Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Nithavela]

Please also post a summary of videos when you post them. It's part of the forum rules. Also, a time stamp of the evidence would be appreciated.

 

[Rodney3929]

The iron dome missiles cost about 80.000 dollar, not 2 million.

Israel’s Iron Dome air defense system works well – here’s how Hamas got around it

After the Gaza-based Palestinian militant group Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, research explains how one of the world's best defense systems was not

www.colorado.edu

Israel is also using the laser defence systems "Iron Beam", which only costs about 2k per shot.

Iron Beam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

See, this is what I mean with quoting your evidence. Please follow this example, and people will no longer disregard what you write out of hand and ignore you.

I was talking about our naval ships.

 

[Rodney3929]

 

[Rodney3929]

If you need some more let me know.

 

[Rodney3929]

Please also post a summary of videos when you post them. It's part of the forum rules. Also, a time stamp of the evidence would be appreciated.

Their pretty self explanatory. All of them identify the official narrative pushed by Israel is garbage. Much like our cave dwellers suddenly becoming technological geniuses to carry out the Twin Towers attacks.

 

[Nithavela]

Their pretty self explanatory. All of them identify the official narrative pushed by Israel is garbage. Much like our cave dwellers suddenly becoming technological geniuses to carry out the Twin Towers attacks.

I wasn't aware that 9/11 was carried out by cave dwellers.

 

[Nithavela]

If you need some more let me know.

As a matter of fact, I'm only watching the first one, I don't have time for more. Posting a slew of evidence without any statements is called a "Gish gallop" and is generally seen as bad form because it looks like you are trying to overwhelm instead of convince. In general, it's best to quote one strong source instead of a number of weak or incidental ones.

Okay, so, in this video the hostage says that some people in the kibbutz might have been killed by the israeli army during the crossfire with Hamas. This isn't even close to what you claimed with "most people" being killed by the IDF. And even if people died during the crossfire by bullets fired by IDF soldiers, Hamas is still for their blame, because they were the ones who caused the crossfire in the first place. Without Hamas invading Israel, there wouldn't have been a crossfire. What would you expect IDF soldiers do, fix bayonets and charge into AK-47 fire? Just let Hamas drive away with the hostages? Please.

Supressing this information isn't something I agree with (if it really happened).

The guy is also quoting extensively from some articles that aren't linked and points to the hannibal directive, which was abolished in 2016 (but was pretty deplorable).

After that, he's talking about the current war of Israel in Gaza (at the time of the video, which was posted 2 months ago), which is no longer on topic, so I stopped watching.

 

[Rodney3929]

I wasn't aware that 9/11 was carried out by cave dwellers.

That was the claim. That our C.I.A. asset Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda friends were all dwelling in caves.

 

[Rodney3929]

As a matter of fact, I'm only watching the first one, I don't have time for more. Posting a slew of evidence without any statements is called a "Gish gallop" and is generally seen as bad form because it looks like you are trying to overwhelm instead of convince. In general, it's best to quote one strong source instead of a number of weak or incidental ones.


Okay, so, in this video the hostage says that some people in the kibbutz might have been killed by the israeli army during the crossfire with Hamas. This isn't even close to what you claimed with "most people" being killed by the IDF. And even if people died during the crossfire by bullets fired by IDF soldiers, Hamas is still for their blame, because they were the ones who caused the crossfire in the first place. Without Hamas invading Israel, there wouldn't have been a crossfire. What would you expect IDF soldiers do, fix bayonets and charge into AK-47 fire? Just let Hamas drive away with the hostages? Please.

Supressing this information isn't something I agree with (if it really happened).

The guy is also quoting extensively from some articles that aren't linked and points to the hannibal directive, which was abolished in 2016 (but was pretty deplorable).

After that, he's talking about the current war of Israel in Gaza (at the time of the video, which was posted 2 months ago), which is no longer on topic, so I stopped watching.

You're going to believe the official narrative regardless of any evidence presented. I believe Israel has a right to self defense and should make these terrorists pay yet collective punishment is not the way to do it. The failure of border alarms, sensors, cameras, no physical sentries, IDF personnel on at least 15 bases caught off guard, taking 5 to 7 hours to respond on territory smaller than New Jersey is just crap to me. Nobody is that incompetent.

 

[Rodney3929]

If Israel is really that incompetent, they have no chance in winning this conflict especially once Hezbollah goes all in.

 

[Rodney3929]

I am convinced the events of October 7th were judgement by the Lord God against a rebellious Israel. Further judgement is coming regardless of the presence of the United States and their allies in the region. Israel will soon have to cry out to God to deliver them.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That would of course depend on what kind of shells you are using in the Merkava Tanks. Israel needs military aid so employing propaganda is their tool to gain it. As far as the U.S., even our allies are hesitant to join in this campaign. Aircraft Carriers are dinosaurs much like Tanks in modern warfare. Just keep your head on a swivel.

The Eisenhower is the oldest carrier we have at the time, so it most certainly meets the definition of dinosaur. At the same time, it is still faster and more capable than any other carrier outside the US Fleet.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Love the use of 2 million dollar missiles to shoot down 5 thousand dollar drones. All of us taxpayers are so proud.

We have started using cheaper missiles.

 

[Nithavela]

You're going to believe the official narrative regardless of any evidence presented.

I already accepted some of the evidence you presented that isn't part of "official narrative" as at least plausible.

 

[Rodney3929]

The Eisenhower is the oldest carrier we have at the time, so it most certainly meets the definition of dinosaur. At the same time, it is still faster and more capable than any other carrier outside the US Fleet.

Zumwalt class and others of the same design have more cracks then a sidewalk. Got to go at turtle speed of they fall apart like a dropping a champagne glass! Those stealth ships are the poorest desiged ships ever made.

 

[o_mlly]

I never believed the 40 babies being beheaded garbage ...

OK. The credulity of a claim is important but not in itself conclusive.

Nobody can dispute the burned cars were a product of hellfire missiles.

And, what crime does "burned cars" in a war zone indicate as probable?

The kibbutz with homes reduced to rubble when Hamas had nothing but small arms and rpg's.

And, what crime does "homes reduced to rubble" in a war zone indicate as probable?

The many Israeli soldiers and civilians burnt beyond recognition or blown to pieces were also a direct result of hellfire missiles or incendiary artillery or tank rounds fired by the Israeli forces.

Isn't a body burnt beyond recognition one that cannot be identified as an Israeli or Hamas soldier or a civilian?

It seems that a conclusion as to the type of ordinance used to inflict such damage as a forensic issue is important. If you are correct that the only type of capable ordinance is the kind employed solely by Israeli forces then the next piece of evidence necessary to evidence a war crime is to show that the Israeli forces targeted that weaponry on civilians, or the number of innocent persons killed exceeded the military advantage gained.

we can look at the verifiable evidence.

Yes, that is an important consideration. Also necessary is to hear the Israeli's defense prior to concluding that the Israelis committed war crimes.

So far, your posts are examples of the horrors of war. I think your conclusion that the Israelis have committed war crimes has not been demonstrated. They may have. Let the prosecutors state the specific charges, show that their evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt and hear the Israelis rebuttal. Seems only fair.

 

[Desk trauma]

I am convinced the events of October 7th were judgement by the Lord God against a rebellious Israel.

I suspect I could look forward to my account being suspended were I to say gang rape was a tool of the Christian deity but I guess theists can say such things without repercussions.

 

[Nithavela]

I suspect I could look forward to my account being suspended were I to say gang rape was a tool of the Christian deity but I guess theists can say such things without repercussions.

There is some biblical precedence for that kind of behaviour being ordered by god.

 

[Rodney3929]

OK. The credulity of a claim is important but not in itself conclusive.

And, what crime does "burned cars" in a war zone indicate as probable?

And, what crime does "homes reduced to rubble" in a war zone indicate as probable?

Isn't a body burnt beyond recognition one that cannot be identified as an Israeli or Hamas soldier or a civilian?

It seems that a conclusion as to the type of ordinance used to inflict such damage as a forensic issue is important. If you are correct that the only type of capable ordinance is the kind employed solely by Israeli forces then the next piece of evidence necessary to evidence a war crime is to show that the Israeli forces targeted that weaponry on civilians, or the number of innocent persons killed exceeded the military advantage gained.

Yes, that is an important consideration. Also necessary is to hear the Israeli's defense prior to concluding that the Israelis committed war crimes.

So far, your posts are examples of the horrors of war. I think your conclusion that the Israelis have committed war crimes has not been demonstrated. They may have. Let the prosecutors state the specific charges, show that their evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt and hear the Israelis rebuttal. Seems only fair.

Was not trying to convince anyone of Israeli war crimes. I was however identifying that the propaganda put forth by Israeli officials to justify their rampant collective murder of Palestinian civilians as fraudulent. Not only are the circumstances involved in the invasion by Hamas impossible to explain without utter incompetence of Israeli leadership and military personnel, the fraudulent claims of atrocities committed by Hamas have been proven false.

 

[rjs330]

Was not trying to convince anyone of Israeli war crimes. I was however identifying that the propaganda put forth by Israeli officials to justify their rampant collective murder of Palestinian civilians as fraudulent. Not only are the circumstances involved in the invasion by Hamas impossible to explain without utter incompetence of Israeli leadership and military personnel, the fraudulent claims of atrocities committed by Hamas have been proven false.

Yes you are. By accusing them of collective murder is trying to convince people if Israeli war crimes.

You are correct about the beheadings. However the other atrocities by Hamas have been proven to be true. And the attacks by Apache have been proven to be false.