Israel and the Church

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

Actually they unequivocally are. Never the twain shall meet.

Greetings.

Note that Romans 11:28 refers to elect unbelievers, enemies of the
gospel, just as 2 Timothy 2:10 refers to elect unbelievers, who have
yet to obtain salvation.

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

Study Romans 8:
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed
to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brethren.

Note that Romans 8:29 doesn't say that those predestinated to
salvation can't be unbelievers before they get saved.

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

And Colossians 3:
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God...And have put on the
new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that
created him...Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and
beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,
longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if
any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so
also do ye.

Note that Colossians 3 doesn't say that the elect can't be
unbelievers before they get saved.

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

And 1Pet 1:
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through
sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the
blood of Jesus Christ

Note that 1 Peter 1:2 doesn't say that the elect can't be unbelievers
before they get saved. The original Greek of 1 Peter 1:1-2 can be
translated as "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect
sojourners scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia
and Bithynia. According to the foreknowledge of God the Father in
sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood
of Jesus Christ, grace unto you and peace be multiplied".

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

Nothing in Romans 11 specifies the Jews, but rather all Israel (ALL
12 TRIBES, hence Jacob, not just Judah).

The Jews include some members from all 12 tribes of Israel, because
some members of all 12 tribes of Israel came to live in the kingdom
of Judah after the kingdom of Israel fell into apostasy (2 Chronicles
11:16-17), and their descendants remained part of the kingdom of
Judah down through the ages. That's why some people from all 12
tribes of Israel still existed in the first century (Acts 26:7, James
1:1). Anna, for example, is from the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), just
as Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1) and Barnabas is
from the tribe of Levi (Acts 4:36). Even though Paul isn't from the
tribe of Judah, he is still a Jew (Acts 22:3), meaning that he is
descended from people who became part of the kingdom of Judah.

Zadok7000 posted in message #20 of this thread:

Nothing is said about the 2nd coming.

In Romans 11:26, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer" refers
to the second coming, when all of the unbelieving elect Jews will be
saved (Romans 11:26-28), when they all see the returned Jesus in
person (Zechariah 12:10-14).

 

[Zadok7000]

The Jews include some members from all 12 tribes of Israel, because
some members of all 12 tribes of Israel came to live in the kingdom
of Judah after the kingdom of Israel fell into apostasy (2 Chronicles
11:16-17), and their descendants remained part of the kingdom of
Judah down through the ages. That's why some people from all 12
tribes of Israel still existed in the first century (Acts 26:7, James
1:1). Anna, for example, is from the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), just
as Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1) and Barnabas is
from the tribe of Levi (Acts 4:36). Even though Paul isn't from the
tribe of Judah, he is still a Jew (Acts 22:3), meaning that he is
descended from people who became part of the kingdom of Judah.

The House of Judah (Jews) always was Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi. The House of Israel was scattered and now have many nations of their own. They haven't lived in the Middle East for millennia and for the most part are already Christian.

 

[zeke37]

Paul was a benjaminite, which was in the HOUSE of Judah, the southern kingdom...he was a jew and a roman

 

[Col3_11n12]

In contrast to Classic Dispensationalism, Covenant Theology has always maintained the essential continuity of Israel and the church. The elect of all the ages are seen as one people, with one Savior, one destiny.

I am not the biggest proponent of Covenant Theology, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. Galatians 3 explains how Abraham's seed and the Church are one and the same, and have always been. There is no "replacement", as dispensationalists frequently claim.

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #22 of this thread:
The House of Judah (Jews) always was Judah, Benjamin and part
of Levi

Greetings.

The kingdom of Judah came to include people from all 12 tribes of
Israel (2 Chronicles 11:16-17).

 

[Zadok7000]

Greetings.

The kingdom of Judah came to include people from all 12 tribes of
Israel (2 Chronicles 11:16-17).

And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers. So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah

This infinitesimal number in no way eliminates the far larger Kingdom/House of Israel that never returned. There are separate prophecies and promises to them ALONE, some that have yet to be fulfilled. You really have to study some more on this. The Assyrians released nobody I guess...Learn some history, sir.

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #26 of this thread:
This infinitesimal number

Greetings.

2 Chronicles 11:16-17 doesn't refer to an infinitesimal number, but to
a number large enough to actually strengthen the kingdom of Judah.

Zadok7000:
in no way eliminates the far larger Kingdom/House of Israel that
never returned

It wasn't said that 2 Chronicles 11:16-17 eliminates the house of
Israel (Jeremiah 31:31), for because of 2 Chronicles 11:16-17 the
house of Israel existed in Judaea in the first century (Matthew 10:6,
Matthew 15:24, Acts 2:36). Jeremiah 31:33 shows that under the
New Covenant of Jesus (Matthew 26:28) the house of Israel can
now refer to both the house of Israel and the house of Judah
(Jeremiah 31:31,33). And Israel under the New Covenant is not
based on genetics, but includes only elect Jews and elect Gentiles
(Romans 9:6-24). Unelect Jews are the children of the devil (John
8:42-47, Revelation 2:9, 3:9), just as all unelect people, regardless
of whether they are Jews or Gentiles, are the children of the devil
(Matthew 13:38-42). So genetics doesn't save anybody.

Zadok7000:
There are separate prophecies and promises to them ALONE, some
that have yet to be fulfilled.

What unfulfilled prophecies are for the house of Israel excluding the
house of Judah?

 

[Zadok7000]

2 Chronicles 11:16-17 doesn't refer to an infinitesimal number, but to
a number large enough to actually strengthen the kingdom of Judah.

History quiz: when did the Assyrians capture the 10 Northern Tribes (IE the House of Israel)? When and where were they released? Hint: they did NOT return to Jerusalem or anywhere near it.

It wasn't said that 2 Chronicles 11:16-17 eliminates the house of
Israel (Jeremiah 31:31), for because of 2 Chronicles 11:16-17 the
house of Israel existed in Judaea in the first century (Matthew 10:6,
Matthew 15:24, Acts 2:36).

Absolutely bogus. Those "out of" the tribes "that set their hearts to seek the Lord" NEVER constituted "the House of Israel". Last time I checked, James and Peter were Apostles. Check the opening lines of their epistles. The Lost Sheep were scattered abroad (IE not in Judea/Samaria)! Hence "LOST"!

Jeremiah 31:33 shows that under the
New Covenant of Jesus (Matthew 26:28) the house of Israel can
now refer to both the house of Israel and the house of Judah
(Jeremiah 31:31,33).

Another whopper. You show me how in ANY way this says the 2 Houses are now interchangable: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah

They are SEPARATED until Christ returns (Ezek. 37, Hosea 1, Zech. 8) REGARDLESS of if they accept Him beforehand. Saved Israel and saved Judah, united in Spirit, but still SEPARATED. Judah does NOT equal Israel and Israel does NOT equal Judah. Different Kingdoms, different nations, different prophecies.

And Israel under the New Covenant is not based on genetics...genetics doesn't save anybody.

No duh. This conversation is not about salvation. As much as you want to deny it, physical Israel (House of, 10 northern tribes) still exists (in the hundreds of millions) has NOT returned to Jerusalem, and are NOT called Jews and never were.

What unfulfilled prophecies are for the house of Israel excluding the
house of Judah?

Start in Genesis - the numbers of people promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; Ch. 48 (followup to ch. 37). Many places in Ezekiel, especially ch. 38 and 39. Zech. 10.

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #28 of this thread:
when did the Assyrians capture the 10 Northern Tribes (IE the
House of Israel)?

Greetings.

The Assyrians didn't capture everyone in the 10 northern tribes,
because hundreds of years earlier some people from each of the
10 northern tribes came to live in and become part of the southern
kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17). That's why, for example,
Anna in the first century could be from the northern tribe of Asher
(Luke 2:36).

Zadok7000:
When and where were they released?

The Bible doesn't say when and where those in the 10 northern
tribes who were captured by the Assyrians were released. They
and their descendants were lost to history. Their descendants did
not retain their Israelite religion, Bible, Hebrew language, Mosaic
culture or Israelite self-identity, but instead melted away into and
became part of the Gentiles. So now there are only Jews
(descendants of those who were part of the kingdom of Judah) and
Gentiles (Romans 9:24). And the elect Jews and Gentiles are the only
ones who can rightly be called Israel (Romans 9:6-24).

Zadok7000:
Those "out of" the tribes "that set their hearts to seek the Lord"
NEVER constituted "the House of Israel".

In ancient times, the 10 northern tribes were the house of Israel, so
the people from each of the 10 northern tribes who came to live
in and become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles
11:16-17) were of the house of Israel. And because the rest of the
house of Israel was later taken captive by the Assyrians and their
descendants melted away into and became part of the Gentiles, the
elect descendants of the kingdom of Judah, who included people
from all 12 tribes, are called the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6,
15:24, Acts 2:36), along with all elect Gentiles (Romans 9:6-24),
who by faith are grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians
2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), so that the whole church is the 12 tribes
of Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b).

Zadok7000:
James and Peter were Apostles.

How does one feel that that changes anything with regard to the
subject at hand?

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #28 of this thread:
The Lost Sheep were scattered abroad (IE not in Judea/Samaria)!
Hence "LOST"!

Actually, the lost sheep of the house of Israel were not the
physically lost descendants of those Israelites captured by
the Assyrians, which descendants melted away into and became
part of the Gentiles. Instead, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
were the spiritually lost Jews to whom Jesus was sent during his
earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24) and to whom Jesus sent his
disciples during his earthly ministry (Matthew 10:6), and to whom
Peter preached in Jerusalem (Acts 2:36).

Zadok7000:
You show me how in ANY way this says the 2 Houses are now
interchangable

Jeremiah 31:33 is saying the same thing as Jeremiah 31:31, showing
that the house of Israel can refer to both the house of Israel and
the house of Judah.

Zadok7000:
They are SEPARATED until Christ returns (Ezek. 37, Hosea 1, Zech. 8)

What verses in Ezekiel 37, Hosea 1, and Zechariah 8 does one feel
say or require that the houses of Israel and Judah are separated until
Christ returns?

Zadok7000:
Saved Israel and saved Judah, united in Spirit, but still SEPARATED.

How does one feel that saved Israel and saved Judah can be united
in Spirit but still be separated? How can there be any separation in
the one body of Christ? (1 Corinthians 12:25).

Zadok7000:
Judah does NOT equal Israel

If Judah does not equal Israel, then how could Peter address Jews
(Acts 2:5,14) as the men of Israel (Acts 2:22) and the house of
Israel? (Acts 2:36).

Zadok7000:
Israel does NOT equal Judah

If Israel does not equal Judah, then how could men of Israel (Acts
2:22), the house of Israel (Acts 2:36), be called Jews? (Acts 2:5,14).

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #28 of this thread:
Different Kingdoms

How can saved Israel and saved Judah be in different kingdoms? Is
the king of Israel (John 12:13) different than the king of the Jews?
(Luke 23:3,38, Matthew 2:2). Is there more than one kingdom of
God? (Romans 14:17).

Zadok7000:
different nations

How can saved Israel and saved Judah be in different nations? Is not
the church a single nation? (1 Peter 2:9).

Zadok7000:
different prophecies.

What different prophecies?

Zadok7000:
This conversation is not about salvation.

So when one refers to "Saved Israel and saved Judah", one is not
referring to salvation?

Zadok7000:
physical Israel (House of, 10 northern tribes) still exists (in the
hundreds of millions)

What scripture says or requires that the descendants of the
Israelites taken captive by Assyria didn't melt away into and
become part of the Gentiles?

Zadok7000:
has NOT returned to Jerusalem, and are NOT called Jews and never
were.

The descendants of the Israelites who weren't taken captive by
Assyria, but had become part of the kingdom of Judah hundreds of
years earlier (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), did return to Jerusalem along
with the rest of the kingdom of Judah after the Babylonian Captivity,
and so they would have been called Jews like all the rest (Ezra 5:1).

Zadok7000:
Start in Genesis - the numbers of people promised to Abraham, Isaac
and Jacob; Ch. 48 (followup to ch. 37). Many places in Ezekiel,
especially ch. 38 and 39. Zech. 10.

Wasn't Genesis 15:5 fulfilled way back in the time of Moses?
(Deuteronomy 1:10). What verses in Genesis 48, Ezekiel chapters
38-39 and Zechariah 10 does one feel are unfulfilled prophecies for
the house of Israel excluding the house of Judah?

 

[Zadok7000]

The Bible doesn't say when and where those in the 10 northern
tribes who were captured by the Assyrians were released.

But the Assyrians themselves did say. As I said, you need to study your history becuase your understanding of it is woefully inadequate on this topic.

They and their descendants were lost to history.

Patently FALSE. They MADE (and continue to make) history. Just as God said.

Their descendants did not retain their Israelite religion, Bible, Hebrew language, Mosaic culture or Israelite self-identity, but instead melted away into and became part of the Gentiles.

You have no idea what happened to them after the Assyrians released them and yet you know exactly what they did and did not retain?

So now there are only Jews (descendants of those who were part of the kingdom of Judah) and Gentiles (Romans 9:24). And the elect Jews and Gentiles are the only ones who can rightly be called Israel (Romans 9:6-24).

The House of Israel is a physical designation, sorry to break it to you. Most of whom are Believers. This is where your confusion (and wrong teaching) begins.

How does one feel that that changes anything with regard to the
subject at hand?

You used Matt. 10:6 to erroneously suggest that the 10 tribes were returned to Judea. "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not; But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
1. He said the Lost Sheep were not in their old capital of Samaria. They are "scattered abroad".
2. Among those sent forth were Peter and James. I said read the opening lines to their espistles. Did you?

Actually, the lost sheep of the house of Israel were not the
physically lost descendants of those Israelites captured by
the Assyrians, which descendants melted away into and became
part of the Gentiles.

This is just too absurd to address...

What verses in Ezekiel 37, Hosea 1, and Zechariah 8 does one feel
say or require that the houses of Israel and Judah are separated until
Christ returns?

Seriously dude???
Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions...And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And David my servant shall be king over them

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem...Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

Let's see...David back on earth, innumerable physical Israel gathered in Jerusalem, Lord returned to Zion...you're right, these are not at Christ's return at all!

How can saved Israel and saved Judah be in different nations? Is not the church a single nation? (1 Peter 2:9).

Again you obfuscate. Regardless of their "salvation status", the 2 houses were given different physical nations in fulfillment of prophecy. The house of Judah has 1 nation, the house of Israel has many, led as always by Joseph.

What scripture says or requires that the descendants of the
Israelites taken captive by Assyria didn't melt away into and
become part of the Gentiles?

Other than the Bible never says they will do that? The promises to the house of Israel - their divinely appointed destiny - is laid out in several OT books, beginning in Genesis. Get to studying. I already gave you some good relevant places to begin. Time to unlearn the traditions of man...

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #32 of this thread:
the Assyrians themselves did say.

Greetings.

What did the Assyrians say about a release of the Israelites taken
captive, so we can look at that?

Zadok7000:
They MADE (and continue to make) history.

In what history books did the Israelites taken captive and their
descendants make history after their captivity, so we can look at
that?

Zadok7000:
Just as God said.

Where did God say that the Israelites taken captive and their
descendants would make history after their captivity, so we can
look at that?

Zadok7000:
You have no idea what happened to them after the Assyrians
released them and yet you know exactly what they did and did not
retain?

The fact that the descendants of the Israelites taken captive were
lost to history would require that they lost their Israelite religion,
Bible, Hebrew language, Mosaic culture and Israelite self-identity, or
else history would have recorded them as Israelites.

Zadok7000:
The House of Israel is a physical designation

The house of Israel is not a physical designation (Romans 9:6-8).
The house of Israel (Acts 2:36,22) includes only physical Jews
(Acts 2:5,14) who are elect (Romans 11:25-28), and includes as
well Gentiles who are elect (Romans 9:6-24). All believing physical
Jews are Israel (Romans 11:1) and all believing physical Gentiles are
grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians
3:29). This is necessary because the New Covenant by which
everyone in the church is saved (Matthew 26:28) is made only with
Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #32 of this thread:
You used Matt. 10:6 to erroneously suggest that the 10 tribes were
returned to Judea.

Matthew 10:6 shows that in the first century the house of Israel
was the Jews living in Judaea and Galilee, for in Matthew 10:6 Jesus
told the apostles to go to the same lost sheep of the house of Israel
whom Jesus was sent to during his earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24),
and Jesus was sent to only the Jews living in Judaea and Galilee.
And the Jews living in Judaea and Galilee consisted of all twelve
tribes; that's why, for example, Anna could be from the tribe of
Asher (Luke 2:36). For people from all of the 10 northern tribes came
to live in and become part of the kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles
11:16-17) hundreds of years before the captivity of the northern
kingdom.

Zadok7000:
They are "scattered abroad".

What verse is one referring to? Matthew 9:36? If so, Matthew 9:36
is referring to the multitudes of Jews listening to Jesus as sheep
scattered abroad. Or is one referring to Matthew 26:31? If so,
Matthew 26:31 is referring to the apostles after the arrest of Jesus.
Or is one referring to John 11:52? If so, John 11:52 is referring to
the elect Gentiles who would be saved along with the elect Jews
(Romans 9:8-24).

Zadok7000:
Among those sent forth were Peter and James.

How does one feel that the fact that among those sent forth in
Matthew 10:5-6 were the apostles Peter and James changes
anything with regard to the subject at hand?

Zadok7000:
This is just too absurd to address...

What does one feel is absurd about the lost sheep of the house of
Israel to whom Jesus was sent during his earthly ministry (Matthew
15:24) not being the physically lost descendants of those Israelites
captured by the Assyrians, as those descendants melted away into
and became part of the Gentiles?

Zadok7000:
Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it,
For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take
another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim,
and for all the house of Israel his companions...And say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel
from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather
them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And David
my servant shall be king over them

How does one feel that Ezekiel 37:16,21,24 says or requires that
the houses of Israel and Judah are separated until Christ returns?
Why did one skip over Ezekiel 37:17-20, which shows the unity
which occurred spiritually in the first century (1 Corinthians 12:13),
some 2,000 years before the future millennial return to the land and
the restoration of the earthly kingdom of Israel by the returned
Jesus (Acts 1:6-7, 3:20-21, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7) in Ezekiel
37:21-22, when the unity will become earthly-political?

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #32 of this thread:
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the
sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to
pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my
people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the
living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel
be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they
shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

How does one feel that Hosea 1:10-11 says or requires that the
houses of Israel and Judah are separated until Christ returns?
Hosea 1:10 refers to the unity which occurred spiritually in the first
century (Romans 9:8-26), for Romans 9:26 is a direct quote from
Hosea 1:10, showing that it was fulfilled in the first century, some
2,000 years before the future millennial return to the land and the
restoration of the earthly kingdom of Israel by the returned Jesus
(Acts 1:6-7, 3:20-21, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7) in Hosea 1:11, when
the unity will become earthly-political.

Zadok7000:
Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the
midst of Jerusalem...Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will
save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:
and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in
righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse
among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will
I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands
be strong.

How does one feel that Zechariah 8:3,7,8,13 says or requires that
the houses of Israel and Judah are separated until Christ returns?
What in Zechariah 8:3,7,8,13 forbids them from being spiritually
united in the first century (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:8-26)
before the millennial return to the land and the restoration of the
earthly kingdom of Israel by the returned Jesus (Acts 1:6-7,
3:20-21, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7) in Zechariah 8:3,7,8,13, when the
unity will become earthly-political? And what does one make of
Zechariah 8:23, where only "a Jew" is mentioned with regard to
that future time? Is this not because all believers, both Jews and
Gentiles, are "Jews"? (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3).

Zadok7000:
Regardless of their "salvation status", the 2 houses were given
different physical nations in fulfillment of prophecy.

In what prophecy are the two saved houses given different physical
nations, so we can look at that? Aren't all of the saved currently to
have no physical nations, but are to be strangers and pilgrims on the
earth (1 Peter 2:11), knowing that their citizenship is in heaven
(Philippians 3:20), from whence they look for the return of Jesus
(Philippians 3:20) to establish the physical kingdom of God on the
earth during the millennium? (Matthew 19:28, Luke 13:28-29,
Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Psalms 2).

 

[Bible2]

Zadok7000 posted in message #32 of this thread:
The house of Judah has 1 nation, the house of Israel has many, led
as always by Joseph.

In what prophecy does the house of Judah have one nation, and the
house of Israel has many, led by Joseph, so we can look at that?

Zadok7000:
Other than the Bible never says they will do that?

Again, what scripture says or requires that the descendants of the
Israelites taken captive by Assyria wouldn't melt away into and
become part of the Gentiles, as actually happened?

Zadok7000:
The promises to the house of Israel - their divinely appointed destiny
- is laid out in several OT books, beginning in Genesis.

Can one give specific chapter and verse references from several Old
Testament books, beginning in Genesis, which say or require that the
house of Israel is currently anything different than all of the elect
Jews and Gentiles (Romans 9:6-24), so we can look at that?

Zadok7000:
I already gave you some good relevant places to begin.

As asked before, wasn't Genesis 15:5 fulfilled way back in the time of
Moses? (Deuteronomy 1:10). What verses in Genesis 48, Ezekiel
chapters 38-39 and Zechariah 10 does one feel are unfulfilled
prophecies for the house of Israel excluding the house of Judah?

Zadok7000:
Time to unlearn the traditions of man...

What traditions of man is one referring to?