Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

There are reports of far more strikes against the hospital:

Al-Shifa Hospital siege - Wikipedia
Note the claims above have linked references.

But given that the IDF had the hospital surrounded where are all the Hamas that would have been in the alleged huge Hamas central command complex. Were they there when the hospital was being attacked?

I've also seen a report that the IDF took out the al Shifa oxygen concentrator plant which is for incubators and critically ill patients not Hamas.


Under bombardment, Gaza medics fight to save patients with no power, water or food

The fact that the hospital wasn't leveled is proof that Israel isn't "targeting" civilians. Much of what is claimed is information provided by a terrorist organization. It's quite fascinating you believe them.

 

[rjs330]

It has done that. The prison territory is in ruins, mountains of children were killed etc etc

What prison? Mountains of children?

 

[rjs330]

was not real. To bomb and kill many many thousands of people and torture them with deprivation and relocation etc because some terrorists would not come out of hiding is a ridiculous excuse.

Still no pressure on Hamas. Interesting.

They are also making babies and children die by the thousands. That is protecting someone?? No. Sounds more like the soldiers are dying to kill!

I guess Hamas shouldn't be hiding and fighting behind civilians then and using them as shields. They shouldn't be throwing them in front of the bullets.

is Israel that attacked the population and killed people actually. If some demented terrorists are hiding in the population we would not call the population 'their' civilians. Maybe some were so silly as to think that Israel was civilized and would not attack a highly populated area, I don't know. I doubt that, since they know from history that disproportional collective punishment is the new normal for Israel.

Hamas was Gazas government. So yes the civilians were their people. Israel attacked those areas because that's where Hamas was fighting from. It would be kind of silly and pointless to attack somewhere your enemy isn't. Hamas looks just like every other civilian there and wanted as many civilians to die as possible. It's a propaganda war for them and you are on the side of terrorists.

No. I see that Israel is conducting the even greater terrorism.

What a preposterous statement.

 

[rjs330]

was not real. To bomb and kill many many thousands of people and torture them with deprivation and relocation etc because some terrorists would not come out of hiding is a ridiculous excuse.

Still no pressure on Hamas. Interesting.

They are also making babies and children die by the thousands. That is protecting someone?? No. Sounds more like the soldiers are dying to kill!

I guess Hamas shouldn't be hiding and fighting behind civilians then and using them as shields. They shouldn't be throwing them in front of the bullets.

is Israel that attacked the population and killed people actually. If some demented terrorists are hiding in the population we would not call the population 'their' civilians. Maybe some were so silly as to think that Israel was civilized and would not attack a highly populated area, I don't know. I doubt that, since they know from history that disproportional collective punishment is the new normal for Israel.

Hamas was Gazas government. So yes the civilians were their people. Israel attacked those areas because that's where Hamas was fighting from. It would be kind of silly and pointless to attack somewhere your enemy isn't. Hamas looks just like every other civilian there and wanted as many civilians to die as possible. It's a propaganda war for them and you are on the side of terrorists.

No. I see that Israel is conducting the even greater terrorism.

What a preposterous statement.

No, because Israel is attacking the people not Hamas. They are treating citizens as targets.

No they are are not. There's no such thing as a magic bullet that only targets a terrorists who are hiding and fighting from civilian locations. Did you somehow think think there were?

The bombs fall on civilians, not Hamas.

They fell on Hamas. Hamas put the civilians in the way for propaganda purposes.

The doctors in the hospital did not say Hamas was there. On the contrary.

We've discovered the doctors were lying.

No it makes Hamas cowards IF they were doing what you say. Perhaps when apartments were blown up, Hamas was far away under the ground in tunnels? You do not get to blow up people and pretend it is attacking Hamas.

Of course their cowards. Are just realizing this? That's why they don't wear uniforms and they hide a fight from civilian locations. So they can get civilian shields to die instead of them.
Which is a war crime.

It's interesting you dodged my scenario.

That is not the situation in Gaza. Israel is mass murdering civilians. They have no clue where Hamas is!

It certainly is the situation in Gaza. They sure do know where Hamas is because Hamas is shooting at them.

If a sniper shoots from say, one of the former twin towers, do you blow up the whole tower?

If you are at war and the enemy is there yes you do. You have an odd sense of what war is.

Evidence of what? Israel bombed the people regardless of what anyone thought. The people were not shields! They were target practice!

Evidence their propaganda and tactics are working. The people are shields to take the bullets away from Hamas. Hamas wanted the bullets and shells to hit the people instead of them. Too many foolish people have succumbed to the terrorists psychological warfare.

 

[rjs330]

Doesn't look like the alleged huge Hamas central command complex.

And you know exactly what a Hamas central command complex would look like after they have left it?

 

[JosephZ]

A doctor at the Gaza Strip's Al Shifa hospital said on Friday Israeli forces had "found nothing" during searches of the hospital complex, and that food and water were running out.

Doctor Ahmed El Mokhallalati told Reuters by telephone that despite the "difficult" conditions at the hospital, no babies had died there since Israeli troops entered it on Wednesday.

The Israeli military said on Thursday it had uncovered a Hamas tunnel shaft and a vehicle with weapons at the Al Shifa hospital complex. It also made public videos and photographs to support its statement.

Speaking in English, Mokhallalati said: "They have found nothing. They have found no single resistance. No single gunshot, against them within the hospital area."

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-11-17/doctor-says-israeli-forces-found-nothing-supplies-low-at-gazas-al-shifa-hospital

 

[truthpls]

Yep.


. I’m sure you’re really right unlike those faithless twenty centuries worth of Christian’s who came before you.

So all Christians join the list hated by you, as well as the Palestinians?

 

[JosephZ]

What prison? Mountains of children?

Prison: a state of confinement or captivity

Gaza would certainly fall into the category of being a prison territory.

Mountain: a large quantity of something.

4,500+ dead children would definitely be considered a mountain of children.

 

[truthpls]

Is that what you believe? That God is punishing the modern day secular state of Israel?

Allowing them to go through His wrath. Allowing them to go through severe trials of the Great Tribulation. It is called the time of Jacob's trial. Of course it is largely about the Jewish people, and the state of Israel in particular as well. The only reason they go through that time is so that God can deal with them and get as many as possible to finally repent and believe in the end. Christians are not scheduled to go through that wrath. Neither would any Jewish person if they were believers also.

 

[truthpls]

What prison? Mountains of children?

Gaza. Surrounded by barbed wire and unable to travel freely.

 

[JosephZ]

Israeli ex-PM claims Hamas command centre is in the south of Gaza not al-Shifa Hospital

For the past week, Israeli troops have been raiding the al-Shifa Hospital, the largest medical complex and central hospital north of the strip, with intel, they say, that the command centre is there.

But according to Olmert, "we haven't yet even come to the heart of this operation".

"Khan Younis, which is in the southern part of Gaza Strip, is the real headquarters of Hamas.

"They have the leadership, they are hiding, they have the bunkers, they have the command positions, they have the launching pads."

Israeli ex-PM claims Hamas command centre is in the south of Gaza not al-Shifa Hospital

As Israel intensifies its ground offensive in Gaza, amid serious humanitarian concerns, its former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has told Euronews: "the war must go on" until Israel reaches its endgame: the end of Hamas.

news.yahoo.com

 

[truthpls]

Still no pressure on Hamas. Interesting.

It would be wrong to use Hams and the terrorism they did as a distraction to the murderous horror going on. Israel does not target apartment buildings or hospitals of fleeing convoys or ambulances that has Hamas in them. They use the excuse that there may be some terrorists in there somewhere for the murders.

I guess Hamas shouldn't be hiding and fighting behind civilians then and using them as shields. They shouldn't be throwing them in front of the bullets.

Whatever some people should or should not be doing is not an excuse for collective punishment and the wanton bombings of civilians. Many people simply do not accept your excuse at all.

Hamas was Gazas government. So yes the civilians were their people.

The inmates in charge of the prison do not represent the population at large if they stage a riot or have people whacked etc.

Israel attacked those areas because that's where Hamas was fighting from.

Areas should not be attacked when highly populated, that shows a hatred and disregard for life. Criminals should be targeted, not a population. If that cannot be done then stay home and be quiet.

It would be kind of silly and pointless to attack somewhere your enemy isn't.

As long as they don't mass murder children in their targeted attacks, people probably mostly agree that terrorists should be brought to justice. The leaders of Hamas, some poster claimed a while ago live in Qatar. What are they doing blowing up families in refugee camps in Gaza?

Hamas looks just like every other civilian there and wanted as many civilians to die as possible. It's a propaganda war for them and you are on the side of terrorists.

No, I am not on the side of Israel at all. Not when they attack families. As for the Hamas soldiers, Israel can either find them and deal with them of go home as far as I am concerned.

 

[Vanellus]

What do you expect the IDF to do? The stones could be grenades and IDF do not have the luxury of time to analyze the mental capacity of the boy. They acted rightly in that situation.

They didn't get any where near the soldiers and there were no explosions. I know what the sound of a stone hitting the ground sounds like and I expect the IDF soldiers to know as well.

 

[Desk trauma]

So all Christians join the list hated by you, as well as the Palestinians?

Incorrect.

 

[Vanellus]

It is hard to say right now. There was a Hamas presence in the hospital but perhaps it can be separated from whatever is underneath it and who hides there. No one denies that Hamas is using tunnels and even Al Jazeerah suspects tunnels under this hospital:

You might be surprised to know that al Jazeera presents alternative points of view. This is from someone who is a military journalist who has "reported on" Gaza for several years but seems not to have much in the way of first hand knowledge of Gaza itself. He is giving an opinion about how "armed groups" in general behave but as he says in such a large hospital someone would have noticed something, yet no al Shifa doctor afaik has ever stated that there are tunnels being used as the Hamas central command centre or have seen evidence to suggest this is the case. As I have stated in another post Israel do know of an underground bunker and associated tunnels which Israel built in the 1980s. I believe the IDF will be fitting this out to make it look good for their propaganda. This is not the smoking gun you are purporting it to be.

The Belgrade journalist also gave his opinion that the Israeli bombing campaign does not have a military objective (to destroy Hamas). Rather he stated it was "overkill". We know from internal to Israel statements made by Israeli political leaders the objective is to make north Gaza uninhabitable and to drive the population to the south or into Egypt: ethnic cleansing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

UN Halts Food Delivery To Gaza Amid Communications Blackout​

The communications blackout, now in its second day, largely cuts off Gaza’s 2.3 million people from one another and the outside world — and paralyzes the coordination of aid, which humanitarian groups were already struggling to deliver because of the fuel shortage.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The command center "within and beneath" the hospital (artist's illustration)

 

[wing2000]

Israel’s war cabinet resolved to allow the entry of at least 60,000 liters of fuel to the southern part of the Gaza Strip, in what Israeli officials said was an answer to American requests to permit the transfer of fuel to prevent an urgent collapse of Gazan sewage facilities.
The move is a marked shift in Israeli policy, where for nearly six weeks Israeli leaders refused fuel transfers into the Strip until the nearly 240 hostages held by Palestinian militants were released. Earlier this week, Israel reportedly permitted U.N. trucks to refuel at Egypt’s Rafah crossing into Gaza.
.....
War cabinet minister Benny Gantz, part of the senior political trio managing Israel’s ongoing operation against Hamas in Gaza, said that the decision was for a “one-off transfer” to be completed in the next 48 hours, while Israel’s National Security Council head said that Israel would permit two fuel trucks a day to enter Gaza, without specifying a time period.

“This one-off transfer was approved at the request of international parties for the purpose of operating [water] desalination and sewage facilities, and for additional needs by organizations operating in the southern Gaza Strip,” Gantz wrote in a Friday statement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/17/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-palestine/#link-IVPOTWJSDBHRXO3JGWIRL5NFTU

 

[rjs330]

Prison: a state of confinement or captivity

Gaza would certainly fall into the category of being a prison territory.

Mountain: a large quantity of something.

4,500+ dead children would definitely be considered a mountain of children.

Gaza was ruled by Hamas. Did they make it a prison? I wasn't aware of that.

Where did you get the 4500 dead children from?

 

[rjs330]

Gaza. Surrounded by barbed wire and unable to travel freely.

People couldn't travel around Gaza freely? You know there hasn't been any of those dirty Jew terrorists in Gaza for a long time now.