It's Not Too Soon to Debate Gun Control

[Almost there]

This is a little old, but still offers perspective:

Most Common Causes of Death Due to Injury in the US

One row from the chart:
Drowning and submersion while in or falling into bath-tub -- 341

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Most registered gun owners aren't the ones going out, and doing these crazy things.

Neither are most unregistered gun owners.

Not to defend criminals but when was the last time you heard of a gang member pointlessly shooting up a church, or school, or concert, or mall, or a movie theater?

It doesn't happen. Gang members mostly kill each other because that's just what their business entails. We need to try to stop these random massacres that seem to happen in our country alarmingly more frequently than in any other civilized nation. Bringing up the average gangster or street thug is ignoring the issue.

 

[LostMarbels]

Unfortunately, we have gangs especially in certain cities that run wild. They have illegal guns, and they don't care if they kill people outside their circle of bad guys. A city near me has very restrictive gun laws, and yet it has no effect on the gangs at all. More people were killed there than in Afghanistan. People need to stop and let that soak in for a minute.

I think its cruel that the government allows these gangs to run these neighborhoods, and yet they have allowed it for as long as I can remember. Other cities do much better on that front, but the government there is so arrogant they won't allow enough changes to happen to save their own people. Of course they are the poor, and many are minorities - which if anyone wants to scream 'racism'? I wouldn't have an issue with it there. Why? It wouldn't happen in the RICH parts of the city. It's hypocritical with all their chanting of inclusiveness, diversity, etc. They are all mouth and no action. They love to chant their "Sanctuary' status, but do they market to those people their chances of getting killed there are high? Nope.

The mayor loves to tell people its guns from surrounding states, but if you read enough news stories? It's a convenient tale that is politically satisfying to him, and not reality. Yet, they leave him alone...because he does all the 'right' things overall - and well connected. If he loses in the next election? Someone with his same 'groupthink' will take over, and nothing will change. It makes me cynical, because you see all these innocents die...and they do nothing.

Their gun laws aren't saving them, because their government ignores problems they decide NOT to deal with. It's heartbreaking, and cruel. It really is.

Just to put mit out there:

Trump: "inner cities run by Democrats are more dangerous than war zones"

The media's response? Well, Trump is racist.

This comment right here:

“Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no education. They have no jobs. I will do more for African-Americans and Latinos than she (Hillary) can ever do in 10 lifetimes.... we need to get the drugs out. We need to get the crime and the gangs out.”

Was seen as a majorly racist comment. It was spun into that all Trump saw were blacks and Latinos in inner cities, and that those races are why Trump thought they needed to be cleaned out.

 

[majj27]

Private group or NGO. The issue with the government being in charge is one of our government having no checks and balances. That is a very dangerous road to go down.

I'm not certain I agree, simply because the regulations would need at least some level of enforcement that I think would need to be governmental. I suppose a single nationwide NGO might do the trick, so long as they were required to report violations and law enforcement was required to act upon violations. But I'd worry if you have 30-40 state-level private groups doing it you'd wind up with a situation no better than the patchwork of ineffective regulation we have right now.

 

[SummerMadness]

Just to put mit out there:

Trump: "inner cities run by Democrats are more dangerous than war zones"

The media's response? Well, Trump is racist.

This comment right here:

“Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no education. They have no jobs. I will do more for African-Americans and Latinos than she (Hillary) can ever do in 10 lifetimes.... we need to get the drugs out. We need to get the crime and the gangs out.”

Was seen as a majorly racist comment. It was spun into that all Trump saw were blacks and Latinos in inner cities, and that those races are why Trump thought they needed to be cleaned out.

Because when talking about African Americans, he refers to the inner cities, he does that all the time. Most African Americans do not live in the inner city, yet this does not stop Trump from conflating the two. That is racist.

 

[LostMarbels]

Because when talking about African Americans, he refers to the inner cities, he does that all the time. Most African Americans do not live in the inner city, yet this does not stop Trump from conflating the two. That is racist.

Granted, ignorance or even an ignorant comment can be viewed racist. I thought it was a stupid way of stating it. His intentions, however, are to help people in low-income areas, inner cities, and gang overrun neighborhoods. He put it wrong.

Honestly, there are so many levels of stupid in his comment.

 

[Albion]

Millitant white atheist... Keep in mind it was a white guy.

*staff edit*

The correct term there is diversion, not blame game.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Granted, ignorance or even an ignorant comment can be viewed racist. I thought it was a stupid way of stating it.

A stupid way he persists in stating it. Remember, Donald doesn't suffer correction well -- or at all, for that matter.

His intentions, however, are to help people in low-income areas, inner cities, and gang overrun neighborhoods. He put it wrong.

As he often does -- Chronic foot-in-mouth syndrome.

Honestly, there are so many levels of stupid in that comment.

If you're referring to Donald's comment, we'd need a DSRV to plumb the depths of some of his more asinine comments if you're looking to avoid the appearance of racism...

The problem, as I've said before, is threefold:

1: A public figure can't afford too many unfortunate gaffes before earning (deserved or not) a reputation.
2: For a president, anything more than one is too many.
3: Donald has had far more than one.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

So- how do we keep guns out of the hands of those that aren't legally allowed to have them anyway?

They should be charged for the murders. If the guns were stolen maybe we should get of all guns.

 

[Almost there]

Neither are most unregistered gun owners.

Not to defend criminals but when was the last time you heard of a gang member pointlessly shooting up a church, or school, or concert, or mall, or a movie theater?

It doesn't happen. Gang members mostly kill each other because that's just what their business entails. We need to try to stop these random massacres that seem to happen in our country alarmingly more frequently than in any other civilized nation. Bringing up the average gangster or street thug is ignoring the issue.

It's actually so rare for someone to do what this guy did as to be one of the last things we should be worried about. What it is is a rare thing that percolates to the surface of a "news junkie" culture, which we have become.

And focusing on stuff like this while ignoring the real problems can get us into trouble. Case in point, we have an active and dangerous "Black Lives Matter" movement happening in our country (well, getting rid of Obama gave it a strong shot of cold water, but still...) because of the epidemic of "innocent and unarmed" black man being shot and killed by white cops. Except that is not what is happening.

Look at these numbers. Yes, that is ten. TEN. Total.

POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Data for 2015, 2016, 2017 - Sociology Toolbox

 

[Almost there]

Just to put mit out there:

Trump: "inner cities run by Democrats are more dangerous than war zones"

The media's response? Well, Trump is racist.

View attachment 211946

View attachment 211948

This comment right here:

“Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no education. They have no jobs. I will do more for African-Americans and Latinos than she (Hillary) can ever do in 10 lifetimes.... we need to get the drugs out. We need to get the crime and the gangs out.”

Was seen as a majorly racist comment. It was spun into that all Trump saw were blacks and Latinos in inner cities, and that those races are why Trump thought they needed to be cleaned out.

Inner cores have definitely been gentrified. I remember working in downtown Seattle about ten years ago. It was a nice and safe place, until it got dark. I remember, especially on third avenue, where all the poor blacks were waiting around bus stops, to be extra careful and aware if I found myself there after a later than normal work day. The busses becam their connectivity to the "inner city" from the CD (central district) when now has also been somewhat gentrified.

I don't know where "they" live any more. I'm in KY now. I certainly know where "they" live in Louisville, now. And yes, those are dangerous areas.

 

[bhsmte]

They should be charged for the murders. If the guns were stolen maybe we should get of all guns.

I would imagine, even in texas, this guy shouldnt have been able to walk in a gun store and purchase a gun, after spending a year in jail for a violent crime. Someone screwed up and they may be able to charge them with criminal neligence or at least, they could be prone to civil liability.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's actually so rare for someone to do what this guy did as to be one of the last things we should be worried about. What it is is a rare thing that percolates to the surface of a "news junkie" culture, which we have become.

And focusing on stuff like this while ignoring the real problems can get us into trouble. Case in point, we have an active and dangerous "Black Lives Matter" movement happening in our country (well, getting rid of Obama gave it a strong shot of cold water, but still...) because of the epidemic of "innocent and unarmed" black man being shot and killed by white cops. Except that is not what is happening.

Look at these numbers. Yes, that is ten. TEN. Total.

POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Data for 2015, 2016, 2017 - Sociology Toolbox

I don't worry much about being killed in a mass shooting but you can tell the families of the 26 people killed yesterday their real concern should be with the people out protesting police violence and not the person who just murdered their loved ones in their church yesterday.

What worries more than these actual shootings is our sheer inability to address this as a problem in our society. Instead we turn to infighting and blaming everyone we don't like. If we can't even recognize it as a problem, what hope do we have of ever fixing or even improving it?

 

[SummerMadness]

It's actually so rare for someone to do what this guy did as to be one of the last things we should be worried about. What it is is a rare thing that percolates to the surface of a "news junkie" culture, which we have become.

And focusing on stuff like this while ignoring the real problems can get us into trouble. Case in point, we have an active and dangerous "Black Lives Matter" movement happening in our country (well, getting rid of Obama gave it a strong shot of cold water, but still...) because of the epidemic of "innocent and unarmed" black man being shot and killed by white cops. Except that is not what is happening.

Look at these numbers. Yes, that is ten. TEN. Total.

POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Data for 2015, 2016, 2017 - Sociology Toolbox

I think it's interesting that you make a post about black people when the post you quoted was about gang members and thugs... it makes me think of the "What does a thug look like?" and the gymnastics people used to pretend that they don't mean black.

Gang members and thugs != black people

When you're talking about gangs, they entail more than Bloods or Crips. They also include Latin Kings, MS-13, the Mafia, Black Dragons, Flying Dragons, Bandidos, Cossacks, etc.

 

[Almost there]

I don't worry much about being killed in a mass shooting but you can tell the families of the 26 people killed yesterday their real concern should be with the people out protesting police violence and not the person who just murdered their loved ones in their church yesterday.

What worries more than these actual shootings is our sheer inability to address this as a problem in our society. Instead we turn to infighting and blaming everyone we don't like. If we can't even recognize it as a problem, what hope do we have of ever fixing or even improving it?

Yep. What makes this news is two things: It is rare and guns are controversial.

And, as always, the problem is not the tool used, but the person using the tool.

 

[Almost there]

I think it's interesting that you make a post about black people when the post you quoted was about gang members and thugs... it makes me think of the "What does a thug look like?" and the gymnastics people used to pretend that they don't mean black.

Gang members and thugs != black people

When you're talking about gangs, they entail more than Bloods or Crips. They also include Latin Kings, MS-13, the Mafia, Black Dragons, Flying Dragons, Bandidos, Cossacks, etc.

My point was that something that IS dangerous, BLM, is based on lousy information and a warped view of what is happening in the real world.

I never mentioned "thugs".

 

[SummerMadness]

My point was that something that IS dangerous, BLM, is based on lousy information and a warped view of what is happening in the real world.

I never mentioned "thugs".

But the quote you responded to was about gang members and thugs and you launched into a response about Black Lives Matter. And what's more puzzling is talking about unarmed people being killed by the police when the topic is gun violence.

 

[Almost there]

But the quote you responded to was about gang members and thugs and you launched into a response about Black Lives Matter. And what's more puzzling is talking about unarmed people being killed by the police when the topic is gun violence.

My mistake, then. My whole point about events like this is taht we are completely missing the point when we talk about false "causes" and ignore the real issue, and that sometimes that can cause even MORE harm. The BLM connection to less than one "unarmed black man" shooting per state (and even then ignores that some of them were not "innocent' nor helpless).

My point is that our news addiction actually can make "non-problems" into real problems, or ignore causes.

 

[Hank77]

If you had good systems you wouldnt have over 700 children under the age of ten killed each year by another toddler.

I don't know where you got that statistic from but it is not true. Here is a link to a site promoting gun control, so if anything they are biased against gun ownership.
Notice that there have been 313 accidental deaths of children 17 and under since 2015. That's will be 3 full yrs. in a couple of months. There is a regional map that shows where each death and injury happened over 3 yrs. and also by the year.
https://everytownresearch.org/notanaccident/3154/#1133

No child should die or be injured accidentally because they had access to a gun. It just shouldn't happen. But like other accidents that are caused by someone's negligence like defective driving, unattended in a swimming pool, not getting medical care when needed, access to prescription drugs, access to household cleansers, unsafe area in the home that are not fenced off, such as staircases, etc. they are going to happen.
Drowning is the leading cause of death and injuries in children ages 1-4. Water can be seen as a high threat to children as they can drown in as little as 2 inches of water. Little to no supervision is dangerous anytime young children are dealing with water in the home. And we hear sad stories all too often of a caretaker who neglects to monitor a child while they’re in the bath tub which results in a drowning accident.
Home Accident Statistics: Is Your Home as Safe as You Think?

However, we need to do the best we can to see that they don't.

The answer to gun safety is education both for gun owners, and all those living with guns.
At our school we used to have a gun safety class that every 5th grader took. They actually handled rifles and shot them at targets. They were made aware of the damage that is done when using a gun.

You can't get a hunting license without a hunter's safety card, proving that you have passed a safety coarse.

So maybe one answer would be that one cannot buy a gun until they have passed a safety coarse and are a licensed gun owner.

 

[LostMarbels]

A stupid way he persists in stating it. Remember, Donald doesn't suffer correction well -- or at all, for that matter.



As he often does -- Chronic foot-in-mouth syndrome.



If you're referring to Donald's comment, we'd need a DSRV to plumb the depths of some of his more asinine comments if you're looking to avoid the appearance of racism...

The problem, as I've said before, is threefold:

1: A public figure can't afford too many unfortunate gaffes before earning (deserved or not) a reputation.
2: For a president, anything more than one is too many.
3: Donald has had far more than one.

Yeah, I get all that. I really do. He is not the best speaker and he says a lot of stuff in the wrong way. I am more interested in what actually gets accomplished.

Mind you, I wasn't trying to hyjack the thread and make it about Trump. I was stating that the president is trying to deal with issues we find in poorer neighborhoods. Including gun violence. But he made a comment that is haunting him. Even if it was not his intention to racist or even offensive, he did offend people.