It's really this simple...

[BobRyan]

There is no indication all those laws were written at the time..

Even gravity worked before written down...
Factory Installed Manufacturer’s Default Settings don’t need Owner’s Manual if run right...
IF...

Amen!

The idea that God's Laws of nature or of morality "can not work before someone writes it down" is not a proven fact of nature or of scripture.

That really does nothing for your argument. .

how so?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Amen!

The idea that God's Laws of nature or of morality "can not work before someone writes it down" is not a proven fact of nature or of scripture.


how so?

How so, does it do anything for your argument?

Can you show me where the laws of God were put on the table during the eden era?

 

[BobRyan]

How so, does it do anything for your argument?

Can you show me where the laws of God were put on the table during the eden era?

The question was... can you show that if a law is not written on paper that it does not exist. Is speaking it "not enough"??

For example in Gen 4 God tells Cain "sin is crouching at your door but you must master it" -- yet no "written law" about "do no murder" and no "written law about do not be angry with your brother"..

Obviously the "has to be written or it does not exist rule" was not working.

So also in Gen 6 and 7 - the clean and unclean animals go into the ark - the unclean by pairs of two's and the clean by pairs of 7's... yet where was it 'written' what the distinction is between clean and unclean?

Moses' readers read it in Genesis and then find the definition for the terms in Lev 11. However Noah did not have Lev 11.

The entire ad hoc argument that God speaking the Law would not be sufficient until someone wrote it and created copies to be preserved -- never worked at all in Genesis.

And this is not an argument only known to those who keep the Bible Sabbath - it is also known to a great many other denominations as well.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" -- and valid since Genesis 1-2.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[Kenny'sID]

The question was... can you show that if a law is not written on paper that it does not exist. Is speaking it "not enough"??

No more than you can show it does exist.

You do realize all I'm after here is proof the law existed during the days of eden, and if no one has that, fine. But why, as you have here, moved on to another time with evidence of a law, as in the days of noah? Why am I gettin all these irrelevant answers?

Either you have proof or you do not, no big deal either way.

 

[BobRyan]

No more than you can show it does exist.

I just gave you two examples..

The question was... can you show that if a law is not written on paper that it does not exist. Is speaking it "not enough"??

For example in Gen 4 God tells Cain "sin is crouching at your door but you must master it" -- yet no "written law" about "do no murder" and no "written law about do not be angry with your brother"..

Obviously the "has to be written or it does not exist rule" was not working.

So also in Gen 6 and 7 - the clean and unclean animals go into the ark - the unclean by pairs of two's and the clean by pairs of 7's... yet where was it 'written' what the distinction is between clean and unclean?

Moses' readers read it in Genesis and then find the definition for the terms in Lev 11. However Noah did not have Lev 11.

The entire ad hoc argument that God speaking the Law would not be sufficient until someone wrote it and created copies to be preserved -- never worked at all in Genesis.

And this is not an argument only known to those who keep the Bible Sabbath - it is also known to a great many other denominations as well.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" -- and valid since Genesis 1-2.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Third example is God himself pointing back to this fact in Ex 20:11 regarding the 4th commandment in Gen 2:1-3

Again an obvious Bible fact that almost all denominations admit.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" -- and valid since Genesis 1-2.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[BobRyan]

No more than you can show it does exist.

You do realize all I'm after here is proof the law existed during the days of eden, and if no one has that, fine. But why, as you have here, moved on to another time with evidence of a law, as in the days of noah? Why am I gettin all these irrelevant answers?

Either you have proof or you do not, no big deal either way.

I gave you a number of examples of "no written law" and yet "law exists", now you move the goal posts to suggest that while this works fine in Genesis 3-7 but "changed" in Gen 2??

Ad hoc rules much?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I just gave you two examples..



Third example is God himself pointing back to this fact in Ex 20:11 regarding the 4th commandment in Gen 2:1-3

Again an obvious Bible fact that almost all denominations admit.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" -- and valid since Genesis 1-2.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Please post your scripture and note the facts you speak of exactly. Those scriptures arent even links, and even if i did look them up, i might not know what fact you are refering to.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I gave you a number of examples of "no written law" and yet "law exists", now you move the goal posts to suggest that while this works fine in Genesis 3-7 but "changed" in Gen 2??

Ad hoc rules much?

What two examples, the one from noahs time? If you are caling that an example, you are not listening to the question.

Are you?

Moving the goal posts? No idea what you mean.

 

[Kenny'sID]

And the rules dont have to be written, i just need to know, as i mentioned, if they were on the table, or in existance for adam and eve.

 

[BobRyan]

What two examples, the one from noahs time? If you are caling that an example, you are not listening to the question.

The question is about laws that are in force even though they are not written down at the time of Genesis.

Questions like "would it have been a sin to take God's name in vain in Eden before the fall of man"?
Questions like "Is God serious in Ex 20:11 when He says the Sabbath started in Eden"?
Questions like "did things change from Gen 2 to Genesis 4 so that laws can exist without being written in Gen 4 but not in Gen 2?

And the rules dont have to be written, i just need to know, as i mentioned, if they were on the table, or in existance for adam and eve.

It appears they were in full force as Christian scholars in almost every major denomination affirm.

 

[BobRyan]

And the rules dont have to be written, i just need to know, as i mentioned, if they were on the table, or in existance for adam and eve.

Table as in tables of stone? I don't think they had them on tables of stone before Exodus.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Table as in tables of stone? I don't think they had them on tables of stone before Exodus.

Google Put it on the table.

 

[BobRyan]

What two examples, the one from noahs time? .

The one from Genesis 4 and the one from Genesis 7... to go along with the one from Genesis 2 also found in Ex 20:11

 

[Kenny'sID]

The one from Genesis 4 and the one from Genesis 7... to go along with the one from Genesis 2 also found in Ex 20:11

A very short description of what I'm looking for would help tremendously, Bob.

And we already discussed the Sabbath.

 

[clefty]

A very short description of what I'm looking for would help tremendously, Bob.

And we already discussed the Sabbath.

Which of the 10 was NOT included in “Let us make man in Our image?”

Was man to look like Him or do as He did?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Which of the 10 was NOT included in “Let us make man in Our image?”

Was man to look like Him or do as He did?

Entirely to much of a stretch to find something that works for you.
Let me know when you can do a little better than that.

 

[BobRyan]

Which of the 10 was NOT included in “Let us make man in Our image?”

Was man to look like Him or do as He did?

Bingo!

 

[clefty]

Entirely to much of a stretch to find something that works for you.

just cuz it ain’t for you don’t mean it don’t work...

Let me know when you can do a little better than that.

...in addition to the 10 they kept...others like not eating unclean meats...and not touching diseases...or corpses...

 

[clefty]

Bingo!

His will be re-stored to that lifestyle with Him...

“next year in the NEW Jerusalem”...

halleluYah

 

[Kenny'sID]

just cuz it ain’t for you don’t mean it don’t work...

...in addition to the 10 they kept...others like not eating unclean meats...and not touching diseases...or corpses...

No idea what either of those mean, can you please rephrase, or add enouh more to them to where they malke sense? Thanks