Isaiah 51:4

[Heber Book List]

So you don't think there is any "more" for Believers and the Jews?

Not 'more', but all man has added will be removed, leaving only G_d's actual words, as should have been the case in Acts 15.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

GOOD ! WONDERFUL ! TRUTH ! Now go and stick with SCRIPTURE, OUR FATHER'S WORD, and not the word of those opposed to Him..... no matter what the world thinks of them nor how much the world exalts them nor if men think "how great they are" ....
because if they oppose God , they are pernicious (death dealing) and are of no value to learn from.

Mar 12:28-34 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? (29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. (32) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: (33) And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. (34) And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

TORAH was given, and continued to be repeatedly given (the same TORAH) to all the people who were called by Yahweh, Ekklesia set apart by Him out of or out from the world, called and chosen by Yahweh for Himself.
"for Torah shall proceed from me" is as always the truth, TORAH proceeding as always, TORAH without change, not even one jot or tittle even to the end of all things.

JESUS is offered/ taught/ 'given' / preached via the GOOD NEWS, GOSPEL OF JESUS,
today,
wherever He is being preached/ shared/ taught/ delivered to men
THE SAME AS ALWAYS - JESUS did not change - JESUS is proceeding to all people wherever they may be on earth alive and able to hear Him, to learn from Him, His Way, His Truth, as the Father is Pleased to Reveal from His Word and to Accomplish in His Grace.

Neither TORAH nor JESUS has changed, and both are as written 'proceeding' by and in and through and for YAHWEH'S WILL and Yahweh's Purpose and Yahweh's Plan, Perfectly.

I don't read Hebrew so maybe someone who does could help, but why would it be written "instruction (Law/Torah) will come forth from Zion" and "for Torah shall proceed from me" if everything has already been given?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Excuse me please if my memory is faulty here, but the "more" referred to , if I remember correctly, is deception from mankind or demons, and not from Yahweh Sovereign Creator Father of Jesus Messiah.

So you don't think there is any "more" for Believers and the Jews?

 

[Rachel Rachel]

TORAH was given, and continued to be repeatedly given (the same TORAH) to all the people who were called by Yahweh, Ekklesia set apart by Him out of or out from the world, called and chosen by Yahweh for Himself.
"for Torah shall proceed from me" is as always the truth, TORAH proceeding as always, TORAH without change, not even one jot or tittle even to the end of all things.

JESUS is offered/ taught/ 'given' / preached via the GOOD NEWS, GOSPEL OF JESUS,
today,
wherever He is being preached/ shared/ taught/ delivered to men
THE SAME AS ALWAYS - JESUS did not change - JESUS is proceeding to all people wherever they may be on earth alive and able to hear Him, to learn from Him, His Way, His Truth, as the Father is Pleased to Reveal from His Word and to Accomplish in His Grace.

Neither TORAH nor JESUS has changed, and both are as written 'proceeding' by and in and through and for YAHWEH'S WILL and Yahweh's Purpose and Yahweh's Plan, Perfectly.

YeshuaslaveJeff, I agree that neither Torah nor Yeshua have changed, but I'm curious as to what you think Yeshua meant here:
Matthew 5: 38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Was he changing the commandment or not?

 

[Meowzltov]

The oath was already made and Torah changed before Yeshua uttered those words.

It's a different separate priesthood, one for the nations. It doesn't abrogate the Levitical priesthood for Israel. The Torah is not abrogated. Not one brushstroke.

 

[Meowzltov]

YeshuaslaveJeff, I agree that neither Torah nor Yeshua have changed, but I'm curious as to what you think Yeshua meant here:
Matthew 5: 38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Was he changing the commandment or not?

This is an example of Yeshua employing his Oral Torah.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Good question Rachel Rachel (did you already know this ? ) >>
"Seeming Contradictions Between the Mosaic Law and the Sermon on the Mount
There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).
Note the contrast between what was written in the Mosaic Law and what Christ preached. This is not an error; it is a very legitimate contrast. It is an excellent example of Christ setting a higher standard for the believer than the standard set by the Mosaic Law. Because Christ is God He, of course, has every right to do just that.
Consider also Ex. 21:23-25 where we see that the law required “life for a life, eye for an eye”. But we read in Matt.5:38 where Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek turn to him the other also”. Here too there is a contrast in the words, “But I say”. Again, this is not an error; it is Christ’s right as God to set a higher standard for believers to live under than the standard set by the Mosaic Law.
And let us also consider Numbers 30:2 where we read “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word……”. And in Matt. 5:33-34 we read, “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old times, ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths’. But I say unto you, ‘Swear not at all…..but let your communication be, ‘Yea, yea’…….’”.
Christ, as the Author of the Law, had every right to demand a higher standard, and that is what He did as demonstrated in these verses quoted above."

YeshuaslaveJeff, I agree that neither Torah nor Yeshua have changed, but I'm curious as to what you think Yeshua meant here:
Matthew 5: 38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Was he changing the commandment or not?

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Good question Rachel Rachel (did you already know this ? ) >>
"Seeming Contradictions Between the Mosaic Law and the Sermon on the Mount
There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).
Note the contrast between what was written in the Mosaic Law and what Christ preached. This is not an error; it is a very legitimate contrast. It is an excellent example of Christ setting a higher standard for the believer than the standard set by the Mosaic Law. Because Christ is God He, of course, has every right to do just that.
Consider also Ex. 21:23-25 where we see that the law required “life for a life, eye for an eye”. But we read in Matt.5:38 where Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek turn to him the other also”. Here too there is a contrast in the words, “But I say”. Again, this is not an error; it is Christ’s right as God to set a higher standard for believers to live under than the standard set by the Mosaic Law.
And let us also consider Numbers 30:2 where we read “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word……”. And in Matt. 5:33-34 we read, “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old times, ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths’. But I say unto you, ‘Swear not at all…..but let your communication be, ‘Yea, yea’…….’”.
Christ, as the Author of the Law, had every right to demand a higher standard, and that is what He did as demonstrated in these verses quoted above."

Who are you quoting?

 

[Meowzltov]

There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).

Hello my fellow Torah keeper.

I tend to view these teachings in the Sermon on the Mount as following in the same Rabbinic Tradition of the Pharisees of "building a fence around the Torah."

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Good question Rachel Rachel (did you already know this ? ) >>
"Seeming Contradictions Between the Mosaic Law and the Sermon on the Mount
There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).
Note the contrast between what was written in the Mosaic Law and what Christ preached. This is not an error; it is a very legitimate contrast. It is an excellent example of Christ setting a higher standard for the believer than the standard set by the Mosaic Law. Because Christ is God He, of course, has every right to do just that.
Consider also Ex. 21:23-25 where we see that the law required “life for a life, eye for an eye”. But we read in Matt.5:38 where Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek turn to him the other also”. Here too there is a contrast in the words, “But I say”. Again, this is not an error; it is Christ’s right as God to set a higher standard for believers to live under than the standard set by the Mosaic Law.
And let us also consider Numbers 30:2 where we read “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word……”. And in Matt. 5:33-34 we read, “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old times, ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths’. But I say unto you, ‘Swear not at all…..but let your communication be, ‘Yea, yea’…….’”.
Christ, as the Author of the Law, had every right to demand a higher standard, and that is what He did as demonstrated in these verses quoted above."

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Hello my fellow Torah keeper.

I tend to view these teachings in the Sermon on the Mount as following in the same Rabbinic Tradition of the Pharisees of "building a fence around the Torah."

I disagree with you on this. I don't think Yeshua followed Pharasaic tradition.

 

[Meowzltov]

I disagree with you on this. I don't think Yeshua followed Pharasaic tradition.

I've documented this before on this forum. I'm not going to document it again. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

I've documented this before on this forum. I'm not going to document it again. Let's just agree to disagree.

You haven't documented it for me. Are you referring to the time you said that Yeshua washed his hands because the Pharisees only commented about his disciples? That doesn't take precedence over Yeshua flat out saying that they taught as doctrines the traditions of men.

 

[chunkofcoal]

GOOD ! WONDERFUL ! TRUTH ! Now go and stick with SCRIPTURE, OUR FATHER'S WORD, and not the word of those opposed to Him..... no matter what the world thinks of them nor how much the world exalts them nor if men think "how great they are" ....
because if they oppose God , they are pernicious (death dealing) and are of no value to learn from.

I posted those scriptures from Mark about Yeshua's interaction with a scribe because of what you said to me -
"yeshuaslavejeff said: ↑
No, the sages had nothing of truth in mind when they contradicted and opposed God's Word. Thus their commentaries are proven not to be true, rather to be deceptive.
@chunkofcoal , the things you are trusting are deceiving you entirely.
Never trust a commentary as you do, when it deceives and when it obviously contradicts God's Word and God's Plan and God's Purpose in Jesus."

In Mark 12:28-34 Yeshua answered the scribes question, and the scribe commented and then -(34) And when Jesus saw that he [the scribe] answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

To me that means they weren't (aren't) all wrong and "of no value to learn from" as you say.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Good question Rachel Rachel (did you already know this ? ) >>
"Seeming Contradictions Between the Mosaic Law and the Sermon on the Mount
There are a few cases where Christ interprets the Law of Moses in such a way as to create seeming difficulties. We read for example in Matt. 5:21-22, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, ‘Thou shalt not kill; and whosever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:’ But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:….whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Gr. “gehenna”).
Note the contrast between what was written in the Mosaic Law and what Christ preached. This is not an error; it is a very legitimate contrast. It is an excellent example of Christ setting a higher standard for the believer than the standard set by the Mosaic Law. Because Christ is God He, of course, has every right to do just that.
Consider also Ex. 21:23-25 where we see that the law required “life for a life, eye for an eye”. But we read in Matt.5:38 where Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek turn to him the other also”. Here too there is a contrast in the words, “But I say”. Again, this is not an error; it is Christ’s right as God to set a higher standard for believers to live under than the standard set by the Mosaic Law.
And let us also consider Numbers 30:2 where we read “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word……”. And in Matt. 5:33-34 we read, “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old times, ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths’. But I say unto you, ‘Swear not at all…..but let your communication be, ‘Yea, yea’…….’”.
Christ, as the Author of the Law, had every right to demand a higher standard, and that is what He did as demonstrated in these verses quoted above."

Doesn't this contradict what you said in post#48

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The ones I think/ thought you posted about were the ones who are wrong and opposed to Yahweh and against Yahshua, and those like them also (i.e. those in the same condition as them as Yahweh sees things) ....

BEFORE agreeing with anyone, or any one of them, VERIFY what they say is in line with Scripture and not contradicting Scripture at all.

To me that means they weren't (aren't) all wrong and "of no value to learn from" as you say.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Doesn't this contradict what you said in post#48

You quoted post 48, so no, no contradiction..... what other post did you mean ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

GOOD! Let's clear that up. What seems to be a contradiction ?

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit.

 

[chunkofcoal]

You quoted post 48, so no, no contradiction..... what other post did you mean ?

oops -#43 sorry.