Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Philip_B]

Hamas controls the humanitarian aid.

I believe that is the agency UNRWA.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East is a UN agency that supports the relief and human development of Palestinian refugees.
UNRWA - Wikipedia​

 

[Valletta]

It does not.

I

I believe that is the agency UNRWA.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East is a UN agency that supports the relief and human development of Palestinian refugees.​

UNRWA - Wikipedia​

So the claim is that the people are starving and UNRWA controls the humanitarian aid.

 

[Philip_B]

I

So the claim is that the people are starving and UNRWA controls the humanitarian aid.

However, they rely on the aid being accessible, and that has to do with the aid corridor. Palestine has no sovereignty, and indeed any offer of self-government for Palestine has excluded sovereignty. Several things have been excluded from their ambit, including borders.

 

[Valletta]

However, they rely on the aid being accessible, and that has to do with the aid corridor. Palestine has no sovereignty, and indeed any offer of self-government for Palestine has excluded sovereignty. Several things have been excluded from their ambit, including borders.

You don't believe Hamas is stealing any aid? Do they wait in the back of lines like everyone else?

 

[Philip_B]

You don't believe Hamas is stealing any aid? Do they wait in the back of lines like everyone else?

Probably

 

[Valletta]

Probably

That's just the kind of guys they are I suppose.

 

[Philip_B]

That's just the kind of guys they are I suppose.

I am not sure of the relevance. Aid delivery and distribution generally have problematic side stories anywhere in the world.

 

[truthpls]

You don't believe Hamas is stealing any aid? Do they wait in the back of lines like everyone else?

With people being shot trying to get flour etc maybe Hamas is smart enough not to get in line?

 

[Valletta]

With people being shot trying to get flour etc maybe Hamas is smart enough not to get in line?

They could be busy doing the shooting.

 

[truthpls]

They could be busy doing the shooting.

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www.cnn.com

"Israel confirmed its forces fired on people, saying crowds had threatened their troops, but disputed the account given by the ministry."

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www.cnn.com

Starving people 'threatened' their armed troops? Not so believable.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Visualizing Gaza’s aid shortage as ‘man-made’ famine looms​

Israel maintains that it does not restrict aid, but aid organizations and governments, including that of the United States, have applied mounting pressure on it to facilitate the flow of trucks, and have undertaken elaborate plans to deliver aid by air and sea — methods that are far less efficient than by land.

Up to half of Gaza’s population faces starvation between now and July, according to recent estimates by global emergency experts. “This is an entirely man-made disaster,” United Nations Secretary General António Guterres said this month.

 

[Valletta]

Loading…

www.cnn.com

"Israel confirmed its forces fired on people, saying crowds had threatened their troops, but disputed the account given by the ministry."

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www.cnn.com

Starving people 'threatened' their armed troops? Not so believable.

When attacked Israeli troops will respond.

 

[truthpls]

When attacked Israeli troops will respond.

Mowing down starving people trying to get rations is not a good response. Listening to some folks defending the terror of Israel, and calling it 'hatred' of Jews if anyone doesn't like it is disgusting. Being abhorred by wickedness and mass murder is hating evil and murder, not the particular group that is acting like nazis.

 

[Valletta]

Mowing down starving people trying to get rations is not a good response. Listening to some folks defending the terror of Israel, and calling it 'hatred' of Jews if anyone doesn't like it is disgusting. Being abhorred by wickedness and mass murder is hating evil and murder, not the particular group that is acting like nazis.

Remember that over 70% of Palestinians in a poll admitted they approved of the massacre that took place--the torture, the rape, and the butchery of babies. So it is not a surprise when some attack Israeli troops. Believe you me, those kids pressed into the service of Israel want to rescue the hostages, finish Hamas, and go home. Using ammunition on someone other than Hamas in the middle of a war would be foolish even for someone with a mindset like the jihadists. In the case of Israel it is hard to imagine another country, certainly not any of the countries surrounding Israel, that would take such care to avoid killing civilians if the situation reversed.

 

[JosephZ]

Remember that over 70% of Palestinians in a poll admitted they approved of the massacre that took place--the torture, the rape, and the butchery of babies.

The reason for the high percentage of Palestinians supporting the October 7th attack is not because they approve of the atrocities that took place; it's because of the attention it brought to their plight.

Some added context to the poll:

While support for Hamas’ offensive on October the 7th remains as high as it was three months ago, Palestinian support in the West Bank has in fact dropped by 11 points while, surprisingly, support in the Gaza Strip has increased by 14 points. It is clear from the findings however, that support for the offensive does not mean support for Hamas. Instead, the findings show that three quarters of the Palestinians believe that the offensive has put the Palestinian-Israeli issue at the center of attention after years of neglect at the regional and international levels.

...more than 90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas. Only one fifth of those who did not see the videos had access to such videos but decided not to see them; the rest report that the media they watched did not show these videos. The findings show that those who have seen the videos are almost 10 times more likely to think that Hamas men have committed atrocities on October 7.

Public Opinion Poll No (91) | PCPSR

www.pcpsr.org

 

[JosephZ]

Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza

Approval has dropped from 50% to 36% since November

After narrowly backing Israel’s military action in Gaza in November, Americans now oppose the campaign by a solid margin. Fifty-five percent currently disapprove of Israel’s actions, while 36% approve.

All three major party groups in the U.S. have become less supportive of Israel’s actions in Gaza than they were in November. This includes declines of 18 percentage points in approval among both Democrats and independents and a seven-point decline among Republicans.

Independents have shifted from being divided in their views of the Israeli military action to opposing it. Democrats, who were already largely opposed in November, are even more so now, with 18% approving and 75% disapproving.

Republicans still support Israel’s military efforts, but a reduced majority -- 64%, down from 71% -- now approve.

Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza

A majority of U.S. adults now disapprove of Israel's military action in Gaza, a shift from the prior survey in November.

news.gallup.com

 

[Vanellus]

Visualizing Gaza’s aid shortage as ‘man-made’ famine looms​

Israel maintains that it does not restrict aid, but aid organizations and governments, including that of the United States, have applied mounting pressure on it to facilitate the flow of trucks, and have undertaken elaborate plans to deliver aid by air and sea — methods that are far less efficient than by land.

Up to half of Gaza’s population faces starvation between now and July, according to recent estimates by global emergency experts. “This is an entirely man-made disaster,” United Nations Secretary General António Guterres said this month.

View attachment 344787

Some hold ups are caused by Israeli settlers.
Kerem Shalom crossing: Israeli protesters hold up aid trucks to Gaza

 

[Valletta]

The reason for the high percentage of Palestinians supporting the October 7th attack is not because they approve of the atrocities that took place; it's because of the attention it brought to their plight.

Some added context to the poll:

While support for Hamas’ offensive on October the 7th remains as high as it was three months ago, Palestinian support in the West Bank has in fact dropped by 11 points while, surprisingly, support in the Gaza Strip has increased by 14 points. It is clear from the findings however, that support for the offensive does not mean support for Hamas. Instead, the findings show that three quarters of the Palestinians believe that the offensive has put the Palestinian-Israeli issue at the center of attention after years of neglect at the regional and international levels.

...more than 90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas. Only one fifth of those who did not see the videos had access to such videos but decided not to see them; the rest report that the media they watched did not show these videos. The findings show that those who have seen the videos are almost 10 times more likely to think that Hamas men have committed atrocities on October 7.

Public Opinion Poll No (91) | PCPSR

www.pcpsr.org

They are really sick and twisted to support such a massacre, with or without seeing videos. I have known a number of people who have lived in far worse conditions then those in Gaza who would never even dream of supporting a civilian massacre.

 

[Vanellus]

You may have thought bulldozers were used to bulldoze Palestinian homes in the early hours, but the IDF have found another use - shovelling the dead bodies of people waving white flags they have shot dead into shallow graves:
'Horrifying' Footage Shows IDF Killing Two Gazans, Burying Their Bodies With a Bulldozer

Video footage broadcast Wednesday by Al Jazeera shows Israeli soldiers gunning down two Palestinians on the coast of northern Gaza, even as one of them waves what appears to be a piece of white fabric.

The footage shows one of the men walking in the direction of an Israeli military vehicle with both hands raised. Despite the absence of any clear evidence that the man posed a threat, Israeli forces shot him from a short distance away. Another man is seen on the ground not far behind.

Al Jazeera's Tareq Abu Azzoum said the killings took place near where World Central Kitchen recently dropped off food aid.
"Probably certain words should be invented for this sort of thing," Marwan Bishara, AI Jazeera's chief political analyst, said in response to the footage. "I am not sure we have the sufficient vocabulary to describe this sort of twilight zone of Israel's fantasy of being the world's most moral army."

"It's a fantasy that meets the reality of a genocide," Bishara added. "An attempt to kill or destroy much of Palestine and Palestinians and hide the evidence and lie about it. When the Israeli army can do these things and get away with it, it can only then do more of it knowing that it will not meet any punishment."

 

[essentialsaltes]

You may have thought bulldozers were used to bulldoze Palestinian homes in the early hours, but the IDF have found another use - shovelling the dead bodies of people waving white flags they have shot dead into shallow graves:
'Horrifying' Footage Shows IDF Killing Two Gazans, Burying Their Bodies With a Bulldozer

It's been just over 20 years since Rachel Corrie was crushed to death in Rafah by an armored bulldozer.