Isn't war evil?

[inquisitor_11]

Woohoo, dispensationalism! Let's do whatever we want 'cause Jesus doesn't mean what he says!

 

[GenemZ]

Woohoo, dispensationalism! Let's do whatever we want 'cause Jesus doesn't mean what he says!

Hello? Who was that directed to? And why?

What post was that in response to? Since you give no quote in reference to what you are addressing, what you said only sounds like a disconnected outburst. Want to try again?

Thanks! GeneZ

 

[daidhaid]

Hello? Who was that directed to? And why?

What post was that in response to? Since you give no quote in reference to what you are addressing, what you said only sounds like a disconnected outburst. Want to try again?

Thanks! GeneZ

I'm so sorry I must apologize for that unseemly disconnected outburst.
It was undirected and humorous, therefore it was uncalled for.
I for one am saddened that a fellow poster would make what appears to be,,, a facetious one liner.
Please on behalf of the internet community accept this sincere apolgy.

 

[daidhaid]

Woohoo, dispensationalism! Let's do whatever we want 'cause Jesus doesn't mean what he says!

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Inquisitor_11 should have used a hyphen in spelling "woo-hoo"..?


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to inquisitor_11 again."

 

[GenemZ]

I'm so sorry I must apologize for that unseemly disconnected outburst.
It was undirected and humorous, therefore it was uncalled for.
I for one am saddened that a fellow poster would make what appears to be,,, a facetious one liner.
Please on behalf of the internet community accept this sincere apolgy.

Thanks for helping the situation.

It might be good to know who he was speaking to.

I can see by your responses, that you hold grudges.

And, are always ready with an answer with substance.

Here, have another Guinness. At least that has a good head on it.

 

[Strife]

looks at blessings* Hmm, what's with that? It looks like some have abandoned me.

Yes it's been a while since I have made a post here in a long time. Any who, regarding the topic, check this out.. http://www.bible.com/answers/awar.html

"God hates war; however, it is necessary to maintain order in the earth and overcome those who would like to destroy good.", on behalf of the author's opinion. Regardless if wars are holy in a sense of good vs evil, righteous, etc., I still don't believe in it one bit. Daidhaid makes very good points, and it's obvious to me that he is right.

Is war ever good? It NEVER WILL be. Is it evil?...I won't even answer that one. How on earth is murdering our fellow brothers and sisters on earth righteous? What? They are the evil ones? They are manipulated possibly from the beginning of their child hood and spoon fed disbelief, yet they grow up to be the evil ones? Whos fault is it? Their parents, leaders, bad influence, Satan?

We're are all humans and we are sent to kill one another to eliminate threats and the evil amung this world. But I ask myself, why would God have us kill each other? Isn't it madd to watch his children/creation, go at it? Those who were the 'evil' ones (still his children/creation) who are killed are sent to eternal punishment. For what? They were caught up in the mess.

Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[GenemZ]

Is war ever good? It NEVER WILL be. Is it evil?...I won't even answer that one. How on earth is murdering our fellow brothers and sisters on earth righteous? What? They are the evil ones? They are manipulated possibly from the beginning of their child hood and spoon fed disbelief, yet they grow up to be the evil ones? Whos fault is it? Their parents, leaders, bad influence, Satan?

We're are all humans and we are sent to kill one another to eliminate threats and the evil amung this world. But I ask myself, why would God have us kill each other? Isn't it madd to watch his children/creation, go at it? Those who were the 'evil' ones (still his children/creation) who are killed are sent to eternal punishment. For what? They were caught up in the mess.

Sorry for getting off topic.

One thing we often times miss, is that angels watch us all the time. Both evil angels, and God's elect angels.

One very important reason God created man was to show angels what would happen if God did allow the fallen angels freedom to co-exist with the elect forever. Men represent to angels attributes very much like their own.

When we see wars on earth, they only represent the greater conflict between angels. God is showing why evil must be destroyed and removed away from the good. That its impossible to restore angels to the happiness they once knew with God before the Satanic rebellion, if evil is allowed to continue to co-exist.

Man was created on a playing field that angels watch and sometimes are allowed to influence. Why? To show them that its inevitable. That the angels who rebelled must never be allowed to return to the freedom they had once known. That if they were allowed to be free, that what evil men do to good men, they would do worse to good angels.

God is avoiding a much greater mess by not allowing the angels to always fight, and having men play it out before angels to see. For the angels would be too busy to learn anything from God about why he judged evil angels. By creating man which represent angels, they can watch and be taught by God as they do watch why evil must be destroyed.

Hitler? There are angels who see life just as he did. The superior race? Certain angels have a superiority complex and feel they are better than the elect angels. Just like the Pharisees saw themselves as superior to the mere common man, yet wanted to see the Lord murdered. Why? He knocked them off their prideful superiority perch.

Many things we see in life that we do not understand as to why God allows it to happen... But, at the same time it is making sense to angels in knowing why God must throw their once beloved Lucifer and their once friends (fallen angels) into Hell forever.

For angels throughout man's history see what Satan and his angels produce in men. How evil always is deceitful and unjust to the good.

God could not let the angels fight it out amongst themselves for the elect angels in the beginning had no concept of evil from within themselves. They were naive. They could not understand evil and what it would do if it could. They had no comprehension of evil. Yet, man does. Why? He is born a sinner!

Man is born a sinner. We can sense evil in another, and see how someone chooses to follow after selfish desires rather than noble desire. We can fight evil, knowing what it wants to do. Elect angels in the beginning of Satan's fall were like babes. They could understand nothing. Only that God had condemned their loved friends to the torments of fire forever.

When man was created God already knew man would fall. That is why Jesus was slain before the foundations of the world. God was already prepared to redeem fallen man! Man who needed to fall to fulfill God's purpose.

God had to do that. If he did not allow man to fall, man could never reveal to the angels what they would be like if God did not deal with the fallen angels severely. Now the elect angels know. Now they would have no problem seeing why God must confine the fallen angels to Hell. If the elect angels never learned from fallen man's example, for all Eternity they would have had doubts about God's judgement. "Why are Lucifer and our friends all suffering in that Lake of Fire so?"

Now they understand. But, in order to do so... man had to become God's teaching tool for the angels. We who believe in Christ are to be witnesses to the truth. We can understand good and evil because we came into this world with a sin nature. But, elect angels never fell. They have no sin. They had to be taught with a teaching tool. Man is the highest level of teaching tool they are learning from.

After we are resurrected and loving our life in explosive joy that will never end. We will look at the Lord, and say... "I know I suffered at times..." "It was a great plan!" "Thank you for letting me be a part of it!"

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[inquisitor_11]

genez I was making that comment about your posts. Actually, I want to apologise because that was actually a little arrogant of me to say that. That doesn't really change my feelings towards dispensationalism.

However, in answer to your question Daidhaid, everyone knows that Jesus would be an engineer. What other corps could turn water into wine, walk on water, and not only destroy the temple, but re-build it in 3 days time?

"When the waters dried and the earth did appear,
(Its all one says the sapper),
The Lord he created the engineer,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a sapper.

When the flood came along for an extra monsoon,
'Twas Noah constructed the first pontoon,
To the plans of Her Majesty's Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a sapper.


When the tower-o-babel had mixed up men's bat,
Some clever civilian was managing that,
An 'none of Her Majesty's Engineers,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a sapper.

When the children of Israel made bricks without straw,
They were learning the regular work of our Corps,
The work of Her Majesty's Engineers,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a sapper.

-From Rudyard Kipling's Sapper

You can almost smell the espirit d'corps oozing from this post.

 

[jhollas]

Excellent!

 

[daidhaid]

However, in answer to your question Daidhaid, everyone knows that Jesus would be an engineer.
You can almost smell the espirit d'corps oozing from this post.

Yes I can see the logic of your post, and as an engineer he could bless the C-4 and we know the engineers need a lot of that.
I will have to rise to the challenge and trot out some of my favorite Kipling in praise of the rifleman...

As for the genez post it is odd to me how the "guy" knows so much of the mystery and motives of heaven.
Frankly the post reads like cheap sci-fi, or maybe like F. J. Dakes on ecstasy.
I give him credit for spelling, there he is a soaring eagle.

Regardless, the idea of God using us to train angels isn't going to make war less evil.
This angel angle is to bizzare to be useful. We can't possible peer into heaven to see the facts.
We can however look closely at war.
Is war evil? Oh yeah. Is God in favor of war? Oh yeah.
Uh UH,,, that is if the Christian God exists.
If he is out there war is God's tool and it is evil.
A nasty piece of work.

 

[GenemZ]

Regardless, the idea of God using us to train angels isn't going to make war less evil.
This angel angle is to bizzare to be useful. We can't possible peer into heaven to see the facts.
We can however look closely at war.

We? You mean you are born again? You do not sound like you are. You might be. But, you come across as spiritually dead. Not able to comprehend such matters. So, please do not say, "we." You should say...

"I can't possible peer into heaven to see the facts, therefore no one else can." (that would be a more honest approach).

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 niv

On the other hand, "we" who are made spiritually alive at regeneration, need to grow in this gift. Grow in ways that the spiritually dead, intellectual giants, have no means... nor capacity to grasp.

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philippians 1:9 niv

Those who are walking in the Spirit do not take you personally,"Daidhaid." For, "we" know you can not help yourself. After all, "we" might have even taken your same approach while we were yet spiritually dead. Since you are free to jump in and give your opinion, "we" must learn to be tolerant of your inability to comprehend and ignorance on the matter.

Such is life when dealing with the dead.

In case you are wondering. I am not making this up. Jesus would have said the same thing about any unbeliever...


"But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matthew 8:22 niv

See? That speaks of the spiritually dead, burying the physically dead. Jesus would have called you "dead."

"Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You all must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8 niv

And, you can not figure out where the likes of me is really coming from. You try to pin me down, and treat me as if I were just like you. But, you really do not know where I (and others walking in the Spirit) am coming from.

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

"We" know this. You do not. So, we tolerate your prankish approach.

So here, have another Guinness. But if Jesus were here, he could make the best ale you ever tasted. All he would need would be a pint of water to do so. It would be perfect. Everything in perfect balance.


Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[daidhaid]

Let me get this straight officer Genez.
I can't use the pronoun "we" because "we" belongs to you...
Ok let's go with that.
I and everyone else, all of us collectively, none of us can peer into heaven to see the facts.

No one can including you oh spiritualy alive and regenerated one.

It is amusing to think you believe otherwise.
Your just another guy with a hotline to God.
Maybe you should have your own cable channel.
I don't want to drag this out it's off topic anyway.

Maybe this thread is dead, if so it will arise again.
Because the question is never put to rest.
As long as religions justify wars.
There will be people who ask questions, and shake their fists.

 

[inquisitor_11]

It's also been said that I know your deeds, that you have a reputation for being alive, but you are dead . Plus, were going to have to give an account of what we've done with our time. I dunno about you, but spending this life "****ing people up" hardly seems a part of the what Jesus had in mind with the kingdom of heaven.

 

[GenemZ]

Maybe this thread is dead, if so it will arise again.
Because the question is never put to rest.
As long as religions justify wars.
There will be people who ask questions, and shake their fists.

Your argument is baseless. We do not justify war by our faith. It only can justify and strengthen those who must defend themselves against evil, who have faith.

I guess the Twin Towers was our Holy Temple? We are fighting a holy War because our God was attacked? Salman Rushdi's book only said a few things about Allah that offended Muslims, and next thing we know, there was a death warrant put out on his head. You mean we are fighting a holy war like that? Nonsense!

True faith only justifies those who must fight in war to defend their country... but not the war itself. Circumstances justify war. Only religious fanatics justify war via their distorted religion. Turning to one's faith when one must defend oneself in war is normal. Starting a war in the name of your God, is not.

Now that your ball is yarn was just unwound, are you going to try and twist things up again if you can? You act like the Twin Towers was our holy shrine of our national religion. That's crazy. Your argument is baseless.

Grace and , GeneZ

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Yes I can see the logic of your post, and as an engineer he could bless the C-4 and we know the engineers need a lot of that.
I will have to rise to the challenge and trot out some of my favorite Kipling in praise of the rifleman...

As for the genez post it is odd to me how the "guy" knows so much of the mystery and motives of heaven.
Frankly the post reads like cheap sci-fi, or maybe like F. J. Dakes on ecstasy.
I give him credit for spelling, there he is a soaring eagle.

Regardless, the idea of God using us to train angels isn't going to make war less evil.
This angel angle is to bizzare to be useful. We can't possible peer into heaven to see the facts.
We can however look closely at war.
Is war evil? Oh yeah. Is God in favor of war? Oh yeah.
Uh UH,,, that is if the Christian God exists.
If he is out there war is God's tool and it is evil.
A nasty piece of work.

Personally, I think Jesus would be a Chaplain and a Combate medic

So it seems I have been out of the loop lately on this topic... I have a lot of catching up to do...

 

[daidhaid]

It's also been said that I know your deeds, that you have a reputation for being alive, but you are dead . Plus, were going to have to give an account of what we've done with our time. I dunno about you, but spending this life "****ing people up" hardly seems a part of the what Jesus had in mind with the kingdom of heaven.

I believe you see how tightly wound religion and politics are.
There is a great danger in equating the world order with God.
Trying to wind them together leads to deceit.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye workers of iniquity." Matt 7: 22,23


There is a technique known in clandestine operations as the "false flag".
It involves convincing someone that you represent an ideology or nation that they already agree with.
Once you accomplish that you proceed to convince the subject that their loyalties compel them to act.
You facilitate and lead them into actions which actually serve another purpose.
While they believe they are acting patriotically you manipulate them to their great detriment.

for ex:
Bush claims that a great religion, Islam has been hijacked by terrorists. In other words the terrorists try to make their soldiers believe they fight for Allah.
Bush is claiming the people of Islam are falling prey to a false flag.
We have no way of knowing if Bush really believes Islam is a great religion but, it is what he has said many times.

A false flag is also flown over the Iraq war.
When religion steps in to justify a war and the reasons for that war, there should be no doubt as to what and why we fight.
Christians should be able to parse this out, to separate the National political and monetary interests from their Religion.
The Iraq war may serve a purpose and there are reasons why Bush started it.
The evil-doer Saddam is under wraps and the mission is accomplished.
However, all is not well.
The false flag is flying, and our soldiers are serving hidden interests.

The Iraq war's just war status is in doubt all across the world...
We were not in danger from Iraq, we were not consumed by a desire to set the people free.
Pious bleating is leading us deeper and deeper...
Religion as either a reason or a crutch for war in Iraq is a mistake.
All the fundiespeak in the world won't make straight and narrow what was a lie to begin with.


Regardless of a wars justification war itself is an evil thing.
When we resort to evil it should be reluctant and with our eyes wide open.

 

[jhollas]

Yes I can see the logic of your post, and as an engineer he could bless the C-4 and we know the engineers need a lot of that.
I will have to rise to the challenge and trot out some of my favorite Kipling in praise of the rifleman...

Rifleman?! Yes, please do! A Regiment very dear to my heart, the Green Jackets.

 

[GenemZ]

Bush claims that a great religion, Islam has been hijacked by terrorists. In other words the terrorists try to make their soldiers believe they fight for Allah.
Bush is claiming the people of Islam are falling prey to a false flag.
We have no way of knowing if Bush really believes Islam is a great religion but, it is what he has said many times.

A false flag is also flown over the Iraq war.
When religion steps in to justify a war and the reasons for that war, there should be no doubt as to what and why we fight.
Christians should be able to parse this out, to separate the National political and monetary interests from their Religion.
The Iraq war may serve a purpose and there are reasons why Bush started it.

You have not been keeping up with the news?

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20040618_81.html

Jun 18, 7:56 AM (ET)

ASTANA, Kazakhstan (Reuters) - Russia warned the United States on several occasions that Iraq's Saddam Hussein planned "terrorist attacks" on its soil, President Vladimir Putin said Friday.
"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

The Kremlin leader, who was speaking in the Kazakh capital, said Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets."

"This information was conveyed to our American colleagues," he said. He added that Russian intelligence had no proof that Saddam agents had been involved in any particular attack.

Russia had diplomatic relations with Saddam's Iraq and opposed the U.S.-led military offensive that toppled him.

Putin's comments come after President Bush was forced to defend his charge that there had been links between Saddam and al Qaeda that partly justified the U.S.-led invasion

Just because some choose to believe Bush is a liar, does not mean he is one. He has been saying all along that Saddam was a security threat.

As always.... GeneZ

 

[daidhaid]

You have not been keeping up with the news?




Just because some choose to believe Bush is a liar, does not mean he is one. He has been saying all along that Saddam was a security threat.

While Bush may be grateful for Putins assistance in his time of need, I am not convinced it is any more than quid pro quo.
We are silent on Russian issues,trade flourishes and that's all that counts up there at the top.
Putin does Bush and himself a favor and the media buys it, no big surprise..
Next up Lybia will provide more intel on Iraq and oil money will flow freely.
All these ancillary events may distract from the other facts.
Indeed Bush may continue to thrive politicaly.

I'd be very surprised if our political and intelligence apparatus did not have the capacity to manipulate world events to suit their needs. It's what they do best.

 

[GenemZ]

While Bush may be grateful for Putins assistance in his time of need, I am not convinced it is any more than quid pro quo.

The point was, Bush was not lying about the Saddam threat.

Your point?

"I do not give a " _______" about that fact, what about what else I imagine it to be?"

I see... Your car hit a pedestrian. But! It meets emissions!

What has one thing to do with another?

Putin showed that Bush was not lying. Lying, as all the lieberals have been screaming he had been.

Here, have an Adam's Light. GeneZ