Isaiah 58:13,14

[Symes]

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."



This passage of Scripture is very significant.

It is the only place in God's Word where it says that is God's holy day. It does not say that the first day of the week is holy but that the Sabbath is holy.

This makes the Sabbath the Lord's day.

 

[Symes]

It then stands to reason that as the Lord said that the Sabbath was His holy day that the Sabbath is the seventh day.

 

[Oblio]

Who has denied worship on Saturday, or that Saturday is Holy ?

Where does Scripture contraindicate worship on the first (eighth) day of the week to celebrate Christ risen from the dead ?

 

[ethereal hope]

I like to think that when Jesus said, "It is done", that was the end of the sixth day, and now every day for Christians should be holy (the seventh day).

The sabbath was a sign between God and the Jews (Ex 31:17) that was to be nailed to the cross (decrees done away with, Col 2:14), as prophesied in Amos 8:9 after the merchant asked when the Sabbath would be over (God said, "...in that day... I will make the sun go down at noon and make the earth dark in broad daylight", fulfilled Messianic prophecy).

(I know Exodus says between God and the Hebrews "forever", but in Amos we learn that the time period encompassed in "forever" ended on the day the sun darkened at noon, which we read about in Matt 27:45.)

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Colossians 2:16 expounds on 2:14 greatly. Even the word for sabbath used in 2:16 means specifically the weekly sabbaths. We find in Hebrews that our sabbath as Christians is the eternal rest we have in Christ Jesus. We are under no commandment to worship on a specific day but we have chosen to celebrate Christ and worship on the day that He rose from the dead thus fulfilling prophecy and proving He was the Saviour that has been promised!

 

[Symes]

Who has denied worship on Saturday, or that Saturday is Holy ?

Where does Scripture contraindicate worship on the first (eighth) day of the week to celebrate Christ risen from the dead ?

It does not contradict worshop on the first day of the week because when Scripture was written there was no worship on the first day of the week.

 

[Symes]

flesh99

Colossians 2:16 expounds on 2:14 greatly. Even the word for sabbath used in 2:16 means specifically the weekly sabbaths. We find in Hebrews that our sabbath as Christians is the eternal rest we have in Christ Jesus. We are under no commandment to worship on a specific day but we have chosen to celebrate Christ and worship on the day that He rose from the dead thus fulfilling prophecy and proving He was the Saviour that has been promised!

How many more time do I have to tell you the verses you quote have nothing to do with worship on the first day of the week. Go back to the text I quoted from and see if God says that He has a day that is holy? I will quote the text again. Now for Sunday or any day to be holy God would need to make a similar type of announcement. None has ever been madse to say that the first day of the week is holy and a Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:13,14


"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."

Sunday has never been declared the "holy day of the Lord" or "my holy day"

That has only ever been done for the Sabbath.

 

[Oblio]

Sunday has never been declared the "holy day of the Lord" or "my holy day"

Shall we quote the Apostolic Fathers of the Church ?

It does not contradict worshop

The word was contraindicate, not contradict. Please show us where we are not to worship on the first day of the New Creation.

 

[Oblio]

Chapter LXVII.-Weekly Worship of the Christians.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,146 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,147 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,148 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

How many more time do I have to tell you the verses you quote have nothing to do with worship on the first day of the week. Go back to the text I quoted from and see if God says that He has a day that is holy? I will quote the text again. Now for Sunday or any day to be holy God would need to make a similar type of announcement. None has ever been madse to say that the first day of the week is holy and a Sabbath.

Colossians 2:16 does exactly refer to a weekly sabbath, even precisesly according to the Greek. You have been shown this over and over again. Now you are quoting prophecy that was for Israel that is not relevant to us today to further your point. Sabbath keeping was given to the Jews as a reminder of their exodus from Egypt, it was not kept before that, and we are not required to keep it now, not since the cross has it been required of anyone. Our rest is found in Christ and it is an eternal rest. The shadow that was the sabbath has become no more and the what it testified to has come, this is our rest in Christ. We are under no law to worship on any given day or to cease work on any given day.

Sunday has never been declared the "holy day of the Lord" or "my holy day"
That has only ever been done for the Sabbath.

I have never said that Sunday was holy, you are attacking a straw man that no-one has brought up at all. We worship on the Lord's Day to commemorate his resurrection. This is when the apostles met to take comunion and when chruches were told take up offerings so it is obvious that this is when they met. The verse you are quoting and attempting to discuss is out of context in the manner you are trying to use it and all we have done is show that. It was a prophecy to Israel and is not for us as Christians.

 

[Symes]

flesh99

I have just noticed that you are now a Moderator.

Well done!

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Symes the entire passage of Isa 58 refers to the nation of Israel, which we are not part of. This scripture was for them and not for us. If you would read the whole passage you could see this. Right before the passage you have taken out of context is this:

Isa 58:12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

DO you think that applies to us as well and if so how?

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

flesh99

I have just noticed that you are now a Moderator.

Well done!

Thanks Symes! I am just in training currently though.

 

[Symes]

Symes the entire passage of Isa 58 refers to the nation of Israel, which we are not part of. This scripture was for them and not for us. If you would read the whole passage you could see this. Right before the passage you have taken out of context is this:

Isa 58:12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

DO you think that applies to us as well and if so how?

flesh99

You are right, but then the Bible also in many case refers to the nation of Israel. God had a chosen nation, the Children of Israel.

There is one problem with that and it is now God does not have a nation to bestow all these wonderful gifts and promises on.

God's people now receive all the covenant promises given to Abraham.

That is why we MUST keep the Sabbath.

Galations 3:28,29
"28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 

[Symes]

Even the Gentiles have to keep the Sabbath.

Eph. 3:6

"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."

They have the same promises, the requirements, that is to obey God's law.

 

[trucker]

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."



This passage of Scripture is very significant.

It is the only place in God's Word where it says that is God's holy day. It does not say that the first day of the week is holy but that the Sabbath is holy.

This makes the Sabbath the Lord's day.

Symes,

Identify who "thou" is please. Do not forget verse 14 says ..."of Jacob thy father..."

In post 6 you indicate no Sunday worship when Scripture was written. Are you saying the New Testament is not Scripture?

Symes, my apologies if I have over looked where Scripture says to worship on the Sabbath. I did not find worship connected with the first mention of "shabbat" not to be confused with "sabat" (rest). Did not find worship connected with or at the giving of the 10.

Counting on you to help me out dear boy (my effort at Aussie speak here).

trucker

 

[trucker]

flesh99

You are right, but then the Bible also in many case refers to the nation of Israel. God had a chosen nation, the Children of Israel.

There is one problem with that and it is now God does not have a nation to bestow all these wonderful gifts and promises on.

God's people now receive all the covenant promises given to Abraham.

That is why we MUST keep the Sabbath.

Galations 3:28,29
"28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Symes,

It has been pointed out to you that the "Testimony" known as the 10 commandments were not given to Abraham, but to those alive at Herob. You might also know that the "testimony" was not given to Ishmel the son of the bond woman. Yet he was a natural son of Abraham.

What Scripture reference are you using that Abraham kept the Sabbath?

trucker

 

[trucker]

Even the Gentiles have to keep the Sabbath.

Eph. 3:6

"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."

They have the same promises, the requirements, that is to obey God's law.

Symes,

It does not say we became Isrealites. It says we are heirs together "with." It does not say we are them.

trucker

 

[Symes]

trucker

This whole passage is written to Israel. They rejected God and now that passage applies to spiritual Israel.

See Gal. 3:28,29

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Symes the things that applied to Israel as a netion do not apply to us. This is evdent through all of Paul's writings. We are not Israel, we are heirs to the pormises to Abraham, verse 28 states plainly that there is neither Jew not Greek. The Jews were under the Law, and there are no designations in the body of Christ. We are heirs "according to promise". Go back up 10 verses in the same chapter:

Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

Note that it says it is not based on law, this means any law at all. We are likened unto Isaac in Galations 4:28, Abraham and Isaac were not under the Law, it was not in place until it was given to Moses. The passage you quote is about a specific time for Israel, a time long since passed. You are talking about 4 generations after Abraham until the giving of the Law, we are Abraham's seed, and likened unto Isaac, none of which puts us under the Law.