It's really this simple...

[Bob S]

Please show us where Adam and Eve observed resting as God did after creating everything. If, indeed, you cannot, and I contend you cannot, then why would you make statements on the forum that you cannot defend with Scripture or even history?

Then please show us where God made every seventh day a day of worship for all mankind and give us some evidence of any nation other than Israel ever observing every seventh day.

 

[clefty]

Please show us where Adam and Eve observed resting as God did after creating everything.

I can't even show you if they kept the other commandments...well until they didn't...

then I can show you those they did NOT keep...it doesn't say they did NOT rest that first full day of the Adamic covenant...

can't show you if they even ate of the other trees...or walked...I can show you where they heard Him walking...so I imagine since maybe He walked and since they were made in His Image so maybe they walked too? Hmmm...

I can also show you where He cursed everything He created... the animals the humans the ground but NOT TIME its seventh day temple...I can show you when He made a day HOLY but NOT when He cursed it unholy...

Oh and I can show you that when He handed THIS church in the wilderness at Sinai the living oracles...saying “REMEMBER” to US (in the ONLY commandment to include those not of Jacob) that He rested after six days of work and is WHY we should...you know being made in His image to DO as He did...

Because even OUR Lord of the Sabbath reminded us again "the Sabbath was made for MAN" not just Jews...and WHEN was man created? When was Sabbath MADE for the man created?

I mean is marriage NOT for us...just for Jews?...it was instituted about the same time Sabbath was...

If, indeed, you cannot, and I contend you cannot, then why would you make statements on the forum that you cannot defend with Scripture or even history?

Then please show us where God made every seventh day a day of worship for all mankind and give us some evidence of any nation other than Israel ever observing every seventh day.

Even Israel and Jews did NOT keep the Sabbath holy...so what...just throw it out?

Or realize EVERYTHING created that week was MADE FOR MAN...or did the Creator need the rest? the memorial for Himself to remind Himself of what He did?

Did He expect MAN to do something He did NOT? WORK WITHOUT REST?

you sir have fallen from grace lol...the grace of rest unearned undeserved but a gift given even PRIOR sin...please reconsider His offer...His way of Life as He created in the beginning for us His people to observe and enjoy...

to be MORE like Him His times and Law since His people will return to it as per Isaiah 66:22-23

might as well get used to it now...as Adam and Eve did then...in His IMAGE as He did...until they didn't having decided to ADD to the word and reject what He had made for them...

 

[clefty]

So then if they were to take God's name in vain in Eden before eating the apple - you agree that would have been sin right?

Rom 4:15 where there is no law, there also is no violation.
1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the law".

the moral law of God is eternal. There was never a time when it was right for Angels or humans to "take God's name in vain". It would always have been a sin.

Gal 3:8 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

But where exactly is the text that details how Abraham "saw Christ's day and was glad" in the book of Genesis?

The book of Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for the first 1600 years of Earth's history.

I read His Law is HOW He revealed Himself to us...how His IMMORTALITY can be understood...what is Holy PURE and of Him? and forever...

What is Love?...What is His Love?

What is the Image we are made in?

What are we created to DO?

And then He came to teach and demonstrate all this Himself...

Can't believe the amount of energy spent in REJECTING a day off...a gift

But of course they reject Him too...

 

[clefty]

Please show us where Adam and Eve observed resting as God did after creating everything. If, indeed, you cannot, and I contend you cannot, then why would you make statements on the forum that you cannot defend with Scripture or even history?

Then please show us where God made every seventh day a day of worship for all mankind and give us some evidence of any nation other than Israel ever observing every seventh day.

HEY!! How about this?

Commentary
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
In process of time - מקץ ימים mikkets yamim, at the end of days. Some think the anniversary of the creation to be here intended; it is more probable that it means the Sabbath, on which Adam and his family undoubtedly offered oblations to God, as the Divine worship was certainly instituted, and no doubt the Sabbath properly observed in that family. This worship was, in its original institution, very simple. It appears to have consisted of two parts:

Genesis 4:3 NIV: In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD.


Some more commentary here that "mikkets yamim" is probable the Sabbath:

Genesis 4:3 - So it came about... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Jonathan Edwards says in one of his sermons: What could be the meaning of God s resting the seventh day, and hallowing and blessing it, which He did, before the giving of the fourth commandment, unless He hallowed and blessed it with respect to mankind? . . . And it is unreasonable to suppose that He hallowed it only with respect to the Jews, a particular nation, which rose up above 2000 years after. 3

http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/Sabbath/The Sabbath From Eden To Sinai.pdf

I mean they did bring sacrifices for a reason yes? First fruits?

And again...Yah told Cain SIN crouches at your door...Gen 4:7 and what is sin? Transgression of Law...so which Laws were established? Which oh His living oracles? and which were withheld at this point?

I say certainly the Sabbath continued outside the Garden...

I mean...you know...Adam and Eve knew...and REMEMBERED it was MADE HOLY...and NOT UNMADE and now UNHOLY...like everything created but now cursed...

and also that they were made in Our image...to LIVE “as one of us”...

I guess I will leave it at:

we know Adam breathed...so surely Eve did right?

We also know He breathed...as did Adam made in Our image...

So also His resting the seventh day and making it Holy has Adam and Eve doing it too....as they were made in Our image to live as “one of us”...as it was NOT written they did NOT...

 

[Soyeong]

I think you misunderstood my point, it was not to argue if the commandments were disobeyed, but if they were even in affect until the law was given to Moses

Laws for how to express God's nature have existed for as long as God's nature has been eternal. In Romans 5:13, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted counted where there is no law. So all of the laws that God has ever given were in effect in the Garden in the sense people could sin by not acting in accordance with them, but were not in effect until they were given in the sense that there sins were counted against them. However, it did not take long for God to give them laws because He said to Cain in Genesis 4:7 that sin was crouching at the door and that he must master it, which implies that Cain already knew what sin is and that he had been given laws in that regard.

 

[BobRyan]

I think you misunderstood my point, it was not to argue if the commandments were disobeyed, but if they were even in affect until the law was given to Moses

Let's pick a few --

for example "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.

Is there any reason to suppose that it was ok to take God's name in vain in Genesis 2?, 3?, 4?
What about honoring/dishonoring parents Ex 20:12 -- in Genesis 4 would it have been ok to dishonor parents?

Ex 20:11 is the last verse in the Sabbath commandment and it points back to Genesis 2:1-3 for its origin

 

[Kenny'sID]

Laws for how to express God's nature have existed for as long as God's nature has been eternal. In Romans 5:13, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted counted where there is no law. So all of the laws that God has ever given were in effect in the Garden in the sense people could sin by not acting in accordance with them, but were not in effect until they were given in the sense that there sins were counted against them. However, it did not take long for God to give them laws because He said to Cain in Genesis 4:7 that sin was crouching at the door and that he must master it, which implies that Cain already knew what sin is and that he had been given laws in that regard.

Exactly my point. It would be like expecting people to abide by a set of rules, without providing the rules. Some here claim there were a full set of rules or law, but I haven't seen any solid evidence of that.

Also, aside from the rule of not partaking of the one tree, and assuming he did not set up a system of law/rules in eden, it makes perfect sense God would not. That way he could just sit back and see how they acted.

Unfortunately, they couldn't even keep the one law.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Is there any reason to suppose that it was ok to take God's name in vain in Genesis 2?, 3?, 4?
What about honoring/dishonoring parents Ex 20:12 -- in Genesis 4 would it have been ok to dishonor parents?

Those arvuments doent work, as they can always be countered with such as, was there any reason to suppose it was not ok.

On the sabbath, its debatable that was a law at the time, however, it is possible..

And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

 

[BobRyan]

I think you misunderstood my point, it was not to argue if the commandments were disobeyed, but if they were even in affect until the law was given to Moses

Let's pick a few --

for example "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.

Is there any reason to suppose that it was ok to take God's name in vain in Genesis 2?, 3?, 4?
What about honoring/dishonoring parents Ex 20:12 -- in Genesis 4 would it have been ok to dishonor parents?

Ex 20:11 is the last verse in the Sabbath commandment and it points back to Genesis 2:1-3 for its origin

Those arvuments doent work, as they can always be countered with such as, was there any reason to suppose it was not ok.
.

I agree that is a valid question but it would take a rare Christian set of doctrines indeed to argue that there is no reason to think it was against the Law of God to take God's name in vain for the first 2000 years of human history. That set of people would be a tiny minority claiming God was just fine with taking His name in vain for 2000 years..

And of course the "clean vs unclean" animal definition did get written by Moses for his readers until he gets to Leviticus 11... yet they are introduced in Genesis 7... How then would Noah know which was which -- go forward in time to Lev 11?

Clearly not every word spoken for the first 2000 years of Earth's history is recorded in the Bible.

So we note that almost all denominations are on record as not going down that road...
==========================
For example of a few that affirm all TEN of the TEN commandments from Eden to this very day -- and included in the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant:


The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Let's pick a few --

for example "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.

Is there any reason to suppose that it was ok to take God's name in vain in Genesis 2?, 3?, 4?
What about honoring/dishonoring parents Ex 20:12 -- in Genesis 4 would it have been ok to dishonor parents?

Ex 20:11 is the last verse in the Sabbath commandment and it points back to Genesis 2:1-3 for its origin



I agree that is a valid question but it would take a rare Christian set of doctrines indeed to argue that there is no reason to think it was against the Law of God to take God's name in vain for the first 2000 years of human history. That set of people would be a tiny minority claiming God was just fine with taking His name in vain for 2000 years..

And of course the "clean vs unclean" animal definition did get written by Moses for his readers until he gets to Leviticus 11... yet they are introduced in Genesis 7... How then would Noah know which was which -- go forward in time to Lev 11?

Clearly not every word spoken for the first 2000 years of Earth's history is recorded in the Bible.

So we note that almost all denominations are on record as not going down that road...
==========================
For example of a few that affirm all TEN of the TEN commandments from Eden to this very day -- and included in the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant:


The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Mainly, there would be no reason to take his name in vain, hence no law necessary.

Also, It makes perfect sense to me, people learned to do that much later, as others did not walk so closely to God that they would never consider doing such a thing, and thats assuming there even was such a thing known to man as taking any name in vain.

 

[BobRyan]

Mainly, there would be no reason to take his name in vain,

I would hope everyone would feel that way. But the sinless beings in heaven - that included Lucifer eventually came to question that.

And one would assume that at some point before Cain kills Abel - he dishonored his parents at least a time or two. James 2 "break one... break them all"..

James 2 says that the thing that determines obligation is "He who said"... not a careful parsing out to dissect the moral law of God by man.

So then God makes the distinction a bit easier - by placing the ten "in stone" and inside the ark.

And of course even easier for NT saints as he reminds us that in that distinct "unit of ten" the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

 

[BobRyan]

Please show us where Adam and Eve observed resting as God did .

Ex 20:11 says they were given the Sabbath on the 7th day.

And of course - they were also not taking God's name in vain back then either.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I would hope everyone would feel that way. But the sinless beings in heaven - that included Lucifer eventually came to question that.

And one would assume that at some point before Cain kills Abel - he dishonored his parents at least a time or two. James 2 "break one... break them all"

Yes, they did eventually...just sayin those in the garden seemed fairly new to it all. But the truth is, it was all so long ago and completly out of our sight so, at least in the here and now, unless the bible makes it very clear, we have no idea what went on in eden.

 

[clefty]

Yes, they did eventually...just sayin those in the garden seemed fairly new to it all. But the truth is, it was all so long ago and completly out of our sight so, at least in the here and now, unless the bible makes it very clear, we have no idea what went on in eden.

You think if Adam worshipped another god or made images and worshipped Him through them or killed or stole or committed sexual immorality that it would NOT be a problem...or even recorded?

Or for you does every high rise window need a sign on it "do NOT jump out"...

but maybe after a few people do?...

I mean if every kid jumped off the bridge you would right? NO SIGNS not to right? And since people are...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Or for you does every high rise window need a sign on it "do NOT jump out"...

I think i made that pont already, in that they would not want to do those things to God to begin with, so no laws were needed.

 

[clefty]

I think i made that pont already, in that they would not want to do those things to God to begin with, so no laws were needed.

oh good...YOU made the point that it is this simple:

we are to do what was done in the garden of Eden...

including their desire to do as He did and rest the seventh day as He did after six days of work...

a 10 for 10 of a keeping of the Law...

add to that they ate NO unclean meat...lol

the lifestyle PRIOR the fall is the lifestyle we should live NOW...AND the one we will be restored too...RE-MADE INTO HIS IMAGE...on earth as it is in heaven...Finally and forever

see? simple...

as you also pointed out...

 

[Kenny'sID]

oh good...YOU made the point that it is this simple:

we are to do what was done in the garden of Eden...

including their desire to do as He did and rest the seventh day as He did after six days of work...

a 10 for 10 of a keeping of the Law...

add to that they ate NO unclean meat...lol

the lifestyle PRIOR the fall is the lifestyle we should live NOW...AND the one we will be restored too...RE-MADE INTO HIS IMAGE...on earth as it is in heaven...Finally and forever

see? simple...

as you also pointed out...

There is no indication all those laws were written at the time. Now if you have some bugus claim to make, then just say it, but putting words in my moth only confuses the issue.

 

[clefty]

There is no indication all those laws were written at the time. Now if you have some bugus claim to make, then just say it, but putting words in my moth only confuses the issue.

Even gravity worked before written down...

Factory Installed Manufacturer’s Default Settings don’t need Owner’s Manual if run right...

IF...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Even gravity worked before written down...

Factory Installed Manufacturer’s Default Settings don’t need Owner’s Manual if run right...

IF...

That really does nothing for your argument. We are not talking about gravity...that simple.

 

[clefty]

That really does nothing for your argument. We are not talking about gravity...that simple.

I am...

I am talking about the Laws in the garden...Digestion breathing and walking...which well were also NOT listed...

nor were grammar laws and yet their sentence structure seems solid...

and “Factory Installed Manufacturer’s Default Settings don’t need Owner’s Manual if run right...”...applies to more than natural laws...but also HOW we live made in His image...what we DO...WHEN we do it