Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[KEPLER]

G-d made a covenant with Israel...that covenant has not changed...nor will it until *all* is fulfilled...

It is all fulfilled in Christ.

Period.

 

[KEPLER]

but the NT was not written until after this?? There were Jewish believers also at the time.. the NT writers were Jewish

Oh, good grief. What the heck does it matter when the NT itself was written????

By "NT believers" I'm talking about the beliivers who understood and followed Christ. For the first egeneration, most of those people were JEWS. But they understaood the what the "New Covenant" was and that they belonged to it.

Mary and Martha probably couldn't even read, but becasue they followed Jesus, that are what I mean when I say "NT Believers".

Is that really that hard to understand?????????

 

[KEPLER]

actually it is impossible to understand the NT w/o the OT and equally impossible to understand the OT w/o understanding the Chosen People, their ways and their world... Don't kill them off to fast or the true interpretation of the whole bible may be lost to us who are merely grafted in...

Absolutely bass-ackwards and 100% wrong.

Why do think evangelists walk around passing around New Testaments????

The Gospel of Jesus Christ stands by itself, and needs no other explanation.

If someone tries to make the OT stand by itself, they will become a Jew.

After they had watched Him die, the Apostles couldn't figure out whatv went wrong. Jesus had to explain to them on the Road to Emmaus what the OT REALLY meant! The Gospel.

The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel The Gospel

There are ONLY shadows of the Gospel in the OT. Jesus is the LIGHT.

END. OF. DISCUSSION.

 

[KEPLER]

This is outrageous! Please include documentation with your facts ....You are " on the way " to becoming a discredit to Christianity with that kind of slander

Bombings in crowded markets, and on buses. Where do you think the Palestinians learned it from?

I recommend this book: One Palestine, Complete.

Kepler

 

[KEPLER]

He is finished with the political nation of Israel, but not with individual Jews.

GOD never wanted the Jews to have a King, but they demanded one, so He gave them one (SAUL). But He told them that one day HE would be their King, and that HAS BEEN FULFILLED in Jesus.

There was NEVER: NOT ONCE: a promise for an earthly Kingdom. That was NEVER the plan. It was always a SPIRITUAL kingdom that was promised.

He now deals with Jews just like everyone else: they come to Him through Jesus. They are not excluded. They were the original members of the Covenant, and God has NOT turned His back on them. He is now making His calling sure through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.

K

ermmmmm

heh

The millenial kingdom is the fulfillment of His covenant with the Jews.

Replacement theology is a dangerous track...as well as a fairly recent development in theology. Only in the last 90 years or so has this theory been taught.

It's a shame that so many people want our land, by might, by deception or just plain greed of the sites that Messiah visited.

Not one invasion of the land of Israel (holy land) has been on behalf of the Jews and we are quite aware of how most gentiles regard it as their own, Despite the promise to the father of our nation, Abraham.

There are no more jews? Then what am I, I ask...

there are more anti semitic statements in this thread than I have heard or read in a very long time.

GWENYFUR,

I will give you ONE chance to apologize.

1) Calling me anti-semitic was unfounded, ugly, and baseless. Nothing of what I wrote can in any way shape or form be taken as "anti-semitic" by any rational and educated person. PERIOD.

2) My wife is Jewish. I am SURE shewould very surprised to discover I am anti-semitic.

3) There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology". There is Biblical theology (what I believe) and there is dispensationalism (what you believe). Biblical theology is, well, Biblical. Dispensationalism is heterodoxy bordering on HERESY.

God has ONE people whim he has called to worship Him. In the OT they were called "qahal" which is translated as "assembly". In the NT they are called "ekklesia" which is translated as "assembly".

ONE PEOPLE. Which formerly comprised ONLY Jews and NOW comprsies BOTH Jews AND Gentiles.

For those of Jewish heritage who believe in Jesus Christ, they shall (along with their Gentile brothers and Sisters) inherit ALL of God's promises.

For those of Jewish heritage who deny that Jesus is Messiah, there are ONLY eternal flames awaiting.

This has been the belief of the Christian Church for 2000 years, not the last 90. You are REQUIRED to back things up with empirical evidence. So where's the evidence for this "90 years" nonsense?

As I said, you have ONE chance to apologize.

Kepler

 

[GraceInHim]

Oh, good grief. What the heck does it matter when the NT itself was written????

By "NT believers" I'm talking about the beliivers who understood and followed Christ. For the first egeneration, most of those people were JEWS. But they understaood the what the "New Covenant" was and that they belonged to it.

Mary and Martha probably couldn't even read, but becasue they followed Jesus, that are what I mean when I say "NT Believers".

Is that really that hard to understand?????????

they were also OT believers... then why is the OT in our Bibles??? The Prophets are not fulfilled.. many who think thier Church has taken over God may, but God has the last word.. Jesus will still judge this earth.. (people on it) .. and when he does come, it will be on the Mount of Olives.. we Gentiles have been grafted in...

and Zech 14-4 has not happened yet..

 

[Tishri1]

Bombings in crowded markets, and on buses. Where do you think the Palestinians learned it from?

I recommend this book: One Palestine, Complete.

Kepler

is that a story, or a documentary? could you please quote and paste the part you are trying to witness from?

 

[GraceInHim]

is that a story, or a documentary? could you please quote and paste the part you are trying to witness from?

Hi Tishri

found this verse and really interesting

Matt. 5: 17-19 Yeshua/Jesus is speaking... "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

seems correct

 

[Tishri1]

Hi Tishri

found this verse and really interesting

Matt. 5: 17-19 Yeshua/Jesus is speaking... "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

seems correct

I agree, love the last part too

Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

can I call you "great" GraceinHim

 

[GraceInHim]

I agree, love the last part too

Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

can I call you "great" GraceinHim

I got it from your forum.. he he

 

[KEPLER]

is that a story, or a documentary? could you please quote and paste the part you are trying to witness from?

Umm, I thought the part where I said it was a "book" would have clued you in that it is a ..."book"....

K

 

[Gwenyfur]

OK I can't stand it any more....here it is



It's LOVE hehehe Love is the nail on which ALL the Law and Prophesy hangs anyone who has Perfect Love has never nor will ever break a commandment...I would say Jesus was the guy who could do it! I try to walk in love though and thanks for the reminder to us all

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tishri1 again.



Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees!
Thanks my sister

​

 

[Gwenyfur]

GWENYFUR,

I will give you ONE chance to apologize.

1) Calling me anti-semitic was unfounded, ugly, and baseless. Nothing of what I wrote can in any way shape or form be taken as "anti-semitic" by any rational and educated person. PERIOD.

2) My wife is Jewish. I am SURE shewould very surprised to discover I am anti-semitic.

3) There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology". There is Biblical theology (what I believe) and there is dispensationalism (what you believe). Biblical theology is, well, Biblical. Dispensationalism is heterodoxy bordering on HERESY.

God has ONE people whim he has called to worship Him. In the OT they were called "qahal" which is translated as "assembly". In the NT they are called "ekklesia" which is translated as "assembly".

ONE PEOPLE. Which formerly comprised ONLY Jews and NOW comprsies BOTH Jews AND Gentiles.

For those of Jewish heritage who believe in Jesus Christ, they shall (along with their Gentile brothers and Sisters) inherit ALL of God's promises.

For those of Jewish heritage who deny that Jesus is Messiah, there are ONLY eternal flames awaiting.

This has been the belief of the Christian Church for 2000 years, not the last 90. You are REQUIRED to back things up with empirical evidence. So where's the evidence for this "90 years" nonsense?

As I said, you have ONE chance to apologize.

Kepler

ermmmm read that quote again, "on this thread" not you specifically...but if you wish an apology, "I am sorry you perceived that I had insulted you personally...that was not my intent."

as for the rest...G-d isn't finished with His chosen yet.

Replacement theology became populare in the late 19th century and became popularly accepted when Scofield started instructing it as doctrine. THe covenant with the Jews isn't done yet. Messianic or not. The gentiles are the graphtees My empirical evidence is scripture itself. His word remains the same "yesterday, today and forever." *If* it changed that would make G-d human and not divinely perfect. He hasn't ruled on earth as yet...and there hasn't been peace in Israel as yet...won't happen until millenial kingdom when He rules the earth and heals the nations

Shalom

 

[GraceInHim]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tishri1 again.




Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees!
Thanks my sister


​

hey I got a forest and trees

 

[OnTheWay]

. The gentiles are the graphtees
Shalom

The Tree is the tree of life, the tree that Christ was hung from on the cross. That is the tree that gentiles were grafted onto. There IS NO LONGER any difference between Jew and Greek (gentile).

Colossians 3:11-12
And in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, or between the barbarian and Scythian, slave and free. There is only Christ: He is everything and He is in everything. As the chose of God, then, the holy people whom he loves, you are to be clothed in heartfelt compassion, in generosity, and humility, gentleness, and patience.
Galatians 3:28-29
There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a Chosen race, a kingdom of priests, a holy nation, a people to a personal possession to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

From Matthew 8:8-12
The centurion replied, "Sir, I am not worhty to have youunder my roof; just give the word and my servant will be cured.
For I am under authority myself and have soldiers under me; and I say to one man "go," and he goes; to another "come here," and he comes; to my servant, "do this," and he does it.
When Jeus heard this he was astonished and said to those following Him, "in truth I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found faith as great as this.
And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacomb at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven.
But the children of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

As as we see from the master Himself, many gentiles from east and west will come into the Kingdom of Heaven. For as Galatians 3:28-29 tells us, if you are Christ's then you are an heir to Abraham. Equally so the master tells us that the children of the Kingdom, the Jews, will be thrown out into the darkness (hell) because they are not Christ's and if you do not belong to Christ then you are not Abraham's heir. There is ONE WAY for any man, Jew or Gentile, to be saved. That is to take up your cross and follow after Christ.

Now as we have so many here that do not understand the work of Christ and labor under the delusion the being an ethnic Jew matters we need further critical thinking. The state of Israel is largely comprised of Khazars, which are not ethnic Jews. The Shepardic Jews are the only people that can cliam vaild decent from Abraham. A rather small minority group even within Israel. The Arabic peoples in reality are much closer in decent to the Shepardic Jews than the Khazars are.

At the end of the day Israel is just another secular state.

 

[gal4God]

Israel should have it's land back/ peace in the middle east

 

[Scholar in training]

Scholar, I can see no anti semitism in you but Jesus's word just like ABBA's word cannot be changed

This statement is a bit too broad. Jesus and the Father's words don't change, but circumstances do. We should realize how to apply the words of God in many different circumstances.

Matt 5:17-19

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There must be another explaination than yours because we cannot teach or even think that He did this

Actually, this passage must be interpreted in light of (and does fit with) what I said earlier; that not all of the Law is applicable today. Jesus cannot be talking about all of the Law here.

The law is not only ABBA's will, his calling card, his Instruction... (Hey there's my perfect definition! See the relationship to Tutor here); the Law (Instruction)it is a place holder, a substitute Teacher if you will to look after us(not bring salvation or give us our passing grade).

The Teacher will send instructions on how He wants his class run in his absence and so the Law was given in the absence of the Lord till Messiah comes AND we see him with the eyes of Faith (believing Trust)But once Messiah(Teacher)comes does that nullify the other aspects of the law, being God's calling card, His Instruction? Does his will change or do the rules change?....Jesus says NO and so does Paul ...What does His appearing do then?

The Law is useful for teaching, but you might say that is only useful in a fallen world. We will have no need for the Law in the world to come, because we will not need to teach it to anyone; the "Law" will be written on our hearts. As a preterist, I believe that this has occured to some extent today. The priesthood and the sacrificial rituals of the Law are perishable, and have been superceded by Christ, the priest in the order of Melchizedek. It would not make sense for the sacrificial rituals of the Law to be "resurrected", if you will, in the world to come because the sacrificial rituals of the Law of Moses are uniquely suited to the mindset of ancient Israel. They were appropriate and useful for following during that time period, but not today, not in the future.

This doesn't mean that we should neglect to do things like fast. The Orthodox Church today is very much in accordance with fasting, from certain foods and sexual activity (although I have not looked at this in depth, I am rather certain that the fasting is emphasized during different times of the year). The Orthodox even fast before they partake of the Eucharist, much like the Israelites fasted and remained ritually clean before they met God on Mt. Sinai.

It brings Salvation the one promise the Law tells us we will have once the Messiah comes....The one thing the Law would not and could not do but heraded the promise of...now that we have faith in the presence of the promise, our obedience is not in vain or based on falsehood as in other Pagan religions, our faith and obedience is based in the Flesh and Blood person of Jesus...and what does he say? The rules you have been following in my absence stay! Do not teach and do not think differently! So what did change then? IMO the mode of discipline changed, Yeshua took our punishment! What an awesome Teacher he is!

The mode of discipline certainly "changed". The Law was a covenant between God and Israel; if this same covenant has been continued after the death and resurrection of Christ, which parts have stayed and which parts haven't?

I agree that because we have no temple so there is 50%(my own estimate) of the Instuction (Law) right there that we don't do....And being that we do not Live in Israel, then another say 10% is needless at the moment...And me being a Woman and not a Man changes some of my obligations too (May be as much as 20%). But that still leaves SOMETHING I can, do as a child that ABBA loves, He would love to see me do it... AND of the 20% left in his Instuction, I am guessing that I naturally do 15% already; so the way I look at it there is really very little instruction missing in my life... BUT what is missing is still His will for me, and hasn't been Abolished, and it is up to me to find out what that is, learn about it, and begin to walk in it as a child of the King....

What is "missing", and by that I mean the sacrificial rituals of the Law, is not in place. You may study those aspects of the Law and apply them to your life, but we have already agreed that they do not grant salvation. Again, I emphasize that only bad people (sinful people) need laws; once the general resurrection and the judgment have been fulfilled, there will be no need for certain aspects of the Law.

The Hebrew word for "Good Works" is "Mitzvot" which means obedient acts toward the Torah(Instruction/Law).

Walking out His Word, fulfilling His Word; will light up the whole World.

We agree, although it should be noted that the Law was not complete, that is, it was not perfect. It was suited to an imperfect world, a tutor to the unworthy. In the same chapter where Jesus says that he has come to uphold the Law, he also states: "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."

Elsewhere Jesus says that this happened because "the Israelites' hearts were hard", and that it was not this way from the beginning. He says that a man and a woman should not be divorced except in the case of adultery, for "what God has joined together, let man not separate".

 

[Gwenyfur]

hey I got a forest and trees

I have a wood pile that needs replenishing HEHEHEHEHEE

 

[Gwenyfur]

The Tree is the tree of life, the tree that Christ was hung from on the cross. That is the tree that gentiles were grafted onto. There IS NO LONGER any difference between Jew and Greek (gentile).

Colossians 3:11-12
And in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, or between the barbarian and Scythian, slave and free. There is only Christ: He is everything and He is in everything. As the chose of God, then, the holy people whom he loves, you are to be clothed in heartfelt compassion, in generosity, and humility, gentleness, and patience.
Galatians 3:28-29
There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a Chosen race, a kingdom of priests, a holy nation, a people to a personal possession to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

From Matthew 8:8-12
The centurion replied, "Sir, I am not worhty to have youunder my roof; just give the word and my servant will be cured.
For I am under authority myself and have soldiers under me; and I say to one man "go," and he goes; to another "come here," and he comes; to my servant, "do this," and he does it.
When Jeus heard this he was astonished and said to those following Him, "in truth I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found faith as great as this.
And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacomb at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven.
But the children of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

As as we see from the master Himself, many gentiles from east and west will come into the Kingdom of Heaven. For as Galatians 3:28-29 tells us, if you are Christ's then you are an heir to Abraham. Equally so the master tells us that the children of the Kingdom, the Jews, will be thrown out into the darkness (hell) because they are not Christ's and if you do not belong to Christ then you are not Abraham's heir. There is ONE WAY for any man, Jew or Gentile, to be saved. That is to take up your cross and follow after Christ.

Now as we have so many here that do not understand the work of Christ and labor under the delusion the being an ethnic Jew matters we need further critical thinking. The state of Israel is largely comprised of Khazars, which are not ethnic Jews. The Shepardic Jews are the only people that can cliam vaild decent from Abraham. A rather small minority group even within Israel. The Arabic peoples in reality are much closer in decent to the Shepardic Jews than the Khazars are.

At the end of the day Israel is just another secular state.

When Paul was speaking "neither Jew nor Greek" He was referring to the judaeic practise of having genitles convert to judaeism before they could be saved by the Gospel of the Christ, Y'shua. Yes, I agree that gentiles will sit at the wedding feast with the L-rd in heaven.

As for most jews being Khazars...that is just false. The DNA testing that's been applied widely has proven there are several lines of jewish decendants still intact. Not just Shepardic. Try Blood of Israel for some "light" reading and information. I'm sure it's available at amazon.com

Shalom

 

[OnTheWay]

When Paul was speaking "neither Jew nor Greek" He was referring to the judaeic practise of having genitles convert to judaeism before they could be saved by the Gospel of the Christ, Y'shua. Yes, I agree that gentiles will sit at the wedding feast with the L-rd in heaven.

Sorry, but I will take the word of the Apostle St. Paul and the early Church fathers over someone like you that is seriously confused as to whether they are Jew or a Christian. Your interptation makes no sense in light of what St. Paul says in Galatians 3:28-29:
There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
It is quite clear that St. Paul is not referring to conversion to Judaism, but he is informing the former Jews within the Christian Church that is no place for Jews and a place for gentiles. There is only those who are Christ's and those who are not Christ's. Christianity is the catholic faith for all men.
As you are not free to accept what you like and reject what you do not like in Scripture it is clear from the master's own teachings, those that take up their cross and follow after Christ will sit down in the kingdom and thost that do not will be thrown out be they Jewish or not.

As for most jews being Khazars...that is just false. The DNA testing that's been applied widely has proven there are several lines of jewish decendants still intact. Not just Shepardic. Try Blood of Israel for some "light" reading and information. I'm sure it's available at amazon.com

That's simply not reflective of what we know today. The fact of the matter is intermarriage continues to make ethnic Jews a virutally non-existant people. In pre-National Socialist Germany 3 out of 5 adult Jewish women were married to German men. Nor does it change the fact the largest group of Jews are Khazars and have NO blood ties to Semitic peoples at all.