Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

As I understand it, they're safe as long as they stay in Israel (or the US or other non-member states).

If they visit ICC member states, those states have an obligation to arrest them. Even then, weaker countries may quail at arresting leaders of powerful countries, as when Putin visited Mongolia in September.

And some countries will overtly flout their commitments to the iCC. Though honestly, if I were Bibi, I would have some doubts about visiting Hungary when fascists are in power.

Orban invites Netanyahu to Hungary as ICC warrant divides Europeans​

All EU countries are members of the court, which means they are supposed to enforce its warrants.

But the diverging reactions - and the fact that EU heavyweights Germany and France have not said if they would arrest Netanyahu - highlight the major diplomatic and political challenge posed by the ICC decision, which drew swift condemnation from Israeli leaders and the White House.

The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Finland, Portugal, Slovenia and Ireland, are among EU states that have said they would meet their ICC commitments.

 

[Landon Caeli]

And some countries will overtly flout their commitments to the iCC. Though honestly, if I were Bibi, I would have some doubts about visiting Hungary when fascists are in power.

Orban invites Netanyahu to Hungary as ICC warrant divides Europeans​

All EU countries are members of the court, which means they are supposed to enforce its warrants.

But the diverging reactions - and the fact that EU heavyweights Germany and France have not said if they would arrest Netanyahu - highlight the major diplomatic and political challenge posed by the ICC decision, which drew swift condemnation from Israeli leaders and the White House.

The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Finland, Portugal, Slovenia and Ireland, are among EU states that have said they would meet their ICC commitments.

If any of those countries actually abduct the Israeli leader, I would support Israel in waging war against them, even Ireland. Yes, I would back Israel over any modern European country, as they all seem to have turned Juhadist over the last decade, IMO... IMO.

...But it was a problem that was of their own making when they opened the door to Jihadi migrants, and now the damage is done, and we see what has happened.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Finland, Portugal, Slovenia and Ireland, are among EU states that have said they would meet their ICC commitments.

we can add the UK

British foreign secretary says he has 'obligation' to comply with ICC’s request to arrest Netanyahu​

But France and Germany have now explicitly said they would not arrest Netanyahu (previously they had not commented). Then again, if Bibi gets an invitation to France because he won a prize and needs to come pick it up, I might have my doubts.

 

[Landon Caeli]

we can add the UK

British foreign secretary says he has 'obligation' to comply with ICC’s request to arrest Netanyahu​

But France and Germany have now explicitly said they would not arrest Netanyahu (previously they had not commented). Then again, if Bibi gets an invitation to France because he won a prize and needs to come pick it up, I might have my doubts.

...So the Brexit people decided to jump on board. We know it's not because they value the greatness of the ICC, or because they're making an even slightly wise decision, but more because those in power want to remain in popularity with their voting base, so they can remain in power - that's the sad part about democracy.

Thankfully Kamala wasn't elected here in the states, or we might have gone down a similar path, which could have completely disrupted the global order.

 

[essentialsaltes]

We know it's not because they value the greatness of the ICC, or because they're making an even slightly wise decision, but more because those in power want to remain in popularity with their voting base, so they can remain in power - that's the sad part about democracy.

What rubbish. They are signatories to the ICC and are obligated to abide by it, lest they become forsworn.

Thankfully Kamala wasn't elected here in the states, or we might have gone down a similar path

More rubbish. The US is not a party to the ICC.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What rubbish. They are signatories to the ICC and are obligated to abide by it, lest they become forsworn.


More rubbish. The US is not a party to the ICC.

Not rubbish. If it were rubbish then why are other signatories able to reject this abduction of a president, of one of their own allies, none the less?

Also, you missed the point about Kamala's election. The far left has been trying to pressure the center left for a long time to turn against Israel. My comments have nothing to do with the US's non-existant relationship with the ICC. It has everything to do with Kamala trying to appease her own base, including the far-left, as she surely would have done had she won the presidency.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Hear this - Democracy can and does fail entirely when it falls into 'the wrong hands'.

...There are examples in this world.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Not rubbish. If it were rubbish then why are other signatories able to reject this abduction of a president, of one of their own allies, none the less?

Like Mongolia, which decided not to arrest Putin, no doubt they have some way to rationalize their reasons for breaking their word and appearing weak in the face of international criminals.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Like Mongolia, which decided not to arrest Putin, no doubt they have some way to rationalize their reasons for breaking their word and appearing weak in the face of international criminals.

It seems like you might be implying that Mongolia is one of Russia's 'puppets', and that, perhaps France and Germany fall into the same category in regards to Israel, when they break their obligation to the ICC?

...I don't see how anyone can abide by any pact, when such radical ideas start unfolding that nobody could have predicted.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It seems like you might be implying that Mongolia is one of Russia's 'puppets', and that, perhaps France and Germany fall into the same category in regards to Israel, when they break their obligation to the ICC?

No.

 

[rjs330]

It was in response to:
"Did Israel attack Gaza, murdering, raping, butchering and kidnapping before 10/7? No"
when clearly the correct answer was yes as far as the murdering is concerned according to the above figures.

The figures show deaths for both sides. The imbalance comes from the fact that Israel kills far more Palestinians than vice versa.

Well I guess they shouldn't have attacked Israel in the first place. There is always imbalance in a battle. What kind of world do you live in to think otherwise? Do you think the casualties always should be even?

 

[essentialsaltes]

VISUAL FORENSICS​

A year of Israeli soldiers’ videos from Gaza​

In the 14 months since the Israeli military launched its invasion of Gaza, videos and photographs have repeatedly shown its forces demolishing entire buildings, including homes and schools, as well as looting and torching them. Other visuals have Israeli soldiers posing next to dead bodies and calling for the extermination and expulsion of Palestinians. Running through many of these images is the theme of exacting revenge on Gaza for the Hamas-led Oct. 7, 2023, attack

Israeli soldiers have posted thousands of photos and videos from the battlefield, recording their actions in the war and broadcasting them on social media. Though the Israel Defense Forces have ordered troops not to film and post “revenge” videos, they have continued to appear online throughout the war. The result is a vast cache that gives a rare and troubling view of how some elements of the Israeli military have conducted themselves during one of the most deadly and destructive wars in recent memory.

“It’s a breakdown of not just military discipline, but a break in understanding what it takes to represent the IDF and Israel,” said Asa Kasher, a professor who helped write the IDF Code of Ethics, which says soldiers should act with professionalism and discipline, and who viewed videos verified by The Post.

The Post shared verified videos with the IDF, which said it had conducted “disciplinary talks” with some of the soldiers involved because of incidents that “deviated from IDF values and principles and contradicted regulations.” It did not provide further details.

Legal experts who reviewed videos compiled by The Post said in the most egregious cases soldiers are effectively logging evidence of possible violations of international humanitarian law.

Some videos shot by IDF soldiers have already been used by South Africa in its genocide case against Israel at the ICJ. It could take years for a final ruling to come down.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hamas and Fatah are near an agreement on who will oversee postwar Gaza​

CAIRO — (AP) — Palestinian officials say Fatah and Hamas are closing in on an agreement to appoint a committee of politically independent technocrats to administer the Gaza Strip after the war.

It would report to the PA, essentially cutting out Hamas.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza​

The report, ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza, documents how, during its military offensive launched in the wake of the deadly Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel on 7 October 2023, Israel has unleashed [all heck] and destruction on Palestinians in Gaza brazenly, continuously and with total impunity.

“Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International. 

“Our research reveals that, for months, Israel has persisted in committing genocidal acts, fully aware of the irreparable harm it was inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza. It continued to do so in defiance of countless warnings about the catastrophic humanitarian situation and of legally binding decisions from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordering Israel to take immediate measures to enable the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Agnès Callamard. 

After 7 October 2023, Israel imposed a total siege on Gaza cutting off electricity, water and fuel. In the nine months reviewed for this report, Israel maintained a suffocating, unlawful blockade, tightly controlled access to energy sources, failed to facilitate meaningful humanitarian access within Gaza, and obstructed the import and delivery of life-saving goods and humanitarian aid, particularly to areas north of Wadi Gaza. They thereby exacerbated an already existing humanitarian crisis. This, combined with the extensive damage to Gaza’s homes, hospitals, water and sanitation facilities and agricultural land, and mass forced displacement, caused catastrophic levels of hunger and led to the spread of diseases at alarming rates. The impact was especially harsh on young children and pregnant or breastfeeding women, with anticipated long-term consequences for their health.

 

[rjs330]

Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza​

The report, ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza, documents how, during its military offensive launched in the wake of the deadly Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel on 7 October 2023, Israel has unleashed [all heck] and destruction on Palestinians in Gaza brazenly, continuously and with total impunity.

“Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International. 

“Our research reveals that, for months, Israel has persisted in committing genocidal acts, fully aware of the irreparable harm it was inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza. It continued to do so in defiance of countless warnings about the catastrophic humanitarian situation and of legally binding decisions from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordering Israel to take immediate measures to enable the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Agnès Callamard. 

After 7 October 2023, Israel imposed a total siege on Gaza cutting off electricity, water and fuel. In the nine months reviewed for this report, Israel maintained a suffocating, unlawful blockade, tightly controlled access to energy sources, failed to facilitate meaningful humanitarian access within Gaza, and obstructed the import and delivery of life-saving goods and humanitarian aid, particularly to areas north of Wadi Gaza. They thereby exacerbated an already existing humanitarian crisis. This, combined with the extensive damage to Gaza’s homes, hospitals, water and sanitation facilities and agricultural land, and mass forced displacement, caused catastrophic levels of hunger and led to the spread of diseases at alarming rates. The impact was especially harsh on young children and pregnant or breastfeeding women, with anticipated long-term consequences for their health.

Gaza has received tons of humanitarian aid and Hamas has stolen it all.

Amnesty International is nothing but a fake organization that hates Israel.

 

[Canuckster]

Gaza has received tons of humanitarian aid and Hamas has stolen it all.

Amnesty International is nothing but a fake organization that hates Israel.

Canadian doctors who recently visited Gaza are calling it a genocide.

x.com

x.com

 

[rjs330]

Canadian doctors who recently visited Gaza are calling it a genocide.

x.com

x.com

People.have no idea what a genocide is.

 

[Canuckster]

People.have no idea what a genocide is.

But you do....

 

[Philip_B]

But you do....

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, religious, or cultural group. It can involve:

• Killing members of the group
  
  
• Causing serious harm to members of the group
  
  
• Deliberately inflicting conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction
  
  
• Imposing measures to prevent births within the group
  
  
• Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
  
  
• • Starvation
    
  • Forced deportation
    
  • Political, economic, and biological subjugation
    

Genocide is an international crime, as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The convention requires signatories to prevent genocide, prosecute perpetrators, and incorporate genocide into their municipal law.

Some examples of groups that have been targeted in recent years include: The Rohingya in Myanmar, The Uyghurs in China, and The Armenians in Azerbaijan.

The legal bar for establishing genocidal intent is difficult to meet, and it can be difficult to establish international consensus about whether genocide is taking place.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ailing kids wait months for Israeli permission to leave Gaza for treatment. Some die in the meantime​

The Israeli military often takes months to respond to medical evacuation requests, and the number of evacuations has plunged in recent months.