It is fitting to canonize John XXIII and John Paul II as the twin bookends of the...

[Michie]

Benedict XVI to concelebrate at canonization mass...

 

[Michie]

HUGE CROWD FOR HISTORIC CANONIZATIONS

Report from Rome: Crowds have gathered in front of dramatic banners with the images of John Paul II and John XXIII, with police and technicians rolling in, dozens of priests discussing protocol on the stage at the steps, and thousands of pilgrims milling about the main street leading to St. Peter's, at times causing it to be almost two-thirds filled. Workers have replaced the tomb nameplate that said "Blessed John Paul II" with a dramatic one that now reads, "Sanctus Ioannes Paulus II"! About 150 cardinals, 700 bishops, and thousands of priests are present, with six hundred priests assisting at Communion. Latest estimates are one million.
VATICAN RADIO - OFFICIAL SITE - Home page

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[Michie]

Vatican webcam
Cupola di S.Pietro

Live coverage
Vatican Radio - Player

 

[Michie]

The day of four Popes
Catholics Around The World Get Set For The ‘Day Of Four Popes’ | Fox News Latino

The ceremony
News from The Associated Press

 

[Michie]

Women recount miracle healings tied to both Popes
Women recount the stories of healing through intercession of popes

 

[AXO]

The SSPX isn't in communion with Rome, they have no authority.

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

The SSPX isn't in communion with Rome, they have no authority.

We can't quite go that far, yet. Hopefully the situation is clarified by Rome, that the Society may renounce the path they are walking.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[Armoured]

Others are opposing this canonisation too, though from different ends of the spectrum PressTV - Catholic Church sex abuse victims hold vigil in Vatican

 

[AXO]

We can't quite go that far, yet. Hopefully the situation is clarified by Rome, that the Society may renounce the path they are walking.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

–With the Motu Proprio Ecclesiae Unitatem, promulgated on 2 July 2009, His Holiness updated the structure of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei in order to adapt it to the new situation created by the removal of the excommunication (21 January 2009) of the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre. That removal was a provision within the perimeter of canonical discipline in order to free persons from the weight of the gravest ecclesiastical censure, but still with the awareness that doctrinal questions remain and until they are resolved, the "Priestly Society of St. Pius X" cannot enjoy a canonical statute in the Church and its ministers do not exercise any legitimate ministry in the church.
Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei", §6

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

–That removal was a provision within the perimeter of canonical discipline in order to free persons from the weight of the gravest ecclesiastical censure, but still with the awareness that doctrinal questions remain and until they are resolved the "Priestly Society of St. Pius X" cannot enjoy a canonical statute in the Church and its ministers do not exercise any legitimate ministry in the church.
Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei", §6

That does not mean that the Society is in an official state of schism. It means that they do not exercise any ministry in the Church. They are suspended, which is something only a member of the Church can be under. It's like when a priest is accused of wrong-doing and he has removed from his position and his faculties are suspended. Such a priest in not in schism, he just doesn't have the necessary faculties to exercise a ministry.

I wish the Church would blatantly say in black and white terms that the Society has crossed into a state of schism, for the spiritual health of everyone involved. But as it stands, we can't say that.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[AXO]

That does not mean that the Society is in an official state of schism. It means that they do not exercise any ministry in the Church. They are suspended, which is something only a member of the Church can be under. It's like when a priest is accused of wrong-doing and he has removed from his position and his faculties are suspended. Such a priest in not in schism, he just doesn't have the necessary faculties to exercise a ministry.

I wish the Church would blatantly say in black and white terms that the Society has crossed into a state of schism, for the spiritual health of everyone involved. But as it stands, we can't say that.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

–The leaders of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) are in schism, and remain suspended from the sacraments, says the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Archbishop Gerhard Müller said that although Pope Benedict XVI lifted the canonical excommunication of SSPX prelates, they remain suspended from the sacraments because “by their schism they have broken away from communion with the Church.”
Archbishop Müller said that while talks with the SSPX have reach an impasse, the Vatican will not close the door to reconciliation. However, he said, a restoration of full communion would require the SSPX to accept the authority of the Church and of the Pope.
"CDF [Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith] prefect says SSPX in schism, suspended from sacraments" (Catholic Culture, December 23, 2013).

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

–The leaders of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) are in schism, and remain suspended from the sacraments, says the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Archbishop Gerhard Müller said that although Pope Benedict XVI lifted the canonical excommunication of SSPX prelates, they remain suspended from the sacraments because “by their schism they have broken away from communion with the Church.”
Archbishop Müller said that while talks with the SSPX have reach an impasse, the Vatican will not close the door to reconciliation. However, he said, a restoration of full communion would require the SSPX to accept the authority of the Church and of the Pope.
"CDF [Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith] prefect says SSPX in schism, suspended from sacraments" (Catholic Culture, December 23, 2013).

And interviews given to secular gossip rags doesn't amount to an official clarification from the Holy See. He can certainly believe that Society to be in schism, because their actions and attitudes are certainly symptomatic of such a reality. But it's not official yet, and His Grace's off-the-cuff words do not constitute an official judicial act.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And interviews given to secular gossip rags doesn't amount to an official clarification from the Holy See. He can certainly believe that Society to be in schism, because their actions and attitudes are certainly symptomatic of such a reality. But it's not official yet, and His Grace's off-the-cuff words do not constitute an official judicial act.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, is quoted in the article and it's not the opinion of the interviewer.

In other words, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, is speaking from a position of authority in the Catholic Church.


Jim

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, is quoted in the article and it's not the opinion of the interviewer.

In other words, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, is speaking from a position of authority in the Catholic Church.


Jim

I am well aware that His Grace is the one making the comments. What I am saying is that an interview like this does not constitute a judicial sentence or declaration. When the SSPX's schism is published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis then we can clearly say that the SSPX is in a state of schism. As it is, it is not so.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am well aware that His Grace is the one making the comments. What I am saying is that an interview like this does not constitute a judicial sentence or declaration. When the SSPX's schism is published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis then we can clearly say that the SSPX is in a state of schism. As it is, it is not so.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

The statement Cardinal Müller made are the official status of SSPX with the Catholic Church.

Personally. Pope Benedict XVI made an error trying to bring them back by allowing the TLM.

He should've known that the leaders of SSPX would not change their positions and the opening the door a crack in a compromise with them, only led to greater divisions within the Church itself.


We see it in this forum and especially at CAF.

Pope Benedict XVI should stood firm like Pope John Paul II did.


Jim

 

[Mary's Bhoy]

The statement Cardinal Müller made are the official status of SSPX with the Catholic Church.

No, it isn't. It should be, but there has been no official act from the Holy See and her congregations on the matter. And His Grace giving an interview in a secular newspaper does not constitute an official act.

Personally. Pope Benedict XVI made an error trying to bring them back by allowing the TLM.

He should've known that the leaders of SSPX would not change their positions and the opening the door a crack in a compromise with them, only led to greater divisions within the Church itself.

We see it in this forum and especially at CAF.

Pope Benedict XVI should stood firm like Pope John Paul II did.

I agree with you to an extent about the Holy Father's attempts to reconcile the SSPX. They are not going to budge from their position which necessitates the wholesale condemnation of an Ecumenical Council. They are like Luther, who condemned the abuse made of Indulgences, who then went on to attack the doctrine of Indulgence itself. But on the other hand he was obliged to make the effort in the interests of their souls and their salvation, because the path they have taken is fraught with danger and peril. But I don't think you quite respect the sense of responsibility he felt, no only as the Bishop of Rome, but also for the fact that the SSPX came into existence because of intolerable abuses they grew up in the wake of Vatican II.

What I heartily disagree with you on is that the Holy Father was wrong to grant usage of the the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite to all priests of the Latin Church. I find your position on that to be wholly ill-founded. But I don't see any real point in arguing it with you. On the Last Day all will be revealed, and you will be aware of great deed the Holy Father performed with his motu proprio.

God willing we will not have to wait so long, and the Roman Rite will once again be restored to its ancient glory and venerable beauty within your life time.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

 

[Michie]

"We declare and define John XXIII and John Paul II to be Saints, decreeing that they are to be venerated...”...

 

[Michie]

VIDEO: Mass for the Canonization of Sts. John XXIII and John Paul II (declaration at 47:20 mark)

 

[Michie]

At the heart of this Sunday, which concludes the Octave of Easter and which John Paul II wished to dedicate to Divine Mercy, are the glorious wounds of the risen Jesus. He had already shown those wounds when he first appeared to the Apostles on the very evening of that day following the Sabbath, the day of the resurrection. But, as we heard...

Sts. John XXIII and John Paul II looked upon the wounds of Christ and bore witness to his mercy...

 

[Michie]

When Pope John Paul II was coming to Denver in 1993, reporters were predicting an absolute failure. They thought he might be able to get 20,000 people to show up. But 750,000 Catholic young people came to Cherry Creek State Park to celebrate their faith with the Holy Father. I was one of them.

For young Catholics around the world, St. John Paul II stood out like a light in the darkness...