Isaiah 51:4

[gadar perets]

It's a different separate priesthood, one for the nations. It doesn't abrogate the Levitical priesthood for Israel. The Torah is not abrogated. Not one brushstroke.

I never said Torah was abrogated. Torah said the high priest must be of Aaronic descent. The oath made Yeshua a High Priest even though he was not from Aaron. Torah was changed, not abrogated.

 

[Meowzltov]

You haven't documented it for me. Are you referring to the time you said that Yeshua washed his hands because the Pharisees only commented about his disciples? That doesn't take precedence over Yeshua flat out saying that they taught as doctrines the traditions of men.

No, I mean I have on more than one occasion, including earlier today, documented how
1. Yeshua instructed his followers to do and observe ALL that the Pharisees taught Matthew 23:1-3
2. Yeshua himself followed the Pharisaical tradition of "building a wall around the Torah" in his sermon on the mount, such as lusting being a form of adultery.
3. Jesus himself observed Oral Torah (as in the example you gave of Yeshua washing his hands.
4. Certain of Yeshua's teachings being Rabbinical teachings, such as "Let your yes be yes and your no be no."

That's four strong and separate arguments. Put together it's an overwhelming case.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

It's a different separate priesthood, one for the nations.

This is reverse antisemitism. It's a prime example of the jealousy YHVH said would be invoked by grafting in the gentiles. Remember....no Jew nor gentile?

 

[Rachel Rachel]

No, I mean I have on more than one occasion, including earlier today, documented how
1. Yeshua instructed his followers to do and observe ALL that the Pharisees taught Matthew 23:1-3
2. Yeshua himself followed the Pharisaical tradition of "building a wall around the Torah" in his sermon on the mount, such as lusting being a form of adultery.
3. Jesus himself observed Oral Torah (as in the example you gave of Yeshua washing his hands.
4. Certain of Yeshua's teachings being Rabbinical teachings, such as "Let your yes be yes and your no be no."

That's four strong and separate arguments. Put together it's an overwhelming case.

No it isn't, OH. He called them vipers and so did John the Baptist.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

GOOD! Let's clear that up. What seems to be a contradiction ?

You said neither Torah nor Yeshua changed, then you posted something contradictory. Btw... you never cited your source for that.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

My booboo.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You said neither Torah nor Yeshua changed, then you posted something contradictory. Btw... you never cited your source for that.

For perhaps 3 days and 3 nights, keep this in prayer. There is no known contradiction in the post. The ideas conveyed are shared by Ekklesia around the world, wherever they may be found. (source; from notes saved from web - sorry if copy / paste from old webpages doesn't suit you at this time, it was just the simplest concise summary available)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

yogi ?!

My booboo.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

TORAH was given, and continued to be repeatedly given (the same TORAH) to all the people who were called by Yahweh, Ekklesia set apart by Him out of or out from the world, called and chosen by Yahweh for Himself.
"for Torah shall proceed from me" is as always the truth, TORAH proceeding as always, TORAH without change, not even one jot or tittle even to the end of all things.

JESUS is offered/ taught/ 'given' / preached via the GOOD NEWS, GOSPEL OF JESUS,
today,
wherever He is being preached/ shared/ taught/ delivered to men
THE SAME AS ALWAYS - JESUS did not change - JESUS is proceeding to all people wherever they may be on earth alive and able to hear Him, to learn from Him, His Way, His Truth, as the Father is Pleased to Reveal from His Word and to Accomplish in His Grace.

Neither TORAH nor JESUS has changed, and both are as written 'proceeding' by and in and through and for YAHWEH'S WILL and Yahweh's Purpose and Yahweh's Plan, Perfectly.

Good question Rachel Rachel (did you already know this ? ) >>
"Seeming Contradictions Between the Mosaic Law and the Sermon on the Mount
There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).
Note the contrast between what was written in the Mosaic Law and what Christ preached. This is not an error; it is a very legitimate contrast. It is an excellent example of Christ setting a higher standard for the believer than the standard set by the Mosaic Law. Because Christ is God He, of course, has every right to do just that.
Consider also Ex. 21:23-25 where we see that the law required “life for a life, eye for an eye”. But we read in Matt.5:38 where Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek turn to him the other also”. Here too there is a contrast in the words, “But I say”. Again, this is not an error; it is Christ’s right as God to set a higher standard for believers to live under than the standard set by the Mosaic Law.
And let us also consider Numbers 30:2 where we read “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word……”. And in Matt. 5:33-34 we read, “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old times, ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths’. But I say unto you, ‘Swear not at all…..but let your communication be, ‘Yea, yea’…….’”.
Christ, as the Author of the Law, had every right to demand a higher standard, and that is what He did as demonstrated in these verses quoted above."

Doesn't this contradict what you said in post#48

oops -#43 sorry.

For perhaps 3 days and 3 nights, keep this in prayer. There is no known contradiction in the posts. The ideas conveyed are shared by Ekklesia around the world, wherever they may be found. (source; from notes saved from web - sorry if copy / paste from old webpages doesn't suit you at this time, it was just the simplest concise summary available)

 

[Heber Book List]

He says very clearly that he has not come to break the law but, rather, he comes to fulfill it. How? By showing them that if they observe what he teaches, they can stay within the law. The law hasn't changed, it is there and always will be, but the look at it a diferent way.

The law requires an eye for an eye etc., so everyone went around enforcing it but, what if they did not go around doing the things that require an eye for an eye, any more - the law still remains intact, but you will not need it! The law was given to make us change, Yeshua was giving lessons on how to work within the law. This was his big thing - behave as if you do not need the law, if you want to be my disciples and follow me.

It's what he will do when he comes again - he will expect us to work within the law, as if there is no law.

 

[visionary]

When it comes to the priesthood and the temple, the change came when the original in heaven became the focus. The priesthood and temple on earth can still do the rehearsals/memorials but the reality is that we pray to our High Priest, who also happens to be our sacrifice, and He is mediating in the Heavenly courts on our behalf. That is where it counts. Any temple or services performed here on earth are either replicating that which is going on in heaven, or they are attempting to distract us from what is going on in heaven.

 

[Meowzltov]

No it isn't, OH. He called them vipers and so did John the Baptist.

My post accounted for this. I fight with my own family more than I fight with anyone else, and I love my own family more than I love anyone else. That's what I'm saying--the animosity stemmed from two reasons:
1. Yeshua expected far more from religious leaders
2. Yeshua was close to the Pharisees

 

[Rachel Rachel]

My post accounted for this. I fight with my own family more than I fight with anyone else, and I love my own family more than I love anyone else. That's what I'm saying--the animosity stemmed from two reasons:
1. Yeshua expected far more from religious leaders
2. Yeshua was close to the Pharisees

Okay, you go ahead and stick with that story. Love you anyway.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

i.e. only the high priest changed, as Yahweh says.

I never said Torah was abrogated. Torah said the high priest must be of Aaronic descent. The oath made Yeshua a High Priest even though he was not from Aaron. Torah was changed, not abrogated.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

ONLY when in line with TORAH, not otherwise. Not at all ever as the catholic variations or traditions or ways or practices or lives, or teachings are taught.

1. Yeshua instructed his followers to do and observe ALL that the Pharisees taught Matthew 23:1-3

 

[Shimshon]

ONLY when in line with TORAH, not otherwise. Not at all ever as the catholic variations or traditions or ways or practices or lives, or teachings are taught.

So, you don't use a bible?
Do you have a copy of this 'Torah' you speak of? Or, do you have the original manuscripts, and read Hebrew, Aramaic and, Greek? Actually, don't you use a bible 'translation' that was compiled by the church? Where is this 'Torah' that is not varied by the traditions of Judaism and Catholicism? Where is this Torah that was not complied, put forth, and preserved outside of mans traditions? (belief leads to traditions, traditions lead to religion) You seem to think you can have a belief without any traditions, and without leading to a religion. Yet, James 1:27 indicates what pure religion looks like. When your beliefs cause you to create traditions that help others. That unite others, not divide them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is what the false counterfeit anti-christ religion on earth does(and/or claims) every day for almost the last 2000 years and until Jesus returns.

...traditions that help others. That unite others, not divide them.

 

[Shimshon]

This is what the false counterfeit anti-christ religion on earth does(and/or claims) every day for almost the last 2000 years and until Jesus returns.

You avoided the questions. What do you mean by 'Torah'? Where do you get it? Is it written? Do you hear God speak it to you? Do you believe this 'Torah' is written in your bible? Do you trust that what the Bible has written is 'the Torah'? If you do, do you realize it is complied and translated by and within the traditions of Judaism and Catholicism? Or, do you use another translated version? Or, do you have access to 'the Torah' in it's original form and can read the original language?

What do you do, here on earth when you refer to 'Torah'?

ONLY when in line with TORAH, not otherwise.

What does that even mean?

(wow, this is just like the days of old here....Torah Torah Torah!!!l)

 

[Heber Book List]

Well, well, well! I'll just butt out a while, and let you folk arrive at your own answer, after you have argued it out for yourselves, and then compare it with mine.

 

[gadar perets]

i.e. only the high priest changed, as Yahweh says.

Yes, the change only concerns the high priest.