It's really this simple...

[clefty]

It's really this simple.

Think about what lifestyle we would be living had Adam and Eve NOT sinned and been kicked out.

That lifestyle is what we would STILL be living...

worshipping no other
making no images not worshiping any
not blaspheming His name
honoring our parents
not killing
not committing adultery
not stealing
not lying
not coveting

oh and yes AS HE DID resting every seventh day...

after every six days of work...as He worked...so also as He rested...

the One by Whom all things were made...

He worked six days and then He sanctified that seventh day and made it HOLY...rested and was refreshed.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,"

And then He rested the next day after making us in His Image...

in His IMAGE not just to LOOK LIKE Him but to LIVE AS HE DID...creating caring tending a garden establishing dominion and loving each other as He loved us

then resting AS HE DID and to be refreshed AS HE WAS...

Had we NOT sinned this is the way we would be living...our Factory Default Setting...

oh and now include what we would eat...NO MEAT...

so well...certainly NO UNCLEAN meat...

and this is the lifestyle His will be returned to...

“Here are they that KEEP the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...”

BECAUSE "where I am there ye may be also"...

living in His IMAGE...as He did here when He was with us here...the SAME as we will when RESTORED to Him and His Way again...

HalleluYah

 

[Kenny'sID]

I could be wrong, but wasnt there only one rule in eden...don't eat of the tree of good and evil?

That's not to say they did or did not obey the commandments you mention, but only that they didn't come till later.

 

[eleos1954]

I could be wrong, but wasnt there only one rule in eden...don't eat of the tree of good and evil?

That's not to say they did or did not obey the commandments you mention, but only that they didn't come till later.

The law was not codified (written) until later, we read about the people's actions and them sinning or not sinning ... what is sin? Transgression of the Law .... they knew ... else they would not have known what sin is. The law was handed down orally until they were writtien.

 

[clefty]

I could be wrong, but wasnt there only one rule in eden...don't eat of the tree of good and evil?

That's not to say they did or did not obey the commandments you mention, but only that they didn't come till later.

When the Word became Flesh He revealed what had truly transpired there in the garden...the INVERSION of ALL

And in His teaching the first shall be last and the last shall be first we learn that Eve in one act:

10. Coveted-by seeing the forbidden fruit and curious wanted more

9. Lied-ADDING “we are not to touch” she deceived herself

8. Stole-took what was NOT hers

7. Committed adultery-mixed what was to be separate

6. Killed-the innocence...the Spirit... “became naked”

5. Dishonored parent- her Heavenly Father

4. Disrupted His way...His cadence...His rest forever...

3. Misrepresented His name/authority

2. Made an image in her mind and followed it...NOT Him

1. Became her own god made one beside Him

Adam too...went through them all and broke each...

Choosing her...and NOT Him...His ways...

Please understand what Yahushua meant by what happens outwardly begins inwardly...”NOT my will but Thine be done”

 

[clefty]

The law was not codified (written) until later, we read about the people's actions and them sinning or not sinning ... what is sin? Transgression of the Law .... they knew ... else they would not have known what sin is. The law was handed down orally until they were writtien.

Yes...our Factory Default Settings...lol

Paul affirms Gentiles who do not have the law by NATURE do the things contained in the law...show the work of law written in their hearts... their conscience ALSO bearing witness Roman 2:14-15

And as demonstrated historically Laws 5-10 are readily accepted by all cultures for the most part...and 1-4 have been adapted with variations...

“I will write My Law” then is in a sense redundant...

or specific...especially 1-4 as most civilized cultures already understood 5-10

Joseph already knew it was a sin against his God to mess with his master’s wife. Gen 39:9

Cain was instructed to do well...sin waits at the door “but you should rule over it” Gen 4:7 and what is sin?

At the time of Noah what was the standard for evil after all? What wickedness did they do?

How was Noah just? According to what standard?

His Law is merely descriptive of WHO He is...His Character...and what life is like where I AM...

and Whose IMAGE we are made in...so of course it describes those that ACCEPT Him His Ways...and what we will be restored into...living AS the I AM...

But yes some still in this world do good and live kind charitable lives without KNOWING Him Who made us...

Is why we are to go into ALL the world...teaching them to observe ALL He commanded us to do and not just some...

His will do so...

 

[Kenny'sID]

When the Word became Flesh He revealed what had truly transpired there in the garden...the INVERSION of ALL

And in His teaching the first shall be last and the last shall be first we learn that Eve in one act:

10. Coveted-by seeing the forbidden fruit and curious wanted more

9. Lied-ADDING “we are not to touch” she deceived herself

8. Stole-took what was NOT hers

7. Committed adultery-mixed what was to be separate

6. Killed-the innocence...the Spirit... “became naked”

5. Dishonored parent- her Heavenly Father

4. Disrupted His way...His cadence...His rest forever...

3. Misrepresented His name/authority

2. Made an image in her mind and followed it...NOT Him

1. Became her own god made one beside Him

Adam too...went through them all and broke each...

Choosing her...and NOT Him...His ways...

Please understand what Yahushua meant by what happens outwardly begins inwardly...”NOT my will but Thine be done”

I think you misunderstood my point, it was not to argue if the commandments were disobeyed, but if they were even in affect until the law was given to Moses

 

[clefty]

I think you misunderstood my point, it was not to argue if the commandments were disobeyed, but if they were even in affect until the law was given to Moses

Yah told Cain if you do well you will be accepted...but if not sin lies at the door...But you should rule over it...Gen 5:7

Which sin? what is sin?

What was evil about Noah’s generation why was Noah found just?

What was happening at the Tower of Babel but a name for themselves they were making thus carrying His in vain...

Which Commandments judgements statutes and laws did Abraham keep?...ones contrary to latter ones?

Is He an author of confusion? Was Melchizedek a priest of a different Most High with a different Law?

coveting and stealing were not ok...ask Lot...lol

Which sin was so grievious that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed? Gen 18:20

Rachel sat on Idols for a reason...Gen 31:34

Joseph knew it was a sin against Yah Gen 39:9 but I imagine Egyptian law would not be too impressed either...

All this tortured reasoning to rid yourself of a gift He said was to Man...and not just Jews

ummm there were men prior Sinai yes?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Which sin? what is sin?

Exactly my point.

And remember, the subject was the garden, not thereafter.

 

[clefty]

Exactly my point.

And remember, the subject was the garden, not thereafter.

your claim is that these 10 were not until revealed at Sinai...yet sin remains defined as transgression to a law...even before Sinai

ironic Sabbath specifically was kept with manna even PRIOR the Law giving at Sinai...

and to remind these people (some now NOT OF JACOB) what His people did...having been saved claiming Abraham as their father...who was not a Jew

but you seem insistent...

so which of the 10 Commandments was NOT necessary in the garden?

and which of the 10 actually was LISTED as kept...the irony...

while you’re at it please include which of the 10 Laws we will NOT be keeping when restored to how we were to live prior this detour of sin...Isaiah 66:22-23 might help

 

[Kenny'sID]

your claim is that these 10 were not until revealed at Sinai...yet sin remains defined as transgression to a law...even before Sinai

ironic Sabbath specifically was kept with manna even PRIOR the Law giving at Sinai...

and to remind these people (some now NOT OF JACOB) what His people did...having been saved claiming Abraham as their father...who was not a Jew

but you seem insistent...

so which of the 10 Commandments was NOT necessary in the garden?

and which of the 10 actually was LISTED as kept...the irony...

while you’re at it please include which of the 10 Laws we will NOT be keeping when restored to how we were to live prior this detour of sin...Isaiah 66:22-23 might help

Again, the subject is the time of the garden, and my claim started off with I could be wrong.

So let's get back to the garden, and show me what the rules were at that time?

On whether or not the laws were given after the garden or before moses is not my concern either, just the garden.

 

[clefty]

Again, the subject is the time of the garden, and my claim started off with I could be wrong.

and yet...

So let's get back to the garden, and show me what the rules were at that time?

...ignoring all biological physical and other physical rules...right? lol

So I already did.

Not only did I list them rules but demonstrated how they were broken...

But yes perhaps you missed this too...

"And in His teaching the first shall be last and the last shall be first we learn that Eve in ONE act:

10. Coveted-by seeing the forbidden fruit and curious wanted more

9. Lied-ADDING “we are not to touch” she deceived herself

8. Stole-took what was NOT hers

7. Committed adultery-mixed what was to be separate

6. Killed-the innocence...the Spirit... “became naked”

5. Dishonored parent- her Heavenly Father

4. Disrupted His way...His cadence...His rest forever...

3. Misrepresented His name/authority

2. Made an image in her mind and followed it...NOT Him

1. Became her own god made one beside Him

Adam too...went through them all and broke each...

Choosing her...and NOT Him...His ways...

Please understand what Yahushua meant by what happens outwardly begins inwardly...'NOT my will but Thine be done'"

oh and I dare say we will also NOT be eating meat...and thus the Levitical Laws keeping clean meat clean will also be kept...lol

On whether or not the laws were given after the garden or before moses is not my concern either, just the garden.

so there ya go...

the FACTORY DEFAULT SETTINGS of the Manufacturer...Who created us IN HIS IMAGE to not just look like Him but to LIVE AS He does...Holy pure clean healthy lives...

ONLY HE is IMMORTAL and the Law is His CHARACTER and MIND...HIS LOVE...IMMORTAL AND UNCHANGING...AS HE IS...

Had Adam and Eve ONLY understood to "Love as HE LOVES" and you will indeed fulfill His Law...

and then AFTER this detour of sin we will be regenerated and finally restored to as we were to live BEFORE...

So Remember the seventh day Sabbath to Keep it holy as it was MADE HOLY BY Him by which ALL things were made...as Adam and Eve's first full day in the Adamic covenant age was a Holy day of rest...unearned...such GRACE...having been created in His Image on the sixth day...

Again Isaiah 66:22-23 confirms that to that way of life with its days of rest we will be restored...

 

[Kenny'sID]

and yet...

...ignoring all biological physical and other physical rules...right? lol

So I already did.

Not only did I list them rules but demonstrated how they were broken...

But yes perhaps you missed this too...

"And in His teaching the first shall be last and the last shall be first we learn that Eve in ONE act:

10. Coveted-by seeing the forbidden fruit and curious wanted more

9. Lied-ADDING “we are not to touch” she deceived herself

8. Stole-took what was NOT hers

7. Committed adultery-mixed what was to be separate

6. Killed-the innocence...the Spirit... “became naked”

5. Dishonored parent- her Heavenly Father

4. Disrupted His way...His cadence...His rest forever...

3. Misrepresented His name/authority

2. Made an image in her mind and followed it...NOT Him

1. Became her own god made one beside Him

Adam too...went through them all and broke each...

Choosing her...and NOT Him...His ways...

Please understand what Yahushua meant by what happens outwardly begins inwardly...'NOT my will but Thine be done'"

oh and I dare say we will also NOT be eating meat...and thus the Levitical Laws keeping clean meat clean will also be kept...lol

so there ya go...

the FACTORY DEFAULT SETTINGS of the Manufacturer...Who created us IN HIS IMAGE to not just look like Him but to LIVE AS He does...Holy pure clean healthy lives...

ONLY HE is IMMORTAL and the Law is His CHARACTER and MIND...HIS LOVE...IMMORTAL AND UNCHANGING...AS HE IS...

Had Adam and Eve ONLY understood to "Love as HE LOVES" and you will indeed fulfill His Law...

and then AFTER this detour of sin we will be regenerated and finally restored to as we were to live BEFORE...

So Remember the seventh day Sabbath to Keep it holy as it was MADE HOLY BY Him by which ALL things were made...as Adam and Eve's first full day in the Adamic covenant age was a Holy day of rest...unearned...such GRACE...having been created in His Image on the sixth day...

Again Isaiah 66:22-23 confirms that to that way of life with its days of rest we will be restored...

Showing me their sin does not answer the question, it has nothing to do with the question. You are all over the place with quotes that have nothing to do with the rules I asked for.

I asked you to show me what the rules were at that time, meaning in the garden, yet you have not quoted a thing from then or anything that refers to then.

If you dont know, no big deal, but all that time spent hopping around giving no answer to the question is just a waste.

Can you or can you not site the written rules for Adam and Eve, as they were in the garden? If not, just say so, no one knows everything, and there my be no answer at all in the bible for the particular question.

 

[BobRyan]

I could be wrong, but wasnt there only one rule in eden...don't eat of the tree of good and evil?

That's not to say they did or did not obey the commandments you mention, but only that they didn't come till later.

So then if they were to take God's name in vain in Eden before eating the apple - you agree that would have been sin right?

Rom 4:15 where there is no law, there also is no violation.
1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the law".

the moral law of God is eternal. There was never a time when it was right for Angels or humans to "take God's name in vain". It would always have been a sin.

Gal 3:8 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

But where exactly is the text that details how Abraham "saw Christ's day and was glad" in the book of Genesis?

The book of Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for the first 1600 years of Earth's history.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Rom 4:15 where there is no law, there also is no violation.
1 John 3:4 "sin is transgrbuession of the law".

Bingo

But where exactly is the text that details how Abraham "saw Christ's day and was glad" in the on?

Why ask me? Not sure you understood the intention of my post.

 

[BobRyan]

Bingo
Why ask me? Not sure you understood the intention of my post.

My point was that not every word spoken for the first 1600 years of history - can be found in the Bible. -- the details are not given in Genesis - so even though in John 8 and in 1 Peter 1 we are told details about the past - it does not mean that those facts did not exist in Genesis - just that we were not told about it in those earlier texts.

In Genesis 4 God tells Cain "sin is crouching at your door" when Cain was angry with his brother -- but there is no "do not be angry with your brother" or even "do not murder" text in Genesis 2 or 3.

It was already a sin even without Moses telling us in an earlier chapter.

Just as is the case with clean and unclean animals in Genesis 6 and 7. There is nothing in Genesis 1-5 telling you what an unclean animal is. You don't find that out until Lev 11.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My point was that not every word spoken for the first 1600 years of history - can be found in the Bible. -- the details are not given in Genesis - so even though in John 8 and in 1 Peter 1 we are told details about the past - it does not mean that those facts did not exist in Genesis - just that we were not told about it in those earlier texts.

In Genesis 4 God tells Cain "sin is crouching at your door" when Cain was angry with his brother -- but there is no "do not be angry with your brother" or even "do not murder" text in Genesis 2 or 3.

It was already a sin even without Moses telling us in an earlier chapter.

Just as is the case with clean and unclean animals in Genesis 6 and 7. There is nothing in Genesis 1-5 telling you what an unclean animal is. You don't find that out until Lev 11.

I think what I replied "bingo" to, made my point.

 

[clefty]

Showing me their sin

it is settled then...you were shown...

does not answer the question,

evidence of an answer not being accepted is still evidence...you being shown a matter but rejecting it is still being shown...one who wills not to see can not be shown

I think we should stick to your most initial response

“I could be wrong”...

Starting to doubt you meant that...ever

it has nothing to do with the question.

sure it does...if I show you their sin it answers that a law was there and then broken...just as readily as a toddler falling before understanding gravity...

Arguing with the traffic cop “But I didn’t know” does NOT help...

Your claim that there was only ONE law “do not eat” attempts to cast the same spirit of doubt he did questioning “Has Yah indeed said thou shalt not...?”

Guess we know whose side you stand on...

Adam and Eve KNEW they did wrong...were exposed...naked or else they would NOT have made for themselves a fig leaf covering...rather than admit and ask forgiveness...

Is why in breaking one they broke all others...is why most reject Him as tyrant and His Ways as tyrannical though they could be wrong...

You are all over the place with quotes that have nothing to do with the rules I asked for.

not only did I answer affirmative that there was further Law in heaven but showed evidence to its being broken...

Prolly why you began with “I could be wrong”...and then “That’s not to say they did or did not obey the commandments” which has been answered...they did not...

I asked you to show me what the rules were at that time,

which I did AND provided evidence to their being broken

meaning in the garden, yet you have not quoted a thing from then or anything that refers to then.

you need even more?

“I have given you every herb that yields seed...every tree whose fruit yields seed...shall be food” that is in the positive which keeps pure and clean...and ALREADY in keeping with Levitical dietary Law.

So He gave them direct Law to eat...but none was given to breathe...perhaps they were not meant to do so?...I mean I could be wrong...

Those who keep Torah and find it a delight and not burdensome understand that THIS IS HOW to be “fruitful and multiply and have dominion over every living thing that moves on the earth” Eve did NOT DOMINATE the serpent...should have kept His Word...

“Do this and live”...they did not...but even ADDED to it...

If you dont know, no big deal, but all that time spent hopping around giving no answer to the question is just a waste.

You probably think “Love one another” is enough...the ONLY Law...and makes void the rest of the Law too...thereby making the OT a waste and what was done at the cross...

Can you or can you not site the written rules for Adam and Eve, as they were in the garden?

I did...and anyone who understands and believes “I change NOT”...can read them there in the garden already in their circumcised hearts and Christlike “inner jew” minds...

If not, just say so, no one knows everything, and there my be no answer at all in the bible for the particular question.

no answer you accept perhaps...but I did say so as did He...

Might I remind you that sin offerings were for sins one did NOT KNOW they committed...

And if you think they were thrown out to die because of fruit...you really miss MOST of it...and your rebellion understandable...though you could be wrong...

I mean could you be?

 

[clefty]

I think what I replied "bingo" to, made my point.

what you “bingoed“ is thinking Paul said there was no Law in heaven...

because you think there was but one...”of this do not eat”

and that Adam and Eve COULD have worshipped another god because THAT Law was only revealed at Sinai...

ironically that is EXACTLY what they did PRIOR the eating of the fruit...which is WHY they took and ate...and were thrown out...to die...

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think we should stick to your most initial respon

“I could be wrong”...

Na, think we need to stick with, it appears you are doing the same thing, a lot of write, but no answer to a very simple question, and it's time for me to give up on you, and move on.

 

[clefty]

Na, think we need to stick with, it appears you are doing the same thing, a lot of write, but no answer to a very simple question, and it's time for me to give up on you, and move on.

Not accepting an answer does not mean unanswered...

I answered “Eve in one act” broke them all...

rejecting that you asked if the Law was at all until given to Moses...

you miss entirely that in my OP I was not addressing what they knew then...but as it was then in the garden will be again...and even better as we will not be tested by a forbidden fruit...

and that what we know now about His Law will be again as it was then...when we are remade into His image again having put on His immortality...which is forever the perfect standard...which you could be wrong about...

but sure move on...not everyone accepts Him His ways...or His Sabbath which was received in the garden knowing nothing about Moses or Sinai...