Islam Pagan

[Arthra]

Jonathan wrote:


"If a person is poor and can't afford do Hajj, will he go to hell then?"


My understanding is that those who have it in their capability go on Haj at least once in their lifetime... Women are not so obligated as men...

So it doesn't mean they will go to hell if they can't go...

Actually pilgrimage is something you will find in Judaism, Christianity and Islam and the Baha'i Faith as well.. We go to different sites of course.

Having been on pilgrimage to the Holy Land myself it was a healing and an inspiration and each pilgrimage is unique and special...and something you will always cherish and go back to in your mind and soul.

 

[Jonathan95]

Jonathan wrote:


"If a person is poor and can't afford do Hajj, will he go to hell then?"


My understanding is that those who have it in their capability go on Haj at least once in their lifetime... Women are not so obligated as men...

So it doesn't mean they will go to hell if they can't go...

Actually pilgrimage is something you will find in Judaism, Christianity and Islam and the Baha'i Faith as well.. We go to different sites of course.

Having been on pilgrimage to the Holy Land myself it was a healing and an inspiration and each pilgrimage is unique and special...and something you will always cherish and go back to in your mind and soul.

I see, yes. But not obligatory in Christianity. Don't believe it is in Judaism either.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I see, yes. But not obligatory in Christianity. Don't believe it is in Judaism either.

Technically the Torah instructs all Jewish males to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem during the Three Pilgrimage Feasts: Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot.

I assume given just how widespread and global the Jewish community is since the Diaspora that this isn't quite so literally necessitated. I'm not actually familiar and hope Loammi can fill me on this (or if I've gotten it completely wrong from the get go).

There is no mandate that Christians take pilgrimage journeys, though it's been standard practice among those who are able to visit Christian holy sites, not just in the Holy Land, but all over the world. Pilgrimages to Rome have been common in the West for centuries, to visit the tombs of Peter and Paul. Still common even among non-Roman Catholic Christians to visit Rome to see the ancient Catacombs where many martyrs lay buried. Those Catholics who accept the various Marian apparitions as real (my understanding is that Catholic leadership has no official position on these one way or another) sometimes visit those locations where these took place such as Fatima in Portugal or Guadalupe in Argentina.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Wyssam]

If a person is poor and can't afford do Hajj, will he go to hell then?

I don't see the Power of God manifesting, at Hajj, at Kaaba, shouldn't it be? Since there are so many Muslims there during Hajj?

However, at Christian crusades, revivals and conferences. Even during worship. People are healed. People fall to the floor <Power of God. People get filled with tears. People are delivered from demon possession.

I don't see such Joy in Islam.

I thought I answered to this Allah says in Surat Al-Baqarah [verse 286] -
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity.

Moreover the verse 97 in Sura 3 Al Imran
(Shakir translation)
In it are clear signs, the standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it shall be secure, and pilgrimage to the House is incumbent upon men for the sake of Allah, (upon) every one who is able to undertake the journey to it; and whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, above any need of the worlds.
(Dr. Ghali translation)
Therein are supremely evident signs: the station of Ibrahim. (Abraham) And whoever enters it is secure. And it is (a duty) upon mankind towards Allah (to come) to the Home on Pilgrimage, for whomever is able to make a way to it. And (as for) him who has disbelieved, then surely Allah is Ever-Affluent, (Literally: Ever-Rich) (dispensing) with the worlds.

So stop spreading lies about Islam and inform yourself about these matters.

You don't see any Joy in Islam? I didn't see or heard that you experience Islam at any point of time. I'm perfectly happy with Islam, All Praise to the Lord of the World for having blessed me with Islam

What can be more beautiful than to know who His Lord truly is? Having His Creator explaining all the things someone need to know to live a decent life, a life following the path of the Messengers, and Prophets, and Righteous.

Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. 2:136

 

[Jonathan95]

I thought I answered to this Allah says in Surat Al-Baqarah [verse 286] -
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity.

Moreover the verse 97 in Sura 3 Al Imran
(Shakir translation)
In it are clear signs, the standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it shall be secure, and pilgrimage to the House is incumbent upon men for the sake of Allah, (upon) every one who is able to undertake the journey to it; and whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, above any need of the worlds.
(Dr. Ghali translation)
Therein are supremely evident signs: the station of Ibrahim. (Abraham) And whoever enters it is secure. And it is (a duty) upon mankind towards Allah (to come) to the Home on Pilgrimage, for whomever is able to make a way to it. And (as for) him who has disbelieved, then surely Allah is Ever-Affluent, (Literally: Ever-Rich) (dispensing) with the worlds.

So stop spreading lies about Islam and inform yourself about these matters.

You don't see any Joy in Islam? I didn't see or heard that you experience Islam at any point of time. I'm perfectly happy with Islam, All Praise to the Lord of the World for having blessed me with Islam

What can be more beautiful than to know who His Lord truly is? Having His Creator explaining all the things someone need to know to live a decent life, a life following the path of the Messengers, and Prophets, and Righteous.

Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. 2:136

Haha, Abraham didn't do a Hajj pilgrimage. He didn't believe in Allah either. Muhammad was suicidal. If he was truly chosen by God, he would have peace.

 

[Jonathan95]

.

Holy Spirit is a person. He can be grieved.

The Comforter would ABIDE with us FOREVER. Where is muhammad now?

The original greek word is ALOS PARAKLETOS

ALOS= another of the same kind i.e. some one who is of the same nature (divine)
PARAKLETOS: comforter, helper, standby, intercessor, strengthener, advocate, counsellor

Jesus said the Comforter who was exactly like Him will not only be with the Church forever but that He will indwell them and will remind them of all the things He had taught them. He also said the paraklete will be in constant contact with Him and recieve from Him the things that He needs to tell or give us. He also said the Comforter will give us power.

 

[Wyssam]

Haha, Abraham didn't do a Hajj pilgrimage. He didn't believe in Allah either. Muhammad was suicidal. If he was truly chosen by God, he would have peace.

(65. O people of the Scripture! Why do you dispute about Abraham, while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him Have you then no sense) (66. Verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that of which you have no knowledge It is Allah Who knows, and you know not.) (67. Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Pure Monotheist and he was not of the Polytheist ) (68. Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrahim are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who have believed. And Allah is the Wali (Protector and Helper) of the believers.)

The more you talk the more I realize that you know very little about the Scripture, you keep on throwing baseless errors of people before you.
I told you go read and educate yourself it will be more beneficial for you.

If you want to learn more about who he was
turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72566


youtube.com/watch?v=7Ja2WTHLajA

 

[Jonathan95]

The more you talk the more I realize that you know very little about the Scripture, you keep on throwing baseless errors of people before you.
I told you go read and educate yourself it will be more beneficial for you.

It doesn't matter what your scripture say. Abraham wasn't a Muslim. Then there wouldn't be any Jews or Christians.

(Genesis 12:1-3)
1 NOW [in Haran] the Lord said to Abram, Go for yourself [for your own advantage] away from your country, from your relatives and your father's house, to the land that I will show you.
2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you [with abundant increase of favors] and make your name famous and distinguished, and you will be a blessing [dispensing good to others].
3 And I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you; in you will all the families and kindred of the earth be blessed [and by you they will bless themselves]

"You" in verse 3 is Israel. Muslims believe Israel is the Small Satan. How can this be?


Christianity is not polothyeism. We have only one God, and he's a three in one. Learn the trinity


Eph.4:4-6
ONE body
==>ONE spirit
====>ONE hope
======>(((ONE LORD)))
====>ONE faith
==>ONE baptism
ONE God

Oneness Pentecostalism.

Though I don't believe in the doctrine of baptizing in the name of Jesus. But in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Arthra]

Jonathan wrote:

It doesn't matter what your scripture say. Abraham wasn't a Muslim. Then there wouldn't be any Jews or Christians.

(Genesis 12:1-3)

1 NOW [in Haran] the Lord said to Abram, Go for yourself [for your own advantage] away from your country, from your relatives and your father's house, to the land that I will show you.

2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you [with abundant increase of favors] and make your name famous and distinguished, and you will be a blessing [dispensing good to others].

3 And I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you; in you will all the families and kindred of the earth be blessed [and by you they will bless themselves]

"You" in verse 3 is Israel. Muslims believe Israel is the Small Satan. How can this be?

My comment:

Jonathan when I read the verses above ... the "you" refers to Abraham and His descendents... which include children of Sarah, Hagar, let's include Keturah as well. Jacob (Israel) son of Isaac.. The Prophets descended from Sarah, Hagar from whom descended Muhammad and we Baha'is believe from Keturah as well.

"Little Satan" is a reference by a few who do not represent all Muslims...

The origin of &#8220;Little Satan&#8221; (Israel) isn&#8217;t so well known, but was cited in print a few months later. Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi said &#8220;Israel is the little Satan&#8221; in a July 1980 interview.

The Big Apple: Little Satan (Israel); Big Satan or Great Satan (United States)

Spreading hatred and deception I thought by itself could be termed "satanic".

Jonathan wrote:

Christianity is not polothyeism. We have only one God, and he's a three in one. Learn the trinity


Eph.4:4-6
ONE body
==>ONE spirit
====>ONE hope
======>(((ONE LORD)))
====>ONE faith
==>ONE baptism
ONE God

Oneness Pentecostalism.

Though I don't believe in the doctrine of baptizing in the name of Jesus. But in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

My comment:

So you believe in "oneness pentacostalism" ...well and good ... and you accept Trinity ... Did a little research on that and apparently most of the oneness pentacostals believe in baptizing in the name of Jesus not the trinity...apparently disparage oither Christians who believe in the trinity:

doctrine states that there is one God, a singular spirit who manifests himself in many different ways, including as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct and eternal "persons" posited by Trinitarian theology. Oneness believers baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, commonly referred to as Jesus-name baptism, rather than using the Trinitarian formula.

Oneness Pentecostalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you already set yourself apart form many other Christians.

All that is your business of course. You were the one who posted that video starting this thread which is full of inaccuracies about Islam and attacks Orthodox Jews and Catholics as well as being satanic and under lucifer.

These kinds of attacks on religions is to me sadly "satanic". I bear you no ill will but such attacks on others seems to me can only stir up more strife and misunderstanding..Take it to heart friend!

 

[Jonathan95]

.

Islam is pagan. Sex with virgins in heaven? Fleshly pleasures in a spiritual place (heaven)?

 

[LoAmmi]

Islam is pagan. Sex with virgins in heaven? Fleshly pleasures in a spiritual place (heaven)?

On face value, Christians are promised mansions. Earthly dwellings in a spiritual place?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Jonathan95 Islam is pagan. Sex with virgins in heaven? Fleshly pleasures in a spiritual place (heaven)?

On face value, Christians are promised mansions. Earthly dwellings in a spiritual place?

With my luck, I will probably be given a run down shack with an outhouse outside

http://www.christianforums.com/t7650220/
Why are there mansions in Heaven?

It is said several times in the Holy Bible(such as in John 14:2-3) that there are mansions in Heaven for people who believe in Jesus Christ. However, I can't help but wonder what this means. Being a Christian,I don't doubt anything the Bible says, but I'm puzzled by this.
After all, there aren't worldly things in Heaven are there, since the main purpose of our time in Heaven is to be with our Heavenly Father? And if there are no worldly things in the mansions, what would be in the mansions? And if there isn't anything in the mansions, what is their purpose? If I am wrong in makng these guesses, please tell me so. Any information would be appreciated, because I'm really confused by this. God bless you all.

 

[Jonathan95]

(Genesis 12:1-3)

1 NOW [in Haran] the Lord said to Abram, Go for yourself [for your own advantage] away from your country, from your relatives and your father's house, to the land that I will show you.

2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you [with abundant increase of favors] and make your name famous and distinguished, and you will be a blessing [dispensing good to others].

3 And I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you; in you will all the families and kindred of the earth be blessed [and by you they will bless themselves]

Jonathan when I read the verses above ... the "you" refers to Abraham and His descendents... which include children of Sarah, Hagar, let's include Keturah as well. Jacob (Israel) son of Isaac.. The Prophets descended from Sarah, Hagar from whom descended Muhammad and we Baha'is believe from Keturah as well.

Well it talks about a nation in verse 2.

All that is your business of course. You were the one who posted that video starting this thread which is full of inaccuracies about Islam and attacks Orthodox Jews and Catholics as well as being satanic and under lucifer.

These kinds of attacks on religions is to me sadly "satanic". I bear you no ill will but such attacks on others seems to me can only stir up more strife and misunderstanding..Take it to heart friend!

I don't believe Catholics and Orthodox Jews are satanic and under lucifer. I didn't even know he talked about Orthodox Jews.

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] [a]expose and reprove and convict them.

 

[Jonathan95]

On face value, Christians are promised mansions. Earthly dwellings in a spiritual place?

It's not mansions that are like those at earth.

 

[LoAmmi]

It's not mansions that are like those at earth.

I would assume not, but again, taking it purely at face value would suggest it is. Keep that in mind.

 

[LoAmmi]

I don't believe Catholics and Orthodox Jews are satanic and under lucifer. I didn't even know he talked about Orthodox Jews.

The Synagogue of Satan 2/3 - YouTube
Different video, but he clearly states that, basically, the synagogue I attend is a "synagogue of Satan". So, that being the case, Judaism and those that practice it must be satanic.

You disagree with him on this point?

 

[Jonathan95]

Different video, but he clearly states that, basically, the synagogue I attend is a "synagogue of Satan". So, that being the case, Judaism and those that practice it must be satanic.

You disagree with him on this point?

Yes I completely disagree.

 

[LoAmmi]

Yes I completely disagree.

I am glad to hear it.

He basically throws out the 2000 year charge of deicide at us, when it is quite obvious to anybody that even if Jews killed Jesus, it was only a small number of them since plenty lived far outside of Jerusalem and nobody alive today had a single thing to do with it.

 

[Jonathan95]

I am glad to hear it.

He basically throws out the 2000 year charge of deicide at us, when it is quite obvious to anybody that even if Jews killed Jesus, it was only a small number of them since plenty lived far outside of Jerusalem and nobody alive today had a single thing to do with it.

Yes. Jews are God's chosen people.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's not mansions that are like those at earth.

How do you know?
Btw, could you give a response to an earlier post I put up about that? Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7648776/#post60445443

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