Islamphobia

[chelsea89]

I haven't seen a post saying Christians are jerks. Just ones saying they should practice what they preach.

 

[peaceful soul]

Not defending any of these hate groups, from either side of the issue, but have you looked at the example of Muslim countries throughout the world? Do they provide an example of religious toerance and peaceful coexistence?

That does make coexisting peacefully very difficult if not impossible.

 

[Zaac]

Like Judaism. And Buddhism, and Hinduism and Mormonism and a multitude of other belief systems. Why do much focus on Islam?

Because someone mentioned Islam and its 1.5 billion adherents.

 

[Zaac]

Uh, Takiri is a Buddhist.

I know.

Frankly, I think Jesus would be shocked at what you are spouting in his name.

Frankly I'm not surprised at your shock. Non Christians are always shocked at the things I say.

Paul is not God.

I didn't say he was.

Now would you be the one sending me these anonymous PMs?

 

[Zaac]

Why not? The fruits of the spirit are there for everyone to observe.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

(King James Bible, Galatians)

The fruits of the Spirit are borne of the Spirit. If you don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then you don't have the fruit.

So again, those of you who bow at the feet of false gods can save your counseling cause none of it is to be received from Christians.

Nobody is seeing this from you, Zaac.

You don't even recognize that you're incapable of having the fruits of the Spirit so again I'm not too concerned about what those who lack the Holy Spirit see or think they see.

 

[SanFrank]

If a Christian had converted to Islam back in 16th century Europe, you would most likely have been burned at the stake rather than beheaded. As for the jaziyah on non-Muslims I don't know of a single Muslim country which currently collects that tax. And rape laws in Christian Latin America are at least as bad as anything in the Islamic world.

I could post some photos of beheadings but (in addition to not being allowed) somehow I don't think that would alter your biased opinion. There are islamic communities in pakistan and asia where the youth are anxious to behead a christian or die for your 'allah'.

 

[SanFrank]

Lol just Lol no one knows for sure or don't you think there would just be an us and them scenario not thousands of religions? It would be this who choose to believe and those who don't yet there are billions of people who believe differently because they were taught to or because they went on a journey of exploration and found one faith to hold more truth for them than another. face it Christianity was at it's peak in the dark ages because people were in need of the hope Christianity offered and it's interesting to note that when Christianity gained the most growth is when people couldn't read and knew only what priests and the church taught them. Now that there is knowledge Christianity is losing numbers. But Islam is gaining numbers...

You say you are not sure of islam. You also seem to be siding with a religion based on the number of its followers.

This pattern that you demonstrate confirms my long-held view of how the world comes to fall for a deception that Paul spoke about. It's "follow the herd" mentality that islam is so well-formulated for. It was almost made with that in mind.

This is true: Mathew 7, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

 

[SanFrank]

zaac, all you are doing is comparing what you believe to be true with the statement made of another Faith - and as they differ from your own belief, they are declared false. In others words, simply, I'm right, they say something different, therefore they are wrong.

So no, you DO NOT know any such thing.

And if you appeal to your own "experience" of the truth of your own Faith, well, those of other Faiths appeal to their experience, which they take as authentic.

We should all seek to grow, not just in allegiance to creed, but in the opening to grace, where all is gift.

That would be obvious if an apologist confronted a buddhist but he is placing attention on islam, a religion whose roots are found in christianity. That makes islam open for fact-finding and debate and allows the christian to make a statement of faith debunking islam.

 

[SanFrank]

Also Islam teaches absolute truths. One God, five pillars, 6 things you have to absolutely believe in to be Muslim. There are 39,000 sects to Christianity which is the true one? Islam has a few sects but differ in things that aren't vital. For instance women wearing hijab or the abaya, people may make a big deal out of it but it's not of primary importance, it's a secondary notion, Christianity differs in core beliefs between sects. Like I asked a Christian pastor if you are in one spirit why so many conflicts? Even between born again Christians, once saved always saved or not, signs for today or a thing of the past? You would think these kinds of things would be set in stone among at least the born again Christians.

I'm guessing the 20 to 100 sunni muslims that died just today at the hands of a shiite, felt the same way.

 

[chelsea89]

I've done a few studies on religion. It's not based on numbers at all but rationale, my rationale may be different than yours, it doesn't mean that I'm ignorant. I posted the numbers to put into light the fact that more and more people are turning to that rationale. And have you seen eternity, scientifically observed it, or do you absolutely I some other form know it? That's what I meant no one can know for sure. For me, trust me, it's maddening. Believe it or not I LOVE God. I pray semi constantly if only in my own thoughts narrating to Him my thoughts, feelings, and frustrations and paigns. I draw on my personal experiences of life ( which I should just write out my testimony here even if it's not Christian) so things are in light of why I believe what I do and don't have to explain it a million times here. Questioning my motives for my beliefs won't in anyway make me rethink them. It'll make me question you rather.

 

[chelsea89]

I'm guessing the 20 to 100 sunni muslims that died just today at the hands of a shiite, felt the same way.

Christians have had their time in history also. A minority are representing the mJority in a volatile region that has been unstable since it's inception. If it were a freethinking society I'm sure this murders would be less, but it's not and Muslims here, at least at my Masjid, don't agree with any of the violence in that region. The Quran speaks against murder of innocence and only allows for war or jihad in instances of unprovoked assault to defend ourselves and there are explicit rules for dealing with prisoners of war. If you're really ignorant enough to believe that the majority of Muslims want to kill people you're a little sick. I want to instill values in my children and learn who God is and I want to have a life of peace and helping other people.

 

[smaneck]

The fruits of the Spirit are borne of the Spirit. If you don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then you don't have the fruit.

And what is your excuse for lacking in these things?

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

(King James Bible, Galatians)

You don't even recognize that you're incapable of having the fruits of the Spirit so again I'm not too concerned about what those who lack the Holy Spirit see or think they see.

What I recognize is that there is a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Catholic and a crypto-Lutheran here who all exhibit those qualities yet you do not.

 

[steve_bakr]

I agree. Anyone who thinks that Muslims are trying to peacefully coexist with non-Muslims might be just a little naive.

TRUE PRACTICING Muslims aren't trying to peacefully coexist with anyone but other Muslims.

Really? The Mosque where I live is interested in interfaith issues and held a memorial service for a Rabbi after his passing on account of the friendship that exists between the Muslim and Jewish community where I live.

 

[smaneck]

I could post some photos of beheadings but (in addition to not being allowed) somehow I don't think that would alter your biased opinion.

As I don't suppose the genocide carried out by Christians in Serbia or Rwanda will change your opinion.

Nearly all of them have occurred in failed states like Somalia. We all live on the very edges of barbarism. When states collapse it is easy to fall into it entirely.

 

[smaneck]

Frankly I'm not surprised at your shock. Non Christians are always shocked at the things I say.

I didn't say I was shocked, I said Jesus would be shocked. In fact I think he would say, "I don't know you."

Now would you be the one sending me these anonymous PMs?

I don't PM people unless they contact me first.

 

[smaneck]

I'm guessing the 20 to 100 sunni muslims that died just today at the hands of a shiite, felt the same way.

Have I missed something? Last I heard it was Sunnis killing Shi'ites.

 

[SanFrank]

I don't know how to work all of this quoting stuff or I would try to organize this response according to the questions that I'm answering. So bare with me as I just simply reply in the form I know how to.

Sure thing.

First, my comparison to the EDL to American Skinheads was exactly what I meant it to be. Like I said in my original text, from what footage I saw, the EDL reminded me of what I have seen from American Skinhead rallies. I am in no way an expert on either group, I simply went off of the footage and how the story was told. I sympathize with all human beings who I feel may be persecuted, misunderstood and mistreated. Does that mean that I sympathize with Islam and Muslims, YES. Those that fit in the category that I just described. I do not believe for 1 minute that ALL Muslims are 1 certain way. I do not believe in the false teachings of the religion of Islam but I believe in fair treatment of all human beings despite their personal beliefs, even if some of those believers don't feel that way about me.

I could agree with your highlighted statement. As a christian, we should give everyone (from moderates to murdering muslims) a chance to repent. However, applying fairness is like a lamb asking a lion to sit still. The reason christians are losing ground and being superseded by muslims is according to G*d's word, "all nations must come against israel." All nations means its peoples are against the truth or followers of a false religion.
Joel 3 "I will gather all the nations and bring them to the Valley of Judgment. There I will judge them for all they have done to my people. They have scattered the Israelites in foreign countries and divided Israel, my land."

I don't think it is fair to compare the EDL to Islamic Countries that have been rooted and grounded in their false teachings for centuries and the extreme beliefs that they act out. What you can compare is the fact that each group firmly believes in what they do and are willing to make sacrifices for the freedom of that belief. If the EDL was as established in years as Islam, I'm sure that there would be at least 1 extreme comparison to make since they are both based in an ideology that it has to be 1 way and have dedicated believers.

Hypothetical what-if's cannot be applied to real life.

Any group such as the EDL that educates the public (non-christian or christian) on islam, at least awakens the public to islam's horrors. It gets to them before muslims' lies do.

The show that I watched even showed the clip where the EDL refuted their association with the individual that shot and killed over 30 teens at that Summer camp, even though they showed evidence of communication from that individual with EDL leaders just days before. What's the difference from the EDL not claiming this guy who shared their beliefs from Muslims not claiming Osama Bin Laden as a true Muslim although he himself believes he is a Muslim? What I see in that is that no matter what you will always have some that have an extreme view of what they believe in. Because of that, I don't think that it is fair to group the whole based on others actions.

I would understand your point if osama was the only muslim who mass-murdered. However, just today, 1/2/12, a 7yr old boy was killed by a bomber in pakistan, and at least five were killed when fundamentalist muslims threw a grenade onto the dance floor of a bar serving alcohol, then shot those trying to flee. Every day, muslims are killing others.

There are peaceful Muslims just as much as there are extreme terrorist minded Muslims that are out for blood. Even though the EDL stands firm that they are not a violent group, I bet there is at least 1 member that has violence on the mind when it comes to their cause. I don't think that 1 members violent action should overshadow the cause and purpose of the EDL. JMO. I do understand that the majority of people that do not agree with Islam being peaceful feel that the number is greater than 1. My response to that is even if 99 out of the 100 Muslims are extremist, that 1 still should not be denied their basic human rights of respect and safety from others that don't share that 1 individuals views.

Gauging the future actions of muslims should be based on historical evidence. When push comes to shove, the most moderate muslim will become an 'osama' because its religion permits the killing of kafir (non-believers). Even moderate muslims are labeled kafir.

If I went to a Mosque and asked that question, I would also have to go to the community centers where groups like the EDL gather and ask there too because it is not only extreme Muslims that refuse to peacefully coexist.

Let me know what you find out.

For the record, I am an American, born and raised and do not know what day to day life is like in any other country. I am a Veteran that has had tours in other countries but I still wouldn't use that to try to base my opinion off since the geological location and culture is not something that I was raised with so it didn't shape who I am as a person. The person that I am believes in Jesus Christ and all of His teachings and that includes love for others that do not share my beliefs.
Mrs. Richard posting on my iPad using CF

I pray from all muslims to come to know the Lord, even as I do. I pray for EDL to educate the public in non-threatening manners.

 

[SanFrank]

I've done a few studies on religion. It's not based on numbers at all but rationale, my rationale may be different than yours, it doesn't mean that I'm ignorant. I posted the numbers to put into light the fact that more and more people are turning to that rationale. And have you seen eternity, scientifically observed it, or do you absolutely I some other form know it? That's what I meant no one can know for sure. For me, trust me, it's maddening. Believe it or not I LOVE God. I pray semi constantly if only in my own thoughts narrating to Him my thoughts, feelings, and frustrations and paigns. I draw on my personal experiences of life ( which I should just write out my testimony here even if it's not Christian) so things are in light of why I believe what I do and don't have to explain it a million times here. Questioning my motives for my beliefs won't in anyway make me rethink them. It'll make me question you rather.

You only confirm what you said before. If your rationale is muslim rationale, you converted due to several factors including but not limited to: unfounded fear for a god that does not exist, "everybody else is doing it", attraction to a structured religion such as found with the 5 pillars, a seemingly (yet false) logical religious construct with betterment of life for both self and family.

Christians have had their time in history also. A minority are representing the mJority in a volatile region that has been unstable since it's inception. If it were a freethinking society I'm sure this murders would be less, but it's not and Muslims here, at least at my Masjid, don't agree with any of the violence in that region. The Quran speaks against murder of innocence and only allows for war or jihad in instances of unprovoked assault to defend ourselves and there are explicit rules for dealing with prisoners of war. If you're really ignorant enough to believe that the majority of Muslims want to kill people you're a little sick. I want to instill values in my children and learn who God is and I want to have a life of peace and helping other people.

So now its islam's turn? What comes after islam?

 

[SanFrank]

Have I missed something? Last I heard it was Sunnis killing Shi'ites.

My mistake; but somehow that reality doesn't sink in for you.

Mr Bakr was kind enough to answer some tough questions and recognized that theological differences exist between the qur'an and the bible. I choose not to bow to a god that differs from the G*d of the Bible. I do not understand how you do, knowing those differences exist. It's a question of being true to yourself and I would judge harshly those who choose to look the other way for selfish reasons. (good for everybody that I'm not god).

 

[smaneck]

S
I would understand your point if osama was the only muslim who mass-murdered. However, just today, 1/2/12, a 7yr old boy was killed by a bomber in pakistan,

You do realize that US drones are killing Pakistani children on a regular basis and that this is one of the reasons why there is so much tension between the two countries?

When push comes to shove, the most moderate muslim will become an 'osama' because its religion permits the killing of kafir (non-believers).

Nonsense.

Even moderate muslims are labeled kafir.

The groups who pronounce takfir against fellow Muslims show themselves to be heretics. This is what the Kharijite heresy taught and both Sunnis and Shi'ites rightly condemned it.

I pray for EDL to educate the public in non-threatening manners.

Football hooligans are not known for non-threatening manners.