Islam attacks Israel

[keras]

You avoided ALL my questions and points about how to recognise the genre - and just did a rinse and repeat post.

I reject your nonsense of things like 'eschatological tension' and itallhappensatonce; end times.

What I did in #159, was to prove that the Lord will take action - on the Appointed Day, and clear and cleanse all of the holy Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Jeremiah 10:18
You seem to think this is impossible, and your MO is to just ignore those verses as I post there, or say they have already happened.
Provide proof of a past fulfilment of any one of them.

 

[rturner76]

I ignore and pass over posts that misrepresent my views, make disparaging comments and rude accusations.

Apologies if I misrepresented something that you said. Where exactly did I misinterpret your post? I wanted to add that I don't recall launching a personal attack. Perhaps it was when I mentioned that you think God would endorse the wholesale slaughter of "infidels?" Please set me straight. Tell me where I was in error. I certainly wouldn't want to disregard anything edifying. However, I would disregard anything that states that Jesus approves of us killing our neighbors. That's why I said it's more of a political argument than a religious one.

 

[rturner76]

Provide proof of a past fulfilment of any one of them.

Sorry to just jump in here, but I saw this reply after I made my last post. If you are wondering how the Israelite prophesy was fulfilled, I would sum it up with four words: Kind David King Soloman. That was the Old Covenant. The New One is that the gentiles would be grafted into the vine of the chosen people. The best way to illustrate that is that the Church of Jerusalem was the first major church founded by Jewish Christians who then grafted the Gentiles to the New Covenant made by the Messiah.

 

[keras]

Sorry to just jump in here, but I saw this reply after I made my last post. If you are wondering how the Israelite prophesy was fulfilled, I would sum it up with four words: Kind David King Soloman. That was the Old Covenant. The New One is that the gentiles would be grafted into the vine of the chosen people. The best way to illustrate that is that the Church of Jerusalem was the first major church founded by Jewish Christians who then grafted the Gentiles to the New Covenant made by the Messiah.

Most of the Prophesies remain unfulfilled. There is no record of the cosmic things and the world shaking happening on ancient times.

 

[eclipsenow]

I reject your nonsense of things like 'eschatological tension' and itallhappensatonce; end times.

I know that.
What I don't think you know is WHY you reject it.
You cannot articulate it in any sensible fashion.
I think you need this book.

You seem to think this is impossible, and your MO is to just ignore those verses

You always say that.
But I really don't.
Nor do the theologians I read.
Those verses just say other things.

Imagine you meet a flat earther. They present 'evidence' by just randomly selected lines from authoritative, sensible Britannica and other peer-reviewed science and geography articles. But it's all obviously been mashed together with an agenda, and barely 1% of the 'arguments' or 'data' from all these articles actually has anything to do with what the original article was ACTUALLY saying?

That's what it's like when you do your bible verse Gish-gallop.

Then you turn around and sulk at us for not 'believing the prophets'.
But that's just not the case.
It's that you don't know what you are doing - and so just rinse and repeat your assertions even HARDER-ER next time!

Provide proof of a past fulfilment of any one of them.

What a kind offer! Except - when I did exactly that for Ezekiel you just ignored it, counter-asserted there were tons of unfulfilled prophecies in Ezekiel - but basically abandoned ship. I'm busy. I've told you in private messages that I'm in a career change. I stopped and reviewed Ezekiel for you - tried to get you to be honest about Ezekiel 12 - and failed.

So when you just DEMAND I drop everything and 'provide proof' - and all you've done about this conversation is deride, then rinse and repeat - I'll decline your kind offer to waste all my time!

 

[rturner76]

Most of the Prophesies remain unfulfilled. There is no record of the cosmic things and the world shaking happening on ancient times.

Also, there are some open prophecies that have no discernable date like the day of judgment

Matthew 24:36: "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

 

[eclipsenow]

Also, there are some open prophecies that have no discernable date like the day of judgment

Matthew 24:36: "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

He just switches out "That day". He pretends "That day" is a giant solar flare (Coronal Mass Ejection) instead of the Return of the Lord. Except Jesus then tells all these parables about the thief in the night, bad tennant, unwise investor, finally culminating in the suddenness of his own return with the sheep and the goats being parted. There's no separating it all out - but don't tell Keras that!

 

[keras]

He just switches out "That day". He pretends "That day" is a giant solar flare (Coronal Mass Ejection) instead of the Return of the Lord. Except Jesus then tells all these parables about the thief in the night, bad tennant, unwise investor, finally culminating in the suddenness of his own return with the sheep and the goats being parted. There's no separating it all out - but don't tell Keras that!

They are all so obviously different events, at different times.
But don't believe the Prophesies, just get it all over in one fell swoop. Easier to handle that way.

 

[eclipsenow]

They are all so obviously different events, at different times.
But don't believe the Prophesies, just get it all over in one fell swoop. Easier to handle that way.

You just did it again.
Here - let me repay the compliment!

You always say that.
But I really don't refuse to believe the Prophesies.
Nor do the theologians I read.
Those verses just say other things.

Imagine you meet a flat earther. They present 'evidence' by just randomly selected lines from authoritative, sensible Britannica and other peer-reviewed science and geography articles. But it's all obviously been mashed together with an agenda, and barely 1% of the 'arguments' or 'data' from all these articles actually has anything to do with what the original article was ACTUALLY saying?

That's what it's like when you do your bible verse Gish-gallop.

Then you turn around and sulk at us for not 'believing the prophets'.
But that's just not the case.
It's that you don't know what you are doing - and so just rinse and repeat your assertions even HARDER-ER next time!

Also - you failed to address this? I guess YOU'RE the only one that gets to ask tough questions? If I ask them - you don't even attempt to answer them?​

Yeah - nice balanced conversation there.

Provide proof of a past fulfilment of any one of them.

What a kind offer! Except - when I did exactly that for Ezekiel you just ignored it, counter-asserted there were tons of unfulfilled prophecies in Ezekiel - but basically abandoned ship. I'm busy. I've told you in private messages that I'm in a career change. I stopped and reviewed Ezekiel for you - tried to get you to be honest about Ezekiel 12 - and failed.

So when you just DEMAND I drop everything and 'provide proof' - and all you've done about this conversation is deride, then rinse and repeat - I'll decline your kind offer to waste all my time!

 

[keras]

Our Situation Now:

For Israel: now the Christian Church – Ezekiel 22:26-29 Her priests give rulings that violate My Law and profane what is sacred to Me. They teach there is no distinction between the clean and the unclean, they disregard the keeping of the seventh day of rest and I am dishonoured among them. The peoples leaders are like wolves, doing anything to obtain unjust gain. Her prophetic teachers give out false ideas, making them out to be the truth. The people practice extortion, robbery and they oppress the needy and the alien, denying them justice.

For Judah , the Jewish State of Israel – Jeremiah 8:7-13 Birds know when to migrate and the season to return, but My people do not know the requirements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise, we have the Law of the Lord, when the scribes with their lying pens have falsified it? The wise will be put to shame, they will be dismayed and trapped. They have failed to discern the Word of the Lord, so what sort of wisdom is theirs?

Therefore, I shall give their wives and their Land to new owners, for all the people, both high and low, are out to make money and gain fame. Prophet and priest, are frauds, every one of them. [End time fiction writers, prophecy exponents and Rabbis] They address today’s problems superficially, saying: All is well. All well? No nothing is well! They ought to be ashamed, but their pride and prestige won’t allow it. Therefore they will all fall with a great crash on the Lord’s Day of Reckoning. There will be no grapes on the vine, no figs on the fig tree, [Israel: the vine and Judah the fig tree, both do not produce good fruit, that is: the fruit of obeying the Commandments and spreading the Gospel.] even the foliage will wither. [The people - ‘passed under the rod of judgement, all those who revolt and rebel will die’. Ezekiel 20:37-38] What I have given them, will be taken from them.



What we should do about it:

Isaiah 56:1-7 The Lord says: Maintain justice and do what is right, My deliverance is close at hand and My victory will soon be revealed. Happy is the person who keeps these precepts, who keeps the seventh day unprofained and avoids all wrongdoing.

Isaiah 58:6-7 & 13-14 What the Lord requires is justice, to give the oppressed a chance, to give food and clothing to the needy and that you do your duty to your kinfolk. Keep the seventh day holy by not travelling or doing business and attending to your own affairs. Then you will find joy in the Lord and the holding of your father Jacob, will be yours to enjoy.

Micah 6:8 The Lord has told you mortals what is good and what He requires of you. Only act justly, to keep loyal and to walk humbly with your God.

What the Lord will do:

Zephaniah 3:8-9 Therefore wait for Me, says the Lord; wait for the Day when I stand up to accuse you. I have decided to judge nations and kingdoms in order to pour out My wrath upon them, all of My burning anger. The whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath. Then I will give to the people a pure language, so that they all may call upon the Name of the Lord and serve Him with one accord.

Isaiah 51:7-8 Listen to Me, My people who know what is right: you that lay My instructions to heart, do not fear the threats or reviling of enemies, for they will become like a garment devoured by grubs. My saving power will last forever and My deliverance to all generations.

Acts 26:6-7 It is the hope based on the promise God made to our forefathers...The twelve Tribes worship with intense devotion in the hope of seeing the fulfilment of that promise. [That is the promise of the Messiah and the blessing to every faithful Christian.]

Romans 3:24 All are made righteous if they accept the gift of atonement through Christ Jesus.
Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.

 

[rturner76]

He just switches out "That day". He pretends "That day" is a giant solar flare (Coronal Mass Ejection) instead of the Return of the Lord. Except Jesus then tells all these parables about the thief in the night, bad tennant, unwise investor, finally culminating in the suddenness of his own return with the sheep and the goats being parted. There's no separating it all out - but don't tell Keras that!

There are many prophesies but I don't tink we can discern the day they will be fulfilled is what I was trying to convey. Would you agree? Part of that is trying to predict who will go to war with whom and when. Many feel they can figure these things out and are disappointed when their predicted day comes and nothing happens.

 

[eclipsenow]

There are many prophesies but I don't tink we can discern the day they will be fulfilled is what I was trying to convey. Would you agree? Part of that is trying to predict who will go to war with whom and when. Many feel they can figure these things out and are disappointed when their predicted day comes and nothing happens.

God willing that none of us die before 2027 - and that will be Keras. He predicted the AOD early 2026

 

[rturner76]

God willing that none of us die before 2027 - and that will be Keras. He predicted the AOD early 2026

There have been so many false dates that people thought they figured out. They have predicted this or that year since the time of Jesus' ascension. I'm sure you are aware of this verse of the Bible. Matthew 24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" This statement BY JESUS should show and prove that NOBODY can predict the day or hour of the second coming/judgment day.

To try and state as a fact what the day/hour will be IMO is blasphemy. It's tantamount to saying they know more about the day than Jesus. I do understand that some churches have decided that they know more that the writers of the New Testament. In that regard as believers we must remember: Mattew 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. Many have been led astray by church founders who believe they have deciphered when the day will come and they have ALL been proven wrong. Why someone would buy into following a false prophet is beyond my understanding. I'm sure that they believe these false prophets because many of them have a vast knowledge of scripture. So really I don't blame these people for following false teachers, I just feel sorry for them because the religion that they have chosen can't really help them if they are preaching falsly.

 

[keras]

There have been so many false dates that people thought they figured out. They have predicted this or that year since the time of Jesus' ascension. I'm sure you are aware of this verse of the Bible. Matthew 24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" This statement BY JESUS should show and prove that NOBODY can predict the day or hour of the second coming/judgment day.

To try and state as a fact what the day/hour will be IMO is blasphemy. It's tantamount to saying they know more about the day than Jesus. I do understand that some churches have decided that they know more that the writers of the New Testament. In that regard as believers we must remember: Mattew 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. Many have been led astray by church founders who believe they have deciphered when the day will come and they have ALL been proven wrong. Why someone would buy into following a false prophet is beyond my understanding. I'm sure that they believe these false prophets because many of them have a vast knowledge of scripture. So really I don't blame these people for following false teachers, I just feel sorry for them because the religion that they have chosen can't really help them if they are preaching falsly.

What I see with people who hate the idea we can know the Lords Plans, is a serious lack of reading and understanding of what the Bible does say.
Amos 3:7 Indeed; the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants; the Prophets.
The Prophets wrote down all the details for us to see, but because of accepting ideas, theories and doctrines which have no Biblical support, they have confused themselves. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20

 

[rturner76]

What I see with people who hate the idea we can know the Lords Plans, is a serious lack of reading and understanding of what the Bible does say.
Amos 3:7 Indeed; the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants; the Prophets.
The Prophets wrote down all the details for us to see, but because of accepting ideas, theories and doctrines which have no Biblical support, they have confused themselves. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20

My friend, I hate to say it but I believe you confused yourself. Do you believe that Jesus didn't know hat he was talking about when he said: Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

In that quote from Jesus The Christ, was he misleading us or do you think The Son of God had no idea what he was talking about? Have you or whoever leads you decide that they have more knowledge than the Son of God, or you you believe that Jesus was misleading us.

So many dates that were supposed to be the last day have come and gone since even before the New Testament was established. Now you think you know better than God The Father and his Son our Savior Jesus Christ? Are you actually implying that you or your church's leader are more knowledgeable about God's plan than the Son of God who was born perfect by a virgin? I think somewhere along the way you may have been misled.

 

[eclipsenow]

To try and state as a fact what the day/hour will be IMO is blasphemy. It's tantamount to saying they know more about the day than Jesus. I do understand that some churches have decided that they know more that the writers of the New Testament. In that regard as believers we must remember: Mattew 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. Many have been led astray by church founders who believe they have deciphered when the day will come and they have ALL been proven wrong. Why someone would buy into following a false prophet is beyond my understanding. I'm sure that they believe these false prophets because many of them have a vast knowledge of scripture. So really I don't blame these people for following false teachers, I just feel sorry for them because the religion that they have chosen can't really help them if they are preaching falsly.

Exactly! Millennial fears is what cult-leaders pray on, from Jehovah's Witnesses to Mormons to Jonestown to the Branch Davidians. Every second cult seems to start like this - with a 'leader' going on and on and on about their particular interpretation of End Times Tables. It appeals to a deep psychological need to have some kind of certainty about the future - either in the cult-leader themselves - or their followers. Certainty is such a profoundly powerful driver it's one of the things psychologists have studied about both secular and religious Doomerism. I see this in Christian circles, and in the secular environmental circles. Don't get me wrong - I take climate change very seriously. We have a moral obligation to clean up this mess. Even Big Oil have decided to sponsor secular environmental Doomers. It destroys hope - and that destroys the energy for activism. For if you're convinced the climate is going to crush civilisation in the next 10 years - then why bother? Grab a beer, sit back in judgement and watch it all unfold. If fear many Christians end up with a similar reaction to their own apocalyptic end-times tables - all because they despise good doctrine and bothering to read the experts on this!

 

[keras]

My friend, I hate to say it but I believe you confused yourself. Do you believe that Jesus didn't know hat he was talking about when he said: Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

Jesus castigated the Jewish leaders for not knowing the Advent of the Messiah. He also said we should know the time and season of His Return.
The exact Day - we do not know.

AS for the future of human civilization, the Bible Prophets paint a very good picture of how it will be when the Lord has disposed of all the ungodly peoples and takes up His Kingship over all the world.
It is just the testing times to come, 1 Peter 4:12, Revelation 6:12-17, when we must stand firm in our faith and prove our trust in God.

 

[rturner76]

Exactly! Millennial fears is what cult-leaders pray on, from Jehovah's Witnesses to Mormons to Jonestown to the Branch Davidians. Every second cult seems to start like this - with a 'leader' going on and on and on about their particular interpretation of End Times Tables. It appeals to a deep psychological need to have some kind of certainty about the future - either in the cult-leader themselves - or their followers. Certainty is such a profoundly powerful driver it's one of the things psychologists have studied about both secular and religious Doomerism. I see this in Christian circles, and in the secular environmental circles. Don't get me wrong - I take climate change very seriously. We have a moral obligation to clean up this mess. Even Big Oil have decided to sponsor secular environmental Doomers. It destroys hope - and that destroys the energy for activism. For if you're convinced the climate is going to crush civilisation in the next 10 years - then why bother? Grab a beer, sit back in judgement and watch it all unfold. If fear many Christians end up with a similar reaction to their own apocalyptic end-times tables - all because they despise good doctrine and bothering to read the experts on this!

Yeah, the whole Global climate change thig I believe is real. Especially in terms of the garbage and plastic islands in the oceans degrading and fish get "micro-plastics" in their gill and then through their body and we eat those micro-plastics and it's really bad. I do also believe like climate change deniers that the Earth has gone through many ice ages and disasters like volcanic eruptions that change the climate of the entire globe. Having said that, I believe it's best to do the least damage possible. Some people misinterpret what was given to Adam's gift of "dominion over the Earth" to believe that we can do whatever we want on this planet because we have dominion over it. I interpret that to mean we are to be stewards of the Earth and take care of the life it contains. So in my view even if there are natural factors at work with global climate change, we have no right to accelerate that process or make it worse with our trash, chemicals, and plastics. Not to mention over fishing the oceans. When we run out of fish the oceans will die and become cesspools of unusable water.

Didn't mean to get on a global warming tangent but I wanted to expand on what you expressed about how cult leaders clutch to these situations and call them the wrath of God. My biggest beef with the notion that we can predict the day of judgement in one, so many cults have tried before and have offered up their souls and the apocalypse never happened. The fact that the Son of God said "no one can know the day or the hour but the Father" should be a clear indication that NOONE can know. It could be later today or literally a million years from now. The Book of Daniel has some cryptic prophecy that cult leaders bend to their own agenda. Most of them asking people to sell their homes and give all of their assets to their "church." Salvation is a free gift, one should not be told that they have to pay for it with their life savings.

Rant over

 

[rturner76]

Jesus castigated the Jewish leaders for not knowing the Advent of the Messiah. He also said we should know the time and season of His Return.
The exact Day - we do not know.

AS for the future of human civilization, the Bible Prophets paint a very good picture of how it will be when the Lord has disposed of all the ungodly peoples and takes up His Kingship over all the world.
It is just the testing times to come, 1 Peter 4:12, Revelation 6:12-17, when we must stand firm in our faith and prove our trust in God.

We must always stand firm and prove our trust in God. I just don't think we are doing that when we try to predict his return at a particular time. I think the message is to always ready because it could happen at any moment (or in a million years).

 

[keras]

The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse, Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43; will be a huge explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Matthew 3:12

Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm! For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming.
As the sun rises, a vast host will appear, the like has never been known.

It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire.
All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:1 & 3, Isaiah 34:1-8

The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect; it will be the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, unexpected and surprising everyone. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17, Psalm 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 1:18,

Only a Coronal Mass Ejection can literally fulfil all of the 100+ Prophesies about that forthcoming sudden and shocking Day. The Sixth Seal; Revelation 6:12-17

It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog/Magog or of Armageddon, both to come later, respectively.