ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD

[expos4ever]

Do you ignore the news or just not care? ISIS has had that as their modus operandi for years. The Saudi do the same, they are just a bit quieter about it.

Why can't you simply admit you over-stepped?

You made this statement:

Moslems say "do what I tell you to do or I will chop your head off".

This is a generalization - you are basically ascribing a characteristic to all, or at least most, Muslims.

You have been asked to support this statement - to provide some evidence that this rather alarming claim has evidence behind it.

And you are now effectively side-stepping your obligation to support your claim.

We are not talking about ISIS! You made a statement about Muslims (I added the bold):

Moslems say "do what I tell you to do or I will chop your head off".

Why can't you concede that you engaged in a little exaggeration here. I can understand that you think I am being contrary by pointing this out, but I think it is vital to avoid making negative characterizations of great swaths of humanity that are not supported by at least some evidence.

 

[expos4ever]

I missed the teaching from Christ on spreading the Gospel by sword.

To the extent that "mainstream" Muslim believe in the use of the "sword" to win converts, yes, there is a huge problem. But do we really know how widespread such a belief is among Muslims?

We Christians generally claim to accept that the Old and New Testaments are the inspired word of God. As you know, the Old Testament is rife with genocide and other violent atrocities, many directly "ordered" by God.

That is a big problem that we Christians have to deal with - how do we reconcile this with the much different picture we see in Jesus?

The reality is that even if we have not come up with an answer to this question, we have effectively (I suggest) come up with all sorts of reasons to effectively "expunge" all that genocide and violence stuff from our model of how to act in the world.

In short, we play a little game with ourselves. We say we believe in the God of the Old Testament, but we would recoil in horror at the thought of participating in the divinely sanctioned violence we read about there.

Perhaps mainstream Muslims do the same thing? It certainly seems that, with the exception of extremists, there is no obvious effort to convert the world at the point of the sword.

 

[Thursday]

<staff edit>

No, Christians are no trying to kill infidels.

 

[Thursday]

Perhaps mainstream Muslims do the same thing? It certainly seems that, with the exception of extremists, there is no obvious effort to convert the world at the point of the sword.

What percentage of Muslims support violence to advance their faith, in your opinion?

 

[expos4ever]

What percentage of Muslims support violence to advance their faith, in your opinion?

I have no idea. But it worries me that some people seem to think their opinion about this matters - as opposed to any actual data based on surveys etc. It would be irresponsible to, for example, ban immigrants from "Muslim" nations based on an "opinion".

 

[Thursday]

I have no idea. But it worries me that some people seem to think their opinion about this matters - as opposed to any actual data based on surveys etc. It would be irresponsible to, for example, ban immigrants from "Muslim" nations based on an "opinion".

It does matter, and there have been many surveys done. You should better inform yourself because this is serious.

FYI:

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified.

So let's use 8% just to be conservative.

That's 80 million people worldwide if we are being conservative. Shouldn't we work to keep those people out of America?

 

[Armoured]

It does matter, and there have been many surveys done. You should better inform yourself because this is serious.

FYI:

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified.

So let's use 8% just to be conservative.

That's 80 million people worldwide if we are being conservative. Shouldn't we work to keep those people out of America?

How do the same questions asked of Christians turn out? Bit unreasonable to compare the two groups without comparing the two groups.

 

[expos4ever]

So let's use 8% just to be conservative.

That's 80 million people worldwide if we are being conservative. Shouldn't we work to keep those people out of America?

Thanks for providing data - now we are getting somewhere. I agree that if the survey finding is indeed accurate and the survey was done properly (and I have no reason to doubt this), then, yes, there is a problem.

What should be done about that is another matter. When you place a blanket ban on countries you may well keep some troublemakers out. But you also keep out those innocents who are in great need and are fleeing such terrorism. I trust you know where Jesus stands on the treatment of those people. And you also send a symbolic message of religious / ethnic intolerance. Let me be clear: even if it is not "fair" that people interpret the ban that way, you need to be aware that these people will see the ban as further justification to see America as an enemy. And that puts you at greater risk.

And another thing. A huge fraction of Americans right in your country believe something else that is arguably much more dangerous to you than Muslim terror:

They believe that we do not need to do something about global warming.

Since I think it is clear that these people pose a more serious threat than Islamic extremists, why are you not deporting all those people?

I am aware the situations are not exactly analogous, but I think there is still a point here. It is highly suspicious when one particular "group" (Muslims) are singled out when there are many other threats that deserve equal concern.

 

[Thursday]

What should be done about that is another matter. When you place a blanket ban on countries you may well keep some troublemakers out. But you also keep out those innocents who are in great need and are fleeing such terrorism. I trust you know where Jesus stands on the treatment of those people. And you also send a symbolic message of religious / ethnic intolerance. Let me be clear: even if it is not "fair" that people interpret the ban that way, you need to be aware that these people will see the ban as further justification to see America as an enemy. And that puts you at greater risk.

It is not a blanket ban. It is a temporary hold until we can review our vetting procedures and make sure that we aren't letting in terrorists or their allies.

The FBI has stated that they can't guarantee that we are sufficiently screening the refugees at this time.

<staff edit>

Trump's plan makes sense and it is not that big of a deal.

 

[Thursday]

<staff edit>

Reality:

The plague of global terrorism

 

[Armoured]

Reality:

The plague of global terrorism

And?

No one's suggesting terrorism isn't a thing, just that it's a tiny minority of Muslims interested in conducting it.

 

[Armoured]

Reality:

The plague of global terrorism

Reality
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mu...0-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

 

[zoidar]

That's what they are telling us will happen. Why do we keep ignoring them?

Islam will dominate the world - Google Search

Yeah, yeah! Whatever... It's easy to be afraid in these last days. Things happen, but Jesus has allready won, and nobody can change that. Try not to worry, and instead pray for people, for muslims that they will know the real Jesus. They allready believe in him as a prophet. "All" they have to understand is that he is the Messiah.

 

[Thursday]

Yeah, yeah! Whatever... It's easy to be afraid in these last days. Things happen, but Jesus has allready won, and nobody can change that. Try not to worry, and instead pray for people, for muslims that they will know the real Jesus. They allready believe in him as a prophet. "All" they have to understand is that he is the Messiah.

We still need to make policy decisions based on what's best for Americans.

The primary task of the government is the security of the citizens. It's easy to say not to worry when you aren't the one responsible for people's lives.

 

[zoidar]

Sometimes I worry too man, it's just that we have to find courage and security in Christ, that is what i meant. It's better to transform worry into action, like prayer.

 

[Armoured]

Which ones? How many terrorists do you think we should allow into our borders?

None. How many terrorists do you think disguise themselves as refugees to go through a two year vetting process?

 

[redleghunter]

We Christians generally claim to accept that the Old and New Testaments are the inspired word of God. As you know, the Old Testament is rife with genocide and other violent atrocities, many directly "ordered" by God.

That is a big problem that we Christians have to deal with - how do we reconcile this with the much different picture we see in Jesus?

The reality is that even if we have not come up with an answer to this question, we have effectively (I suggest) come up with all sorts of reasons to effectively "expunge" all that genocide and violence stuff from our model of how to act in the world.

I can see the influence of the Muslim and atheist information campaign in your comments.

Frankly, as Christians we do not need to reconcile anything. Here's why from two perspectives.

The first is the answer to the simplistic argument from atheist Muslim apologists and Muslims. The simplistic argument deserves a simplistic yet factual response:

Let's examine your argument.

The Qur'an speaks of violence but the Bible does too, so who are we to judge? Did I get the overall point correct?

Let's examine.

First point I would make is either the Qur'an is truth or the Bible is truth. They both cannot be truthful. Our God is not a God of confusion. So either Islam is the truth or Christianity is the truth. Can't be both.

With that first point let's examine your overall point. That is God commands wars and executions in the OT Mosaic theocratic covenant. Commands He specifically gives to oust the nations which He is judging. Israel was the physical sword of the judgment from God. Limited in scope and location.

Now the Qur'an commands infidels who do not submit to Islam be killed. We see that in action since the 7th century AD. Still going on. Not good...total disaster.

Based on your rationale, we Christians should not be poking Muslims in the eye. Their book has violence, our book has violence...end of story.

Not so. Here's why. Let's look at Islam first.

There were two periods in which Muhammad wrote the texts of the Qur'an. The Meccan period and the Medina period. The former being a time where Muhammad and his followers were in the minority out of power, the latter being the period where Muhammad became a military commander and chief governing figure.

During the Mecca period is where we get all the verses of peace, tolerance and love towards Christians, Jews and even pagans. Muhammad was trying to build bridges and expand his influence under the radar. He needed peace to grow, therefore his writings were peaceful. Once he conquered Medina, he became the warrior governor. Muhammad's writings then became much less tolerant...much less I'm here to tell you. He and his followers waged war to spread the religion and conquer territory. This Medina mentality kept going until hundreds of years later Spain, yes a Christian Western European nation, was conquered for Islam.

So we have what starts out peaceful and nice sounding then turn into a violent religion. From peace to war in very little time...very little.

If you read the Qur'an it is not in chronological order so you have the happy peaceful writings intermingled in the violent texts. Here's some scholarship on such:

In practice, Quranic abrogation results in a known doctrinal footprint that subordinates the milder, more moderate verses of the Quran from the Meccan period of revelation, to the later and violent verses of the Medina period. Islamic law is substantially derived from the Medinan period. Where a conflict exists, anything said during the Medinan period overrules anything on the same subject in the Meccan. And anything said in the later part of the Medinan period either overrules or controls anything said in the earlier part.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/08/the_two_faces_of_islam.html

More at the link above..much more I recommend everyone read it...very important.

So now we compare our book the Bible.

Yes the theocratic nation of Israel was commanded to wage war in Canaan. The command came directly from YHWH (Who by the way is never mentioned in the Qur'an...never).

Ok here's the difference. We are Christians. The theocratic nation of Israel and Judah are gone. Temple destroyed in 70AD. All gone for now. Here's the clincher. Jesus never commanded His followers to kill, wage war or stone people to death for their sins. Never ever...We are under the New Covenant not the old and if you want to put YHWH on trial for Old Covenant commands under a theocracy He instituted?...don't recommend it, don't do it, very unwise.

Let's now break it down according to the simplistic assertions of some groups, however applying our analysis above:

The Qur'an goes from happy and tolerant and then changed to violent religion.

The Bible was violent in the OT but then Jesus Christ comes to earth and tells us His message is for all humankind. Not violent at all, Jesus preaches loving our enemies...pray for them. Jesus is the Prince of Peace. He dies for us and rises again. Not conquest. This message from Jesus Christ is beautiful....very beautiful.

Islam went from happy campers to violence. Not good....

There you have it.

....Perspective #2 "Mature Christian response to fellow Christians" to follow.

 

[Thursday]

Sometimes I worry too man, it's just that we have to find courage and security in Christ, that is what i meant. It's better to transform worry into action, like prayer.

We still have to have a government policy.

 

[Thursday]

None. How many terrorists do you think disguise themselves as refugees to go through a two year vetting process?

So if we don't want any terrorists getting through, that means we have to be very selective about who we let.

Where's the disagreement?

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Popular media makes this threat of extreme Islam seem like such a new and huge deal, but it is the same old story. The esteem held for the United States Marine Corp. as a loyal and daring crew can trace its history back to the early 1800 and its battle against Islamic Extremists turned pirates on the Barbary coast. Fast Forward 200 years later and it is the same battle, except now it is moving to our shores.

History has shown over centuries and centuries of record, that this world will not be ruled by force. Rome failed, The Old Russian Empire Fell, Germany failed twice , Napolean failed. This world is too vast, and oppositions too numerous, to be controlled by fear and threat.

We look at Christianity, like it means something to carry that title, without the actions that go with it. But people calling themselves Christians have done exactly what extreme islamists are doing today. It wasn't too long ago, potentially in some of our lifetimes, that Catholic and Protestant extremists in Ireland were doing the same things in the name of their religion as radical islamists. Shootings, bombings, assassinations, all in the name of religion, but the fact remains they are small populations giving a bad name to the collective group.

There are many muslims that want nothing to do with that extremist view of their religion, just as I am sure there are many Catholics and Protestants that would cringe when reading headlines from a few decades ago in Ireland. But to answer the op that small population is not going to overcome the world.