Isn't war evil?

[TTSEC]

I find it hard to believe any Christian can endorse war.

Please help me out here.

It is the lesser of two evils.

Look at this example: Say you have a cocharoach and a grasshopper, and you were forced to eat one of your choice. Seeing that teh cocharoach waddles around in and eats poop, and the grasshopper doesn't, you'd pick the grasshopper. Idealy, you wouldn't eat either, but since you don't want to eat the cocharoach, you have to eat the grasshopper.

Similarly, in a situation, where there is great evil. You can either choose to kill the evil, join the evil, coexist with the evil, or let the evil kill you. I dotn konw about you, but personally, I'd choose to kill the evil.

 

[daidhaid]

It is the lesser of two evils.

Look at this example: Say you have a cocharoach and a grasshopper, and you were forced to eat one of your choice. Seeing that teh cocharoach waddles around in and eats poop, and the grasshopper doesn't, you'd pick the grasshopper. Idealy, you wouldn't eat either, but since you don't want to eat the cocharoach, you have to eat the grasshopper.

Similarly, in a situation, where there is great evil. You can either choose to kill the evil, join the evil, coexist with the evil, or let the evil kill you. I dotn konw about you, but personally, I'd choose to kill the evil.

that may sound sensible in a which bug should I eat arguement.
However if your trying to emulate Jesus of Nazareth you need to consider what he would do.
Look closely at war and at Jesus decide from that point.


War may indeed be the lesser of evils, and war may be thrust in your face.
Or war may just be the means to a goal.
still doesn't mean it is something the Historical Jesus would have done.

Maybe the question is easier to decide after seeing war close up and letting some time go by.
When you see what happens with your own eyes, and then you watch the justifications unravel.
Then it's hard to hold to the party line.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

Let me see...so when your bible says: "go and make all people my children" you just igore it, joins the army and KILLS instead???? What would Cristh do?

 

[WarSong]

that may sound sensible in a which bug should I eat arguement.
However if your trying to emulate Jesus of Nazareth you need to consider what he would do.
Look closely at war and at Jesus decide from that point.


War may indeed be the lesser of evils, and war may be thrust in your face.
Or war may just be the means to a goal.
still doesn't mean it is something the Historical Jesus would have done.

Maybe the question is easier to decide after seeing war close up and letting some time go by.
When you see what happens with your own eyes, and then you watch the justifications unravel.
Then it's hard to hold to the party line.

Didn't God order the Jews to go and attack a people? I'm sorry, I'm being way to general and I'll go research the specifics, but do you know what I'm referencing to?

 

[SwedishBilbo]

Yes, but we arent jews (nothing wrong with that), and shouldnt christians obey the bible? Joining the army instead of becoming (for example) a missonary seems to me to not be a christian thing to do. Im not against the army, just against christians joining it instead of doing things christians should do. German soldiers had a message on theire belts during ww2 it said: "got mit uns" = Go with us, iI don´t think that a loving God could ever suport going out to kill instead of saving.

 

[jhollas]

Even if the death of the enemy results in hundreds, maybe thousands of lives saved in the long run? Consider the threat of nuclear war. Should we not, as Christians, try to protect the world against such a devastation?
I know I'm being extremely general, but it's hard to be specific with somebody like Bilbo. Sorry mate, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

 

[Katydid]

So now let me ask you SwedishBilbo, when terrorists run airplanes into your country and kill thousands of your citizens and tear families apart, make your entire country scared to leave their homes, will you be running to be a missionary to those terrorists or will you want a military to protect you. To ensure that this doesn't happen again. Would you be running out with your Bible in hand begging them to listen before they blow themselves and thousands of your friends and family up, or will you be hiding behind the soldiers begging them to protect you at all costs. No soldier in our military that I know likes to kill other people, many have never considered it until now. But, they take on the responsibility of protecting our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. That is an awesome responsibility, and the few that take that on are getting trampled on by the very people they protect. Biblically, in the old testament, it states that every male able to, will be in the military. They were called forth to stand with the military. If G-d is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday, then He even now, still believes that at times war is necessary. Do not judge until you have lived through what our country has survived. Don't call our president a "war monger" until you see how your leaders would react in his position. OK now, just so you know, I am not upset writing this and my tone isn't harsh. I am actually pleading for you to show some understanding. I hope you can at some point understand why we do what we must do.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

1. I have nothing at all against the military
2. I DO have something against christians beeing in the army, nothing in the bible says christians should do that.
3. Im glad we all have an army, the post is abouth christians in the army
4. War is never nececary, christians WENT TO PRISON so that they shouldnt be forced to kill (history is full of examples).
5. God orderd christians to make disicples so people could CHANGE = end of terorism. If all palestians became born again christian would they seek death as martyrs for islam? Dont think so.
6. When does jesus say "join the army and kill thy felloe man?"
7. If you drop a bomb on a house and kill 100 terorists (fine with me) and just terorist die, then MAYBY I can understand that a cristian could do that in order to protect others BUT if 1 (one) inocent dies....well that soldier is damend forever. To shed inocent blood (yes even in war) is posible the worst thing a christian could do (at least to my understanding).
8. The post about Bush was just beacouse the man makes me angry, don´t like him, but your rigth that comment don´t belong in this forum.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

"Would you be running out with your Bible in hand begging them to listen before they blow themselves and thousands of your friends and family up" If you belive in the power in the name of Jesus, yes I would. (But I leave that part to you religious guys) A true christian could realease the power in prayer and stop them, actualy a minister in norway stoped a bankrober by shouting "I rebuke you in the nemae of Jesus" The rober went still like a statue and people could take his gun, didn´t move until the police came.
Sp who do you trust (if youre a christian that is) Gods power or the power of the U.s forces? If your not religious then the answer is obvoius.

 

[Katydid]

1. That those engaged in warfare shall not fear their enemies nor be panic-stricken by them during battle (Deut. 3:22, 7:21, 20:3) (negative).
2. To anoint a special kohein (to speak to the soldiers) in a war (Deut. 20:2) (affirmative). . See Kohein.
3. In a permissive war (as distinguished from obligatory ones), to observe the procedure prescribed in the Torah (Deut. 20:10) (affirmative).
4. Not to keep alive any individual of the seven Canaanite nations (Deut. 20:16) (negative).
5. To exterminate the seven Canaanite nations from the land of Israel (Deut. 20:17) (affirmative).
6. Not to destroy fruit trees (wantonly or in warfare) (Deut. 20:19-20) (CCN191).
7. To deal with a beautiful woman taken captive in war in the manner prescribed in the Torah (Deut. 21:10-14) (affirmative).
8. Not to sell a beautiful woman, (taken captive in war) (Deut. 21:14) (negative).
9. Not to degrade a beautiful woman (taken captive in war) to the condition of a bondwoman (Deut. 21:14) (negative).
10. Not to offer peace to the Ammonites and the Moabites before waging war on them, as should be done to other nations (Deut. 23:7) (negative).
11. That anyone who is unclean shall not enter the Camp of the Levites (Deut. 23:11) (according to the Talmud, in the present day this means the Temple mount) (CCN193).
12. To have a place outside the camp for sanitary purposes (Deut. 23:13) (affirmative).
13. To keep that place sanitary (Deut. 23:14-15) (affirmative).
14. Always to remember what Amalek did (Deut. 25:17) (CCA76).
15. That the evil done to us by Amalek shall not be forgotten (Deut. 25:19) (CCN194).
16. To destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19) (CCA77).

These are in a list of the 613 Commandments from the Old Testament. These are the ones regarding war. Now, reading these, you cannot honestly believe that nowhere in the Bible is war condoned. On top of the fact that in Deuteronomy 24:5 there are instructions that a man married less than a year is free from the obligation of serving in the military.

 

[daidhaid]

Didn't God order the Jews to go and attack a people? I'm sorry, I'm being way to general and I'll go research the specifics, but do you know what I'm referencing to?

Yeah he did and I double dog dare you to read all those passages read them slow and on your own.
Some truly vile stuff was ordered by God read all about it.
Then ponder The message of Jesus.
Then look at religion
then shake your head and walk away, at least that's what I did.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

Nothing from the new testament thou. New rules there, turn the other cheek, "You have heard an eye for an eye, I say when your enemy hit you on the cheek, turn then the other cheek" Thats what Jesus said. Jesus gave his disiples order to "go out and make all humans his diciples", thats whats christians are suposed to do, to join the army is to waste your calling as a christian. Funny that you guys always have to go to the old testament, how about stoning children that are nosy against theire parents? Says so in the old testament... How about not letting women enter church men they have there period? Says so in the old testament...and the list goes on....the NEW testament says : "I bring you something new".
So did you guys turn the other cheek when someone slaped you...

 

[Katydid]

You know if someone slapped me, then yes, I would turn the other cheek. But, noone slapped me. THEY BLEW UP MY FRIENDS, MY FAMILY, MY HOME. So, no, I don't think the two of those even come close to comparison. So let me ask you, do you ever read the old testament. Isn't there wisdom to be found there? Not to mention the fact that Yeshua (Jesus) stated very plainly "not one jot or tittle" will be taken out of the law. We have laws instituted by our governments that prevent the complete observing of the laws in the Old Testament. We also have people believing that it is of no use whatsoever, but that doesn't mean that all of us feel that way. And, I will be sure to inform my husband that he is "wasting his calling as a Christian". I am sure he will appreciate knowing that protecting not only his country but yours from terrorists and dictators is such a waste of his time.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

And yes, I belive he will go to hell for killing people. Read the bible again. "hate thy enemies" Your not a christian and neither are your husband if hes in uniform.

 

[Sailor's Wife]

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[Glaz]

And yes, I belive he will go to hell for killing people. Read the bible again. "hate thy enemies" Your not a christian and neither are your husband if hes in uniform.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Then again, tell a lie and your just as bad in Gods Eyes. He does not having a sliding scale on sin.

 

[SwedishBilbo]

No, he just likes to kill arabs....

 

[SwedishBilbo]

"I think we're looking at a TROLL here" so youre looking into a mirror rigth now?

 

[Sailor's Wife]

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[SwedishBilbo]

So you hate me?