It is fitting to canonize John XXIII and John Paul II as the twin bookends of the...

[Michie]

...Second Vatican Council

Pope Francis’s bold decisions to canonize Blessed John XXIII without the normal post-beatification miracle, and to link Good Pope John’s canonization ceremony to that of Blessed John Paul II, just may help re-orient Catholic thinking about modern Catholic history. For what Francis is suggesting, I think...

It is fitting to canonize John XXIII and John Paul II as the twin bookends of the Second Vatican Council...

 

[Michie]

SSPX leader decries canonizations of Popes John XXIII, John Paul II

The leaders of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) “vigorously protest” the canonizations of Popes John XXIII and John Paul II, Bishop Bernard Fellay has announced.

The traditionalist prelate, who remains suspended from ministry, said that the canonization of the two Pontiffs is unacceptable because both are connected with the Second Vatican Council, “whose rotten fruits are the indisputable indication of the Church’s self-destruction.” Bishop Fellay said that the “errors contained in the documents of the Vatican Council, and particularly the liturgical reforms, “could not possibly be the work of the Holy Ghost.”

Summarizing his complaints against the two Pontiffs, Bishop Fellay asked “how can it be possible to offer to the whole Church as an example of sanctity the instigator of Vatican Council II and the Pope of Assisi and human rights?”

"We vigorously protest these canonizations" (SSPX)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

SSPX doesn't have the authority to tell the Pope who he can and can't canonize. If we were talking about Catholic bishops who are in communion with Rome then they would be able to give their advice to the Pope before the Pope makes his decision. But once the Pope decides who he wants to canonize that's it unless the Holy Spirit prevents the Pope from going through with the canonization.

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

Good Pope John's pontificate was solid. Blessed Pope John Paul II's? It had its bright spots, and in other areas it was a monumental disaster. And if we wish to speak of bookends, then we have to look to Pope Emeritus Benedixt XVI for being the man that steered the Church back into the proper understanding of the Second Vatican Council (the hermeneutic of continuity).

I believe that the canonisation of Blessed Pope John Paul II will be an imprudent decision. His pontificate has not been critically analysed and many glaring faults and failures are simply swept under the carpet. The cult of personality that grew up around him, and which is growing up around Pope Francis, has in my view led people to simply be blind.

I fully expect the cults of John XXIII and John Paul II to be employed as whacking sticks by certain people to beat around the head of orthodox and conservative Catholics. But I can't honestly let that fact bother me too much, in a few days two more men will be declared to be participating in the Beatific Vision, two more men will be declared to have been saved, and furthermore those two men will be interceding for us and for the Church at the throne of His Majesty. For that, I heartily rejoice!

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I believe that the canonisation of Blessed Pope John Paul II will be an imprudent decision. His pontificate has not been critically analysed and many glaring faults and failures are simply swept under the carpet. The cult of personality that grew up around him, and which is growing up around Pope Francis, has in my view led people to simply be blind.

I know that you go on to say how you are happy about the canonizations, but I disagree with you this part of what you say about John Paul II. He was very popular, but he wasn't a mere cult of personality. He did many great things and things that showed heroic virtue. One example of heroic virtue I can think of is how when he got shot and nearly died he went afterward to the prison cell of the man who tried to kill him and forgave the man. How many people would do that? And he did a lot of other things such as giving the Church a universal Catechism, canonizing many saints, traveling and proclaiming the gospel all around the world despite his struggle with old age and poor health, and writing numerous papal encyclicals and other writings, such as his Theology of the Bodyhttp://www.theologyofthebody.net/, that promoted the gospel of life.

You say that these canonizations will be used as "whacking sticks by certain people to beat around the head of orthodox and conservative Catholics." John Paul II was totally orthodox. He did not hold back on the truth and even called abortion murder in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae. There's been a myth about John XXIII being a liberal, but he was also fully orthodox. This is clear by reading the encyclicals that John XXIII wrote.

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

I know that you go on to say how you are happy about the canonizations, but I disagree with you this part of what you say about Pope John Paul II. He was very popular, but he wasn't a mere cult of personality. He did many great things and things that showed heroic virtue. One example of heroic virtue I can think of is how when he got shot and nearly died he went afterward to the prison cell of the man who tried to kill him and forgave the man. How many people would do that? And he did a lot of other things such as giving the Church a universal Catechism, canonizing many saints, traveling and proclaiming the gospel all around the world despite his struggle with old age and poor health, and writing numerous papal encyclicals and other writings, such as his Theology of the Body, that promoted the gospel of life.

I do not for a second doubt his personal sanctity. He was an extraordinary holy man, and his devotion to Our Blessed Lady is truly wonderful. But that doesn't necessarily save his pontificate. Underneath his reign, liberals and modernists wreacked havoc. With him we got the Assisi Gatherings. With him we had him kissing the Koran. With him we have the largest sexual abuse scandal in the Church's history, and his support for that beast Maciel Marcial. That universal catechism we got is far from perfect and has had to be subject to revisions before. The Theology of the Body I am reserved on. His pontificate also oversaw massive abuses of the Sacred Liturgy. Religious professions are down, priestly ordinations are down, the pews are empty, the bishops have no spines and the priests are emasculated milquetoasts.

His personal holiness is beautiful. His pontificate had many bright points and many of his personal achievements cannot be disregarded. Nor can many of his disastrous failures and neglects.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Nothing wrong with the Assisi Gatherings.

In fact, when it came to world religions, Pope John Paul II built many bridges and brought many people to the Catholic Church.

Also, he did much to stop the bigotry by Catholics towards people of other religions.

Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Also, he did much to stop the bigotry by Catholics towards people of other religions.

Can you elaborate on that part?

 

[Michie]

Benedict XVI: "I knew during his life that John Paul II was a saint"

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

Nothing wrong with the Assisi Gatherings.

"Thus, for instance, if a man were to "sit at meat in the idol's temple" (1 Corinthians 8:10), though this is not sinful in itself, provided it be done with no evil intention, yet, since it has a certain appearance of evil, and a semblance of worshiping the idol, it might occasion another man's spiritual downfall. Hence the Apostle says (1 Thessalonians 5:22): "From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves."

Assisi contributed to an impression of the Church embracing relativism and indifferentism. The pope sat by merrily as pagans and heretics worshiped their false gods and humanistic religions in a Catholic churchbasilica. The fact is, the world understood all of this to be nothing more than the promotion of what amounts to syncretism. Pagans placed a statue of their idol above the tabernacle and worshiped it and burned incense to it. That, quite frankly, is disgusting.

In fact, when it came to world religions, Pope John Paul II built many bridges and brought many people to the Catholic Church.

And his failure to insist on the necessity of belonging to the Catholic Church also reaffirmed the majority in their heresy, schism and idolatry.

Also, he did much to stop the bigotry by Catholics towards people of other religions.

Only if you believe that maintaining the necessity of being baptised and belonging to the Catholic Church, subject to the Roman Pontiff, is necessary for salvation, and that the Catholic faith possesses the fullness of the truth and that all other false religions are inherently flawed and perverted amounts to bigotry. If so you're right. That plan as a rip-roaring success.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[Michie]

Confirmed: Benedict to attend canonizations
Rome official: Retired pope to attend canonizations; spokesman cautious

 

[Michie]

HIGHLIGHT OF JOHN PAUL II'S DAY WAS THE HOUR AND A HALF HE SPENT BEFORE THE BLESSED SACRAMENT
John Paul II and The Blessed Sacrament | Catholic World Report - Global Church news and views

 

[GutenbergPrintPress1454]

Blessed Pope John Paul II's? It had its bright spots, and in other areas it was a monumental disaster... I believe that the canonisation of Blessed Pope John Paul II will be an imprudent decision. His pontificate has not been critically analysed and many glaring faults and failures are simply swept under the carpet...
Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

I agree with you on that, SCIM.
The canonisation of John Paul II is a bit imprudent. And I believe so is the canonisation of John XXIII.

Our Lord instructed us that we should judge a tree by its FRUITS. Since 1958, all popes are 'saints' * , but yet the Church is in such crisis, the society is so corrupted and evil and
communist countries are getting stronger and stronger**...

* (They wished to canonize/beatify JPI and Paul VI as well)
** (Some Latin American countries are becoming socialistic, especially Venezuela. Putin is trying to rebuild Soviet Union, according to R Perle. Don't forget Putin was a Kgb agent.)

 

[Tallguy88]

I agree with you on that, SCIM.
The canonisation of John Paul II is a bit imprudent. And I believe so is the canonisation of John XXIII.

Our Lord instructed us that we should judge a tree by its FRUITS. Since 1958, all popes are 'saints' , but yet the Church is in such crisis, the society is so corrupted and evil and
communist countries are getting stronger and stronger...

(They wished to canonize/beatify JPI and Paul VI as well)

Communist countries are getting stronger? Aside from China, which Communist country is getting stronger? North Korea is on the verge of starvation. Cuba is mired in poverty. Vietnam is doing ok from what I can tell, but certainly is no threat to the US.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Confirmed: Benedict to attend canonizations
Rome official: Retired pope to attend canonizations; spokesman cautious

I think it's so cool the way Pope Francis shows love and respect for his predecessor. It symbolizes continuity.

 

[Michie]

I think it's so cool the way Pope Francis shows love and respect for his predecessor. It symbolizes continuity.

I agree. There is a deep respect there. I love the pictures of them together.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
[SIZE=+1]NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965[/SIZE]




1. In our time, when day by day mankind is being drawn closer together, and the ties between different peoples are becoming stronger, the Church examines more closely her relationship to non-Christian religions. In her task of promoting unity and love among men, indeed among nations, she considers above all in this declaration what men have in common and what draws them to fellowship.



One is the community of all peoples, one their origin, for God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth.(1) One also is their final goal, God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, His saving design extend to all men,(2) until that time when the elect will be united in the Holy City, the city ablaze with the glory of God, where the nations will walk in His light.(3)



Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what is sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?



The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.



Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-christian religions - Nostra Aetate

Pope John Paul II, understood this document very well.

In his calling leaders of the world's religions to Assissi for dialogue, he was not embracing paganism, nor beliefs outside of Christ, but bringing about and sharing the truths that all the religions share.

He also enabled those of other religions to see the truths in the Catholic Faith which bigotry against them, as expressed in this very thread unfortunately, only helped to keep them blind to our faith.

John Paul II preached the Gospel to all nations as Jesus commanded, and he did so by living it.

Jim

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

Pope John Paul II, understood this document very well.

It's a nice wee document.

In his calling leaders of the world's religions to Assissi for dialogue, he was not embracing paganism, nor beliefs outside of Christ, but bringing about and sharing the truths that all the religions share.

I am well aware of that. I have not said anything against his intentions, I am addressing the actual impact of his actions.

He also enabled those of other religions to see the truths in the Catholic Faith which bigotry against them, as expressed in this very thread unfortunately, only helped to keep them blind to our faith.

Such as?

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[Michie]

Pope Francis issues messages for canonizations of John XXIII, John Paul II

Pope Francis has issued messages on the occasion of the upcoming canonizations of Blessed John XXIII and Blessed John Paul II.

Pope Francis addressed his first message to the people of Bergamo, the northern Italian province in which John XXIII was born. “I invite you to thank the Lord for the great gift that his sanctity was for the universal Church, and I encourage you to cherish the memory of the land in which it germinated, a land made of profound faith lived out in daily life.” Bergamo, Pope Francis said, is a land of families that are “poor, but united by love of the Lord” and of communities “capable of sharing in simplicity.”

John XXIII’s legacy, Pope Francis added, “can inspire even today a Church called to live the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing … The renewal desired by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council opened the way, and it is a special joy that the canonization of Pope Roncalli [John XXIII] happens alongside that of Blessed John Paul II,” who continued “the renewal in his long pontificate,” said Pope Francis.

In a video message to Poles, Pope Francis said that “John Paul II continues to inspire us. His words, his writings, his gestures, his style of service, inspire us. His suffering lived with hope inspires us,” as does “his total trust in Christ, the Redeemer of man, and the Mother of God.”

Quoting Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Francis added:

What the newly-elected Pope asked of everyone, he was himself the first to do: society, culture, political and economic systems he opened up to Christ, turning back with the strength of a titan – a strength which came to him from God – a tide which appeared irreversible. By his witness of faith, love and apostolic courage, accompanied by great human charisma, this exemplary son of Poland helped believers throughout the world not to be afraid to be called Christian, to belong to the Church, to speak of the Gospel. In a word: he helped us not to fear the truth, because truth is the guarantee of liberty.​

Messaggio del Santo Padre ai bergamaschi in occasione della Canonizzazione del Beato Giovanni XXIII (Holy See Press Office)

Videomessaggio del Santo Padre ai polacchi in occasione della Canonizzazione del Beato Giovanni Paolo II (Holy See Press Office)

The Pope Congratulates the Compatriots of the Two Pope Saints (VIS)

 

[Michie]

Pope Francis issues messages for canonizations of John XXIII, John Paul II

Pope Francis has issued messages on the occasion of the upcoming canonizations of Blessed John XXIII and Blessed John Paul II.

Pope Francis addressed his first message to the people of Bergamo, the northern Italian province in which John XXIII was born. “I invite you to thank the Lord for the great gift that his sanctity was for the universal Church, and I encourage you to cherish the memory of the land in which it germinated, a land made of profound faith lived out in daily life.” Bergamo, Pope Francis said, is a land of families that are “poor, but united by love of the Lord” and of communities “capable of sharing in simplicity.”

John XXIII’s legacy, Pope Francis added, “can inspire even today a Church called to live the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing … The renewal desired by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council opened the way, and it is a special joy that the canonization of Pope Roncalli [John XXIII] happens alongside that of Blessed John Paul II,” who continued “the renewal in his long pontificate,” said Pope Francis.

In a video message to Poles, Pope Francis said that “John Paul II continues to inspire us. His words, his writings, his gestures, his style of service, inspire us. His suffering lived with hope inspires us,” as does “his total trust in Christ, the Redeemer of man, and the Mother of God.”

Quoting Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Francis added:

What the newly-elected Pope asked of everyone, he was himself the first to do: society, culture, political and economic systems he opened up to Christ, turning back with the strength of a titan – a strength which came to him from God – a tide which appeared irreversible. By his witness of faith, love and apostolic courage, accompanied by great human charisma, this exemplary son of Poland helped believers throughout the world not to be afraid to be called Christian, to belong to the Church, to speak of the Gospel. In a word: he helped us not to fear the truth, because truth is the guarantee of liberty.​

Messaggio del Santo Padre ai bergamaschi in occasione della Canonizzazione del Beato Giovanni XXIII (Holy See Press Office)

Videomessaggio del Santo Padre ai polacchi in occasione della Canonizzazione del Beato Giovanni Paolo II (Holy See Press Office)

The Pope Congratulates the Compatriots of the Two Pope Saints (VIS)