Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[Gwenyfur]

Sorry, but I will take the word of the Apostle St. Paul and the early Church fathers over someone like you that is seriously confused as to whether they are Jew or a Christian. Your interptation makes no sense in light of what St. Paul says in Galatians 3:28-29:
There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.
It is quite clear that St. Paul is not referring to conversion to Judaism, but he is informing the former Jews within the Christian Church that is no place for Jews and a place for gentiles. There is only those who are Christ's and those who are not Christ's. Christianity is the catholic faith for all men.
As you are not free to accept what you like and reject what you do not like in Scripture it is clear from the master's own teachings, those that take up their cross and follow after Christ will sit down in the kingdom and thost that do not will be thrown out be they Jewish or not.




That's simply not reflective of what we know today. The fact of the matter is intermarriage continues to make ethnic Jews a virutally non-existant people. In pre-National Socialist Germany 3 out of 5 adult Jewish women were married to German men. Nor does it change the fact the largest group of Jews are Khazars and have NO blood ties to Semitic peoples at all.

It is possible to be ethnically Jewish and a Christian at the same time.

That's why there are "Messianic" Jews

 

[OnTheWay]

It is possible to be ethnically Jewish and a Christian at the same time.

That's why there are "Messianic" Jews

That's not what a "messianic" Jew is, so now you are simply trying to cover for falsehood by diverting attention for your original statements. What you are attempting to do is forward the false teaching that is dispensationalism. Another teaching by the Master, our Lord Jesus Christ, that destorys the notion of dispensationalism:

Matthew 21:33-43:
Listen to another parable. There was a man, a landowner, who planted a vineyard; he fenced it round, dug a winepress in it and built a tower; then he leased it to tenants and went abroad.
When the vintage time drew near he sent his servant to the tenants to collect his produce.
But the tenants seized his servants, thrashed one, killed another, and stoned a third.
New he sent some more servants, this time a larger number, and they dealt with them in the same way.
Finally he sent his son to them thinking, "they will respect my son."
But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, "this is the heir, come on, let us kill him and take over his inheritance."
So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?
They answered, "he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and lease the vineyard to other tenants who will deliever the produce to him at the proper time.
Jesus said to them, "have you never read in the Scriptures:
The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone, this is the Lord's doing and we marvel at it?
I tell you, then, that the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

The vineyard owner is God and the tenants are the Jews. The servants are the prophets that God sent to the Jews before he sent his Son Jesus Christ. The new tenants to whom the vineyard is given are those that accept Christ. This dispensationalism nonsense you preach is both a false teaching and is unfounded in Scripture. The old tenants have been thrown out and the vineyard has been given to the faithful.

 

[Gwenyfur]

That's not what a "messianic" Jew is, so now you are simply trying to cover for falsehood by diverting attention for your original statements. What you are attempting to do is forward the false teaching that is dispensationalism.

We apparantly are going to have to agree to disagree on these subjects...since you obviously have more pride in your secular knowledge than a want to learn the truth of the word of G-d.

I cover no falsehood, I am not confused or misguided. I know who and what I am, I know who my Savior is, and I know Messiah is coming again to collect His children of the church, and His people who turn to Him.

 

[GraceInHim]

We apparantly are going to have to agree to disagree on these subjects...since you obviously have more pride in your secular knowledge than a want to learn the truth of the word of G-d.

I cover no falsehood, I am not confused or misguided. I know who and what I am, I know who my Savior is, and I know Messiah is coming again to collect His children of the church, and His people who turn to Him.

amen on that sister

 

[Oblio]

Messiah is coming again to collect His children of the church, and His people who turn to Him.

There is no difference between the two.

 

[jgonz]

We apparantly are going to have to agree to disagree on these subjects...since you obviously have more pride in your secular knowledge than a want to learn the truth of the word of G-d.

I cover no falsehood, I am not confused or misguided. I know who and what I am, I know who my Savior is, and I know Messiah is coming again to collect His children of the church, and His people who turn to Him.

Another big !

 

[Gwenyfur]

There is no difference between the two.

 

[Oblio]

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:26-29 KJVA)

Not coincidently the Epistle read at the rite of Baptism into the Holy Church.

 

[Gwenyfur]

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:26-29 KJVA)

Not coincidently the Epistle read at the rite of Baptism into the Holy Church.

only comment:

nothing in this world is "holy"...not any church...

ONLY G-d is Holy

 

[Oblio]

nothing in this world is "holy"...not any church...

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(Acts 3:21 KJVA)

There are more.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(1 Peter 2:5-9 KJVA)

 

[GraceInHim]

hey friends.. Jesus movie just started TBN

 

[Gwenyfur]

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(Acts 3:21 KJVA)

There are more.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(1 Peter 2:5-9 KJVA)

ah yes...but to be holy, we must be perfect, without sin, sinless, blameless,....

are any of us???

I'm certainly not...which is why I needed His grace to save my miserable sinful soul

 

[Oblio]

I agree, none of us is without sin. I was talking about the Church, not individuals.

One is holy, one is the Lord Jesus Christ, to the Glory of God the Father, AMIN

 

[Gwenyfur]

I agree, none of us is without sin. I was talking about the Church, not individuals.

One is holy, one is the Lord Jesus Christ, to the Glory of God the Father, AMIN

okay...

the church is made up of human people, led by human people, and traditions formed by human people...no matter the denomination of the church....the church is made up of humans....

humans by nature who are flawed with a sin nature, and after salvation that sin nature still struggles to maintain it's hold on that human....as Paul said, we battle the flesh...we must learn to say no to the flesh...

so if the church is filled with, led by and traditions formed by men...how can it be a holy (sinless and blamess) entity of itself?

 

[Oblio]

so if the church is filled with, led by and traditions formed by men...how can it be a holy (sinless and blamess) entity of itself?

False premise. It is led by Tradition that is the word of God. The Church is the Body of Christ, obedient to it's head. Individuals can and certainly do err, but the Church, led by the Holy Spirit, bestowed upon it at Pentecost, does not.

 

[Gwenyfur]

False premise. It is led by Tradition that is the word of God. The Church is the Body of Christ, obedient to it's head. Individuals can and certainly do err, but the Church, led by the Holy Spirit, bestowed upon it at Pentecost, does not.

I completely disagree with you on this point.

And in lieu of yet another bout of "heated" debate...I wish you peace my brother

Shalom

 

[GraceInHim]

sorry watching the a movie on Jesus and had to put this in

"And you will all be hated and persecuted for my name-sake" Jesus said...

wonder who, what people have been persecuted more than anyone?

Also Jesus said "How many times have I wanted to pick up my children as a bird with the wings, but you would not let me" and he said "I have come to heal the people, cure the blind, I have come for the sinners not the righteous" Gee-- who did he speak to at that moment??

 

[OnTheWay]

We apparantly are going to have to agree to disagree on these subjects...since you obviously have more pride in your secular knowledge than a want to learn the truth of the word of G-d.

Not really, you can cease the discussion because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but that is not any sort of agreement. I have no pride, what I do have is a good knowledge of Scripture and so should any Christian. The fact that you believe things that clearly don't line up with what Christ taught doesn't mean you stick you head in the sand, it means you reconsider what you believe.
Knowledge of the Holy Scripture is not "secular." The Church, Israel, is Holy Scripture guided by Holy Tradition. To know these things is to be part of the Church which is the body of Christ.

I cover no falsehood, I am not confused or misguided. I know who and what I am, I know who my Savior is, and I know Messiah is coming again to collect His children of the church, and His people who turn to Him.

There is no difference between the Church and the people of God. You have attempted to cover the falsehoods that you have put forth. First by assigning an asinine interptation of St. Paul's letters and you do so now while claiming to have "the truth of God's word" when your point of view is clearly false in light of the teachings of Jesus Christ, who is the source of all truth. Your position is so weak you couldn't even attempt to address the passages I cited. By all means you may continue in error, I have shown the Scripture and the rest is done by God. To seek truth you must first desire it and clearly you do not. Go peace, may you find desire given by the Holy Spirit to be taken out of your error.

 

[OnTheWay]

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(Acts 3:21 KJVA)

There are more.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(1 Peter 2:5-9 KJVA)

It would appear with this ilk that Scripture doesn't mean much of anything. At any rate as the little box says, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Oblio again."

 

[OnTheWay]

sorry watching the a movie on Jesus and had to put this in

"And you will all be hated and persecuted for my name-sake" Jesus said...

As a Jew rejects Christ no follower of Judaism has never been hated or persecuted for faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

wonder who, what people have been persecuted more than anyone?

Christians.

Also Jesus said "How many times have I wanted to pick up my children as a bird with the wings, but you would not let me" and he said "I have come to heal the people, cure the blind, I have come for the sinners not the righteous" Gee-- who did he speak to at that moment??

And this has what to do with the topic?