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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
It's really this simple...
- Thread starter clefty
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Amen to that!
Discussing this with Christians I constantly hear WWJD? and a DEEP DESIRE from them to be more LIKE HIM...to follow HIM...live AS HE LIVED...love as He loved...
And we all agree on:
there is no other god
no making images to worship
don't take His name for naught
honor parents
don't kill
don't commit adultery
don't steal
don't lie
don't covet
but as soon as I bring up "remember the seventh day Sabbath to keep it Holy" all the wheels come off...suddenly it is ALL these arguments, rejections and denial "OT abolished...NOT for me...you're legalist and Judaizing...fallen from grace..."
learning some new rejections here though...
I was merely hoping to simplify things and clarify how "lest ye become like children" and just trust and obey...Him His way...as it was when we did live as MADE IN HIS IMAGE...prior the fall...and His will be re-stored to that lifestyle...
but we know what they ultimately did with Paul when he brought them the news "copy me as I copy Christ"
some overcame...still fight the good fight...persevere to Love AS HE LOVED US
halleluYah...
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Amen --
There is an interesting story/illustration that Christ gives when dealing with the religious leaders of His day in Mark 7.
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
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yes good good...
I enjoy this:
Matt 15:1Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash their hands before they eat. 3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
Would tease my mom that washing hands before I eat was for Pharisees...she made me do it anyway...lol
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Is MAN better at government than Yah?
Even in secular Law made by man the rule is:
Ignorantia juris non excusat[1] or ignorantia legis neminem excusat[2] (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not"[1] and "ignorance of law excuses no one"[2] respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware of its content.
Ignorantia juris non excusat - Wikipedia
NOT KNOWING DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST...just like NOT breaking the Law does NOT mean it does NOT exist...
If we believe His Kingdom is LawFULL then we must accept that it is at least as good as what fallen man expects of his government:
The doctrine assumes that the law in question has been properly promulgated—published and distributed, for example, by being printed in a government gazette, made available over the internet, or printed in volumes available for sale to the public at affordable prices. In the ancient phrase of Gratian, Leges instituuntur cum promulgantur ("Laws are instituted when they are promulgated").[3] In order that a law obtain the binding force which is proper to a law, it must be applied to the men who have to be ruled by it. Such application is made by their being given notice by promulgation. A law can bind only when it is reasonably possible for those to whom it applies to acquire knowledge of it in order to observe it, even if actual knowledge of the law is absent for a particular individual. A secret law is no law at all. IBID.
So were Adam and Eve ignorant of the Law as it was NOT promulgated yet? Or even conceived?
Was it NOT displayed? told to them? And NOT recorded...or was it in their Hearts and Minds ALREADY?
Sabbath certainly WAS demonstrated and confirmed by the Lord of the Sabbath as made for man...when? At Sinai for His people? Or when man was made...WHOSOEVER believes?
This is why Paul maintains we are to ESTABLISH the Law NOT made void by our faith...to PROMULGATE HIS WAYS to the fallen world...NOW saved WHOSOEVER believes...
Interesting too that Wiki includes:
The doctrine, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse," first shows up in the Bible in Leviticus 5:17: "If a person sins and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands, even though he does not know it, he is guilty and will be held responsible." IBID.
Hence the SIN OFFERINGS which were for sins UNINTENTIONAL...
At the cross was NOT a sin offering as Passover is a thank offering...
And sins we know are to be corrected or no sacrifice for them...
”go and sin no more” was NOT a prediction...or judgement of being sinless...but a command to REPENT and change to match His Ways having been saved by Him...
Anyways...
To assume His Law is NOT Eternal...or was NOT known in the garden as NOT recorded assumes the government of man>the government of Yah...
Something I can NOT accept...
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Law = Yah = Love = Immortal
from eternity past to present to eternity future
now you know...His Law has been around as long as He has...
what is left is acceptance and application
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Some interesting issues man in his increase of knowledge will run into:
This is why, ethical hierarchical devolution starting with THE LAW, that must be updated for both the TECH WORLD AND FOR HUMAN BIOLOGICAL IMMORTALITY FIRST, is what ie needed - it is HOW everything will evolve correctly, when we will become ready for IMMORTALITY, by getting the law ready FIRST and FOREMOST.......both for immortality and to cover tech developments, which we have not yet done......
For this, an AI company needs to data-mine the constitution, all existent laws - state and federal, and be able to able to come up with laws on the fly (really quickly) that will serve lawmakers' goals for desired citizen outcomes, without being subverted by technology or by human biological immortality...
The Immortal World and the Law: Priya V Balakrishnan, MD: Regenerative Medicine Specialist
Even man now knocking on immortality in this modern age is discovering that Law does come first...
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