It's Not Too Soon to Debate Gun Control

[HannahT]

Thank you. Sincere question...
How does gun registration limit access to a gun to the mentally ill?
How does it limit access to criminals?

I would interested in knowing too. I know many Presidents in the past - including Obama - have brought up the mentally ill challenge. Why I say challenge is that lobbyist for the Mentally Ill normally try to block it, because they are afraid of discrimination.

I don't think many people realize that this has happened, because it is NOT concentrated on. The melodramatics of the normal characters from both sides of this debate are brought up to fight in our media instead. They tend to THRIVE on this stuff.

Instead of seriously speaking about this? The stereotypes - which are discriminatory themselves - come out. The gun lovers is one, and the people that will claim people just want to take them away is the other. Notice the two extremes here! No one from the middle, and NO ONE representing the mentally ill are ever front and center. You might see one or the other on occasion, but the two extremes? They sell news space, and viewership.

Our country doesn't deal well with the mentally ill overall anyway. Not to many countries do.

 

[LostMarbels]

I think my biggest issue is legislation itself. Laws only affect those who abided by them. Criminals do not abide by Law. Neither does our governmentally established elites.

We watch movies about true events where the government sells drugs, smuggle people, munitions, and firearms. We read the unclassified documentation of these events. No one even blinks an eye.

But someone kills citizens, and the citizenry cries for its self to be disarmed. Terrorist kills civilians, and we need to make sure no civilians have weapons. Instead, we are actually called to placate them, and not be judgemental. Because somehow it is the citizenry's fault they are being attacked.

Kind of like the notion if a housewife would just watch her mouth she wouldn't get beat, and if she was to defend her self, it proves that all she wants to do is further inflame the situation.

That's not even logical.

Criminals do not care what your piece of paper tells them they cannot do. To them, that piece of paper is there to tell you what to do.

 

[Hank77]

I dont know the finer detail to your question except it's defined under the mental health act. ie if you have been placed under the mental health act then you will need a medical clearance. The Australian Medical Association is now pushing hard to tighten regulations further.
Firearms - 2017

So registering a gun does NOT keep the mentally ill from buying a gun, that is accomplished by a background check through medical records.

What about people with a criminal record?

 

[Hank77]

I would interested in knowing too. I know many Presidents in the past - including Obama - have brought up the mentally ill challenge. Why I say challenge is that lobbyist for the Mentally Ill normally try to block it, because they are afraid of discrimination.

I don't think many people realize that this has happened, because it is NOT concentrated on. The melodramatics of the normal characters from both sides of this debate are brought up to fight in our media instead. They tend to THRIVE on this stuff.

Instead of seriously speaking about this? The stereotypes - which are discriminatory themselves - come out. The gun lovers is one, and the people that will claim people just want to take them away is the other. Notice the two extremes here! No one from the middle, and NO ONE representing the mentally ill are ever front and center. You might see one or the other on occasion, but the two extremes? They sell news space, and viewership.

Our country doesn't deal well with the mentally ill overall anyway. Not to many countries do.

Registering guns does stop anyone from legally buying a gun. Background checks do.
So my question is how does registering guns stop people from having access to guns?

 

[HannahT]

Registering guns does stop anyone from legally buying a gun. Background checks do.
So my question is how does registering guns stop people from having access to guns?

I wouldn't think so. I mean if you have an individual that is off? For example, Sandy Hook? He took his mother's gun - killed her - and went on a rampage.

The man was clearly mentally challenged, and no one wants to deal with that aspect.

 

[Zoii]

So registering a gun does NOT keep the mentally ill from buying a gun, that is accomplished by a background check through medical records.

What about people with a criminal record?

Im not sure Hank tbh and you may be right - I may be wrong but I understood the background check was part of the registering. I'll have to do some googling.

Look to me legal restrictions on speeding, and the registering of your vehicle, all helps make the roads safer. But it wont stop you from speeding if you choose to. But knowing theres massive fine, speed cameras about, and cops on the road, act as deterrents to misuse the privilege. Same for gun ownership.

In Australia though we go one step further and that aims to simply reduce the number of guns in the country and the number of registered owners. For me personally Ive never seen a gun...oh wait yes I have on a policeman's belt.

 

[Zoii]

I wouldn't think so. I mean if you have an individual that is off? For example, Sandy Hook? He took his mother's gun - killed her - and went on a rampage.

The man was clearly mentally challenged, and no one wants to deal with that aspect.

what happened in Texas. Do you guys know why he did it?

 

[super animator]

View media item 56259

Image give me wired error message when I was not log in.

 

[LostMarbels]

Im not sure Hank tbh and you may be right - I may be wrong but I understood the background check was part of the registering. I'll have to do some googling.

Look to me legal restrictions on speeding, and the registering of your vehicle, all helps make the roads safer. But it wont stop you from speeding if you choose to. But knowing theres massive fine, speed cameras about, and cops on the road, act as deterrents to misuse the privilege. Same for gun ownership.

In Australia though we go one step further and that aims to simply reduce the number of guns in the country and the number of registered owners. For me personally Ive never seen a gun...oh wait yes I have on a policeman's belt.

I just want to put it out there that true criminals know the laws, and know how to get around them. The law-abiding individual is indeed restricted, but a criminal will go right around any registration at all. Either by stealing them, buying them on a street corner, or even on the internet on a darknet site.

I actually had a guy ask me how is it possible to mail guns from the internet. Well, they lie. The mindset that you cant mail guns by Fed Ex exists because it is 'illegal'. Thusly, limiting only those who rightly abide by the law. To a criminal, it is just business. We, the law-abiding citizens, call it smuggling.

It's just like anything. From child porn to drugs, they're illegal. So they are not so easily obtained that you can just walk up to someone and ask to buy something illegal. You will probably get shot yourself for being stupid. Instead, you have to know someone that has a connect, and you need to be known before they will even let you know they might possibly be able to get you something illegal. So again, to the law-abiding citizen, this all seems really difficult or even impossible. But criminal operate in such ways on a daily basis.

Can you please explain how the restricting of law-abiding citizens affects criminals?

 

[HannahT]

So registering a gun does NOT keep the mentally ill from buying a gun, that is accomplished by a background check through medical records.

What about people with a criminal record?

I don't have all the answers here Hank! lol!

I believe if you have been in an institution for mental health you can't get one. Although, Lanza just took his mother's. Don't know how you can stop that. Although, they didn't help Lanza with his mental issues the way the system is set up presently. She wasn't in that boat alone - can't get the proper help - and she had the resources from what it sounds like. She also sounded like she enabled him, and maybe could have benefited from some support services. You read all the time about caregivers getting burned out.

I though certain criminals - certain classes of crimes - couldn't get firearms. Although, they can steal them and use them.

 

[HannahT]

what happened in Texas. Do you guys know why he did it?

It's to early to know.

 

[Hank77]

and the registering of your vehicle, all helps make the roads safer.

How does registering a vehicle make the roads safer?

Being required to pass a driving test does make the roads safer.

 

[jardiniere]

How do you, anyone, think registering guns would stop crimes committed with guns?

Has anyone claimed it will stop crimes committed with guns? I haven't seen that.

I'll edit to add that I think registration, along with fingerprinting and gun insurance for registered owners, will make gun crimes less prevalent for these reasons:
Registered, fingerprinted owners must face penalties for "losing" a gun (i.e. selling on black market), so if their gun is used in a crime, they must pay penalties. If their gun is used in an accidental discharge that kills or injures, they must forfeit their guns and not be able to buy guns for a set amount of time. Gun insurance is mandatory, like car insurance, and if they have been found negligent (loss of guns or accident with guns), they forfeit their guns.
This is to bring to gun owners, front and center, with a bullseye, the responsibilities of gun ownership, and to let owners know that the right to bear arms comes with the responsibility to use them wisely.

I would anticipate less selling of guns by owners if they aren't sure the buyer is going to register the gun, since the previous owner would be held culpable for the gun's use in a crime. Again, this is to drive home the issue of how important responsible gun ownership is.

 

[Zoii]

How does registering a vehicle make the roads safer?

Being required to pass a driving test does make the roads safer.

Oh well here part of the process to register a vehicle checks that the car is road worthy and insured for third party personal injury.

 

[Zoii]

I just want to put it out there that true criminals know the laws, and know how to get around them. The law-abiding individual is indeed restricted, but a criminal will go right around any registration at all. Either by stealing them, buying them on a street corner, or even on the internet on a darknet site.

I actually had a guy ask me how is it possible to mail guns from the internet. Well, they lie. The mindset that you cant mail guns by Fed Ex exists because it is 'illegal'. Thusly, limiting only those who rightly abide by the law. To a criminal, it is just business. We, the law-abiding citizens, call it smuggling.

It's just like anything. From child porn to drugs, they're illegal. So they are not so easily obtained that you can just walk up to someone and ask to buy something illegal. You will probably get shot yourself for being stupid. Instead, you have to know someone that has a connect, and you need to be known before they will even let you know they might possibly be able to get you something illegal. So again, to the law-abiding citizen, this all seems really difficult or even impossible. But criminal operate in such ways on a daily basis.

Can you please explain how the restricting of law-abiding citizens affects criminals?

Well in Australia if a mafia type owns a gun its not to go on a shooting spree in a church; that just doesnt happen here - Id say he's using it within his/her lil circle of bad guys. The average law abiding citizen doesnt own guns in Australia. Thats not to say some Australians dont own guns because they do - but they have to have a genuine reason such as security, farming etc and theres significant restrictions on the type of gun they can own.

That said we still have gun deaths and while its low it could be lowered still and there are many focused on achieving that through tighter regulation.

In America Im guessing that so many have grown up with guns. They know and respect them and manage them responsibly and have a high sense of civic duty. The things said against guns arent aimed at that group - they are aimed at those who have not used them responsibility resulting in tens of thousands of deaths in the USA each year. In the USA even the basics are failing eg gun storage. If you had good systems you wouldnt have over 700 children under the age of ten killed each year by another toddler.

You have to find a way to balance your civil liberties to enjoy your passion for guns, while acknowledging you have a serious flaw in your gun ownership system, that is failing to protect your own society. You need to reconcile this.

 

[HannahT]

This is to bring to gun owners, front and center, with a bullseye, the responsibilities of gun ownership, and to let owners know that the right to bear arms comes with the responsibility to use them wisely.

So, you want to bulls eye gun owners because of what criminals do?

I don't think most gun owners have an issue with what you said (insurance, etc), but I would have an issue with you assuming the worse - it almost sounds like all 'gun owners' faults that nut cases go off on a killing spree.

I'm NOT a gun owner by the way.

Most registered gun owners aren't the ones going out, and doing these crazy things.

 

[Rubiks]

Why not require guns use biometric authentication so only registered gun owners can fire them?

 

[Rubiks]

It's pretty much a settled issue. The Supreme Court has already ruled on it.

They've also ruled that the constitution permits laws preventing the mentally ill from purchasing guns.

 

[Rubiks]

I agree with your view. Its much more preferable to remove every single gun from citizens and destroy them.

Good luck amending the constitution

 

[Zoii]

Good luck amending the constitution

I think you better wish the USA well. My country isnt facing the same issues