Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Philip_B]

Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction — yet world media and leaders like Joe Biden still use them to smear Israel​

Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction — yet world media and leaders like Joe Biden still use them to smear Israel

Basic statistical analysis shows the Hamas-run Gaza healthy ministry is simply making up its death-toll numbers, yet world media and politicians like Joe Biden still rely on the stats.

nypost.com

I am not sure that the New York Post is any more credible than the Gaza Health Ministry. Both organisations might be said to have a clear bias. I am not sure why you perceive Biden as smearing Israel, given that the Government he leads has provided significant financial support to the Israeli Defence Force over a long period. The real difficulty is that the people who are at the receiving end of this are real human beings.

The Palestinian Cause was not considered in the rise of Zionism. The Balfour Declaration did not consider the Palestinian people. UN Security Council Resolution 242 does not even mention them. The West (specifically the UK, the US, and even Australia and others) has tried to ignore them assuming it would resolve itself. That has been a catastrophic failure, and allowing Israel to engage in an action that seems to be a 'final solution' in the manner of the 2nd World War will also not fix it. Without Justice, there is no peace.

 

[Valletta]

I am not sure that the New York Post is any more credible than the Gaza Health Ministry.

The old "shoot the messenger." Certainly the New York Post is not as biased as the New York Times. So you are saying that the New York Post falsely reported the daily death tolls? What do you claim are the correct numbers?

 

[DaisyDay]

Over 70 Percent of Palestinians Support Hamas’s October 7 Terror Attack: Poll​

Over 70 Percent of Palestinians Support Hamas’s October 7 Terror Attack: Poll | National Review

Ninety-one percent of Palestinians say Hamas has not committed war crimes and 75 percent are satisfied with Hamas’s current role ruling the Gaza Strip.

www.nationalreview.com

People need to understand the minds of the Palestinians.

And you think an article in an American magazine is going to do it? Polling a people under siege, a people currently without homes, food, a place to pee and poop, a people whose children are having their arms and legs blown off on a daily basis may be useful to someone but the arrogance of thinking that this will explain why genocide is justified is beyond comprehension.

 

[DaisyDay]

Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction — yet world media and leaders like Joe Biden still use them to smear Israel​

Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction — yet world media and leaders like Joe Biden still use them to smear Israel

Basic statistical analysis shows the Hamas-run Gaza healthy ministry is simply making up its death-toll numbers, yet world media and politicians like Joe Biden still rely on the stats.

nypost.com

Good heavens! The fog of war shrouds exact numbers but we all can see the devastation. Food has been extremely scarce in Gaza while trucks remain blocked by Israel at the borders. We have seen the footage of starving people shot down on the streets like dogs.

 

[Valletta]

Good heavens! The fog of war shrouds exact numbers but we all can see the devastation. Food has been extremely scarce in Gaza while trucks remain blocked by Israel at the borders. We have seen the footage of starving people shot down on the streets like dogs.

We have seen what Hamas has done, the butchery, the savagery, the delight of Hamas and their supporters to murder innocents, even babies. And in the poll 71% of Palestinians admitted they approved of such butchery. Just think how many of them knew the tunnels were being built, and yet they pleaded and begged for humanitarian supplies. It's a problem, Israel does not have the capability to protect all of the civilians. And yes Hamas will continue to shoot down civilians and deprive them of food and water (unless they pay exorbitant prices) until Hamas is totally defeated.

 

[DaisyDay]

We have seen what Hamas has done, the butchery, the savagery, the delight of Hamas and their supporters to murder innocents, even babies. And in the poll 71% of Palestinians admitted they approved of such butchery. Just think how many of them knew the tunnels were being built, and yet they pleaded and begged for humanitarian supplies. It's a problem, Israel does not have the capability to protect all of the civilians. And yes Hamas will continue to shoot down civilians and deprive them of food and water (unless they pay exorbitant prices) until Hamas is totally defeated.

More Palestinians, according to your article, approve of Hamas NOW that they have undergone a literal decimation, devastation and starvation than did in October. Asking people currently undergoing an ethnic cleansing how they "feel" about their oppressors and about how they feel about anti-oppression and you will undoubtedly get a radicalized view. To then go, well look at that - we just gotta kill them all now because their babies might grow up (that part is now iffy) to be "terrorists".

When an entire people is systematically demonized, you know it's war propaganda.

Are you opposed to butchery or is it allowed, even praised, depending on circumstance? Hamas did attack and murder over a thousand Israelis. Now tens of thousands of babies, toddlers, children, teenagers - whoever is left - are being butchered.

 

[Philip_B]

The old "shoot the messenger." Certainly the New York Post is not as biased as the New York Times. So you are saying that the New York Post falsely reported the daily death tolls? What do you claim are the correct numbers?

That was not my intent, but thank you for pointing out that most of our news services in the West have forgotten what objective means,

 

[Valletta]

An agreement, if it happens, is expected to have multiple phases. In the first stage, Hamas has proposed releasing the hostages who are women – including Israeli soldiers – elderly, sick and wounded. That number is believed to be roughly 40 out of the around 100 hostages who remain alive.

Israel agrees to prisoner-hostage exchange and is awaiting Hamas’ response, CNN affiliate and analyst say

Israel agreed to a US proposal on a prisoner-hostage exchange that would release around 700 Palestinian prisoners, among them 100 serving life sentences for killing Israeli nationals, in exchange for the release of 40 Israeli hostages, CNN affiliate Kan News reported Sunday, citing a senior...

www.yahoo.com

Palestinians should urge Hamas to take the deal.

 

[Valletta]

That was not my intent, but thank you for pointing out that most of our news services in the West have forgotten what objective means,

You're welcome. A lot of people don't know the extent of the antisemitism at the NY Times and their antisemitic history. Here's a good article from the New York Times on their 150th anniversary:
150th Anniversary: 1851-2001; Turning Away From the Holocaust (Published 2001)

 

[Philip_B]

You're welcome. A lot of people don't know the extent of the antisemitism at the NY Times and their antisemitic history. Here's a good article from the New York Times on their 150th anniversary:
150th Anniversary: 1851-2001; Turning Away From the Holocaust (Published 2001)

Clearly whatever it is is not available to me without a subscription. When you speak of antisemitism, do you mean anti-Jewish, anti-Palestinian, or anti-(some other Semitic group)? The term Semite refers to the children of Shem and includes a large chunk of the populations of which we speak.

 

[Valletta]

Clearly whatever it is is not available to me without a subscription. When you speak of antisemitism, do you mean anti-Jewish, anti-Palestinian, or anti-(some other Semitic group)? The term Semite refers to the children of Shem and includes a large chunk of the populations of which we speak.

What do you think? Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians? The New Times has been anti-Jewish, pro-Nazi, pro-Muslim.

In midst of apology for one anti-Semitic cartoon, ‘New York Times’ publishes yet another​

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www.jns.org

 

[Tinker Grey]

What do you think? Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians? The New Times has been anti-Jewish, pro-Nazi, pro-Muslim.

In midst of apology for one anti-Semitic cartoon, ‘New York Times’ publishes yet another​

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www.jns.org

Criticizing Israel or BB is not antisemitic.

 

[JosephZ]

UN Security Council For First Time Demands 'Immediate' Gaza Ceasefire, US Abstains

The resolution, which demands an "immediate ceasefire" for the ongoing Muslim holy month of Ramadan that leads to a "lasting" truce, went through, with all other 14 Security Council members voting yes.

 

[Philip_B]

What do you think? Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians? The New Times has been anti-Jewish, pro-Nazi, pro-Muslim.

In midst of apology for one anti-Semitic cartoon, ‘New York Times’ publishes yet another​

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www.jns.org

Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians?​

​

I think you need to do a little more research on this subject. May I suggest Origin of the Palestinians - Wikipedia as a good place to start,

Meaning of the word "Palestinian"​

The term Palestinian has had two different meanings.​

​

Before 1948, the term "Palestinian" applied to people from Palestine, including Jews.​

​

In contemporary usage, particularly since the creation of Israel on most of the territory of Mandatory Palestine in 1948 and the expulsion or flight of most Muslim and Christian Palestinians from that land, the terms "Palestinians" and "Palestinian people" are usually used to refer to the Levantine Arab (i.e. native Arabic- and historically Aramaic-speaking) people descended from the people who have lived in historic Palestine over the millennia with the admixture of immigrants over that period. This contemporary usage thus often implicitly excludes Palestinian Jews when describing ethnoreligious groups before 1948.​

​

I am not anti-Jewish. I am not anti-Palestinian. The current carnage is not a solution that speaks of justice and leads to peace. The humanity we deny when taking the lives of others is our own.

 

[Valletta]

Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians?​

​

I think you need to do a little more research on this subject. May I suggest Origin of the Palestinians - Wikipedia as a good place to start,

Meaning of the word "Palestinian"​

The term Palestinian has had two different meanings.​

​

Before 1948, the term "Palestinian" applied to people from Palestine, including Jews.​

​

In contemporary usage, particularly since the creation of Israel on most of the territory of Mandatory Palestine in 1948 and the expulsion or flight of most Muslim and Christian Palestinians from that land, the terms "Palestinians" and "Palestinian people" are usually used to refer to the Levantine Arab (i.e. native Arabic- and historically Aramaic-speaking) people descended from the people who have lived in historic Palestine over the millennia with the admixture of immigrants over that period. This contemporary usage thus often implicitly excludes Palestinian Jews when describing ethnoreligious groups before 1948.​

​

I am not anti-Jewish. I am not anti-Palestinian. The current carnage is not a solution that speaks of justice and leads to peace. The humanity we deny when taking the lives of others is our own.

Don't do your research on Wikipedia. As I have pointed out so many times, Wikipedia is not a good source for anything that has controversy or differences of opinion. That's because anyone, even anonymous people, can write whatever they wish. It's great for geography or if you wish to find out when someone was born.

 

[essentialsaltes]

UN Security Council For First Time Demands 'Immediate' Gaza Ceasefire, US Abstains

The resolution, which demands an "immediate ceasefire" for the ongoing Muslim holy month of Ramadan that leads to a "lasting" truce, went through, with all other 14 Security Council members voting yes.

Israel cancels Washington visit after US doesn't veto UN Gaza ceasefire resolution​

Israeli Foreign Minister Israel Katz said on X his country would not abide by the resolution.

“The state of Israel will not cease fire,” Katz said.

A visit canceled​

Israel’s national security adviser Tzachi Hanegbi and Ron Dermer, a member of the war cabinet and close adviser to Netanyahu, had been scheduled to travel to Washington on Monday night to discuss the offensive and US alternatives, but the visit was canceled after the vote.

 

[Philip_B]

Don't do your research on Wikipedia. As I have pointed out so many times, Wikipedia is not a good source for anything that has controversy or differences of opinion. That's because anyone, even anonymous people, can write whatever they wish. It's great for geography or if you wish to find out when someone was born.

I am sorry, however, the article I referenced and referred you to represents a much more balanced and considered view of the origins of the Palestinian people than your bold and inadequate assertion, which was:

Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians?​

​

This assertion is largely not historical, accurate, or helpful.

On Wikipedia, not all articles are of the same value, and it does not take long to evaluate that. Certainly, if the things are more value-laden and contentious, that may be of more import. The origins of the Palestinian people ought not to be such an issue. It is essentially the story (history) of how they came to be. And incidentally, I have read on the subject more widely than Wikipedia, and that in includes both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine books. The advantage Wikipedia has is that it is generally accessible, unlike the article you shared earlier which was not available to me.

 

[Valletta]

I am sorry, however, the article I referenced and referred you to represents a much more balanced and considered view of the origins of the Palestinian people than your bold and inadequate assertion, which was:

Did you know the Palestinians are really the Jews, Arafat and crew co-opted the name, the slave name of the Jews under the Romans, Philistines, morphed into Palestinians?​

​

This assertion is largely not historical, accurate, or helpful.

On Wikipedia, not all articles are of the same value, and it does not take long to evaluate that. Certainly, if the things are more value-laden and contentious, that may be of more import. The origins of the Palestinian people ought not to be such an issue. It is essentially the story (history) of how they came to be. And incidentally, I have read on the subject more widely than Wikipedia, and that in includes both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine books. The advantage Wikipedia has is that it is generally accessible, unlike the article you shared earlier which was not available to me.

You appear to be confusing the origin of the people you call Palestinians with the history of the word, which came about when the Romans renamed Judea to mock the Jews.

 

[Philip_B]

You appear to be confusing the origin of the people you call Palestinians with the history of the word, which came about when the Romans renamed Judea to mock the Jews.

Not especially. You seem to be suggesting that these people are to be ignored out of existence.

 

[JosephZ]

An agreement, if it happens, is expected to have multiple phases. In the first stage, Hamas has proposed releasing the hostages who are women – including Israeli soldiers – elderly, sick and wounded. That number is believed to be roughly 40 out of the around 100 hostages who remain alive.

Israel agrees to prisoner-hostage exchange and is awaiting Hamas’ response, CNN affiliate and analyst say

Israel agreed to a US proposal on a prisoner-hostage exchange that would release around 700 Palestinian prisoners, among them 100 serving life sentences for killing Israeli nationals, in exchange for the release of 40 Israeli hostages, CNN affiliate Kan News reported Sunday, citing a senior...

www.yahoo.com

Palestinians should urge Hamas to take the deal.

It appears Hamas has turned the offer down.

Hamas says it has informed mediators that the terror group will stick to its original position on reaching a comprehensive ceasefire, which includes the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza, a return of displaced Palestinians and a “real” exchange of prisoners.

The response is because Israel “did not respond to any of the basic demands of our people and our resistance (Hamas): a comprehensive ceasefire, withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, the return of the displaced, and a real exchange of prisoners,” the terror group says in a statement.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-tells-mediators-its-sticking-to-original-position-on-full-ceasefire/