln’s position on social and political equality for African Americans would evolve over the course of his presidency. In the last speech of his life, delivered on April 11, 1865, he argued for limited black suffrage, saying that any black man who had served the Union during the Civil War should have the right to vote.

As Janet Kearns Goodwin wrote so well in her book, Lincoln had to deal with the politics of his time.

Her book, "A Team of Rivals," she shows how Lincoln's own cabinet members had staunchly opposed him when he was running for president. They were shocked when he asked them to be part of his cabinet. FYI, FDR did the same when he asked his enemy, Joe Kennedy to set up the Stock Exchange, but that's a different story.

Like most wise men, Lincoln wanted people around who thought differently, so he could check his own thoughts.

Anyway, you believe Lincoln just wanted to preserve the union, which many people in the South believe and many today believe that as well, so they can justify hatred of Lincoln. I don't agree and neither do most historians, but how all of this fits into our world today other than to justify hatred of Lincoln by those who vandalized his statue.

George Washington also thought slavery was morally wrong. Yet many who did owned salves.

How did the Jews fair after God released them in the Exodus? Was God pleased with them?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

George Washington also thought slavery was morally wrong. Yet many who did owned salves.

How did the Jews fair after God released them in the Exodus? Was God pleased with them?

Did George Washington end slavery ? No

Lincoln did, despite you selective understanding on the issue

 

[GenemZ]

Did George Washington end slavery ? No

Lincoln did, despite you selective understanding on the issue

You still miss the point. None of them went to war to end it. It was not seen as the solution for the problem. The issue only crept in when Lincoln needed to reboot his waning support during the war.


Because of Lincoln’s special place in U.S. history, and especially in his role as the “Great Emancipator,” it can be difficult to face certain facts squarely, such as the fact that Lincoln came late to the anti-slavery cause and, at every stage, trailed behind others who were more committed, more able to rise above the pervasive racism, more willing to risk their reputations for the cause. But no abolitionist could ever have become president in 1860.

Lincoln was no abolitionist.

During the 1830s and ‘40s, when he was an Illinois legislator and a practicing lawyer, Lincoln was involved in a smattering of cases involving slavery. He represented clients on both sides of the issue. In the worst instance, he represented a Kentucky slaveholder seeking to have his slaves returned to him by the courts of Illinois. (Lincoln lost the case, by the way.)


Facing facts about Lincoln and his views on slavery | MinnPost

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You still miss the point. None of them went to war to end it. It was not seen as the solution for the problem. The issue only crept in when Lincoln needed to reboot his waning support during the war.


Because of Lincoln’s special place in U.S. history, and especially in his role as the “Great Emancipator,” it can be difficult to face certain facts squarely, such as the fact that Lincoln came late to the anti-slavery cause and, at every stage, trailed behind others who were more committed, more able to rise above the pervasive racism, more willing to risk their reputations for the cause. But no abolitionist could ever have become president in 1860.

Lincoln was no abolitionist.

During the 1830s and ‘40s, when he was an Illinois legislator and a practicing lawyer, Lincoln was involved in a smattering of cases involving slavery. He represented clients on both sides of the issue. In the worst instance, he represented a Kentucky slaveholder seeking to have his slaves returned to him by the courts of Illinois. (Lincoln lost the case, by the way.)


Facing facts about Lincoln and his views on slavery | MinnPost

The American Civil War was fought between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America, a collection of eleven southern states that left the Union in 1860 and 1861. The conflict began primarily as a result of the long-standing disagreement over the institution of slavery.

10 Facts: What Everyone Should Know About the Civil War.

 

[GenemZ]

The American Civil War was fought between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America, a collection of eleven southern states that left the Union in 1860 and 1861. The conflict began primarily as a result of the long-standing disagreement over the institution of slavery.

10 Facts: What Everyone Should Know About the Civil War.

You seriously think we would still have slavery today if the North did not win?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You seriously think we would still have slavery today if the North did not win?

I don't know about today, but after the war, the South would've kept slavery, no two ways about it.

In fact, after the war and the emancipation of slaves, Southern States passed anti-vagrancy laws, so that freed black slaves who would not be employed, would be arrested and put on chain gangs working in fields doing the jobs they were suppose to be freed from.

Heck, blacks didn't even get the right to vote in states like Alabama, until the Civil Rights Act was signed by President Johnson in 1964.

Yeah had the Union lost, slavery would've continued and things would be far different in this country, have no doubt about it