Isaiah 45:7

[Sarah G van G]

This verse meme (I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 NIV) seems to be going around as if it has some special, secret meaning that's just been discovered. I don't want to get into big discussions with non-believers posting it in the comments on my Christian Instagram or on the forum I go on but I want to be prepared to say something sensible about the verse. I just feel like, "Yes, God created everything, what's the issue?" but I know that won't be enough to satisfy people convinced they've discovered something new and radical. What's your comment, defense, general reaction to people waving this verse in your face?
Thanks.

 

[Rachel20]

This verse meme (I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 NIV) seems to be going around as if it has some special, secret meaning that's just been discovered. I don't want to get into big discussions with non-believers posting it in the comments on my Christian Instagram or on the forum I go on but I want to be prepared to say something sensible about the verse. I just feel like, "Yes, God created everything, what's the issue?" but I know that won't be enough to satisfy people convinced they've discovered something new and radical. What's your comment, defense, general reaction to people waving this verse in your face?
Thanks.


View attachment 308849

The use of "evil" here is calamity. And it's certainly scriptural that God brings calamity on the wicked. Sooner or later.

 

[eleos1954]

This verse meme (I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 NIV) seems to be going around as if it has some special, secret meaning that's just been discovered. I don't want to get into big discussions with non-believers posting it in the comments on my Christian Instagram or on the forum I go on but I want to be prepared to say something sensible about the verse. I just feel like, "Yes, God created everything, what's the issue?" but I know that won't be enough to satisfy people convinced they've discovered something new and radical. What's your comment, defense, general reaction to people waving this verse in your face?
Thanks.


View attachment 308849

The English term evil tends to designate moral evil, that is, moral wickedness. Accordingly, Isaiah 45:7 would be stating that God is the cause of immoral actions performed by sinful human beings.

But the Hebrew term rac has a much broader usage. It can designate moral evil, misfortune (Prov. 13:17), or harm (Jer. 7:6). In Isaiah 45:7 the context suggests the meaning “misfortune, disaster.” The whole phrase reads “I bring prosperity [shalom] and create disaster (NIV).” The opposite of “evil” in this sense is peace, prosperity, personal safety.

The issue here is not moral integrity versus immoral behavior but well-being versus misfortune. The “evil/misfortune” here refers to the bitter Israelite experience of the exile, and the “peace” to their restoration through the work of Cyrus. The evil God created was the exile, the destruction of Jerusalem.

In Amos 3:6 the Lord announced Israel’s fall through a rhetorical question: “When disaster [rac] comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?” (NIV). The idea is that the collapse of Israel was not the result of the victory of the pagan gods over the God of Israel; the Lord Himself brought this disaster on His people. God is not the creator of moral evil.

 

[d taylor]

From a human standpoint many would view the acts of God as evil. Just take the Genesis 6 flood ask any nonbeliever and they will say that was evil.

 

[Sarah G van G]

The English term evil tends to designate moral evil, that is, moral wickedness. Accordingly, Isaiah 45:7 would be stating that God is the cause of immoral actions performed by sinful human beings.

But the Hebrew term rac has a much broader usage. It can designate moral evil, misfortune (Prov. 13:17), or harm (Jer. 7:6). In Isaiah 45:7 the context suggests the meaning “misfortune, disaster.” The whole phrase reads “I bring prosperity [shalom] and create disaster (NIV).” The opposite of “evil” in this sense is peace, prosperity, personal safety.

The issue here is not moral integrity versus immoral behavior but well-being versus misfortune. The “evil/misfortune” here refers to the bitter Israelite experience of the exile, and the “peace” to their restoration through the work of Cyrus. The evil God created was the exile, the destruction of Jerusalem.

In Amos 3:6 the Lord announced Israel’s fall through a rhetorical question: “When disaster [rac] comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?” (NIV). The idea is that the collapse of Israel was not the result of the victory of the pagan gods over the God of Israel; the Lord Himself brought this disaster on His people. God is not the creator of moral evil.

This makes so much sense, thank you. I think I can explain that without getting into too many problems!

 

[d taylor]

From got questions. Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Sarah G van G]

From got questions. Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? | GotQuestions.org

Oh, I'd forgotten about GQ, it's always useful. I'll go read that, thanks!

 

[TheWhat?]

From a human standpoint many would view the acts of God as evil. Just take the Genesis 6 flood ask any nonbeliever and they will say that was evil.

I don't know. Many nonbelievers seem to be inclined to interpret natural disasters as calamitous but not evil, as do many believers. Evil involves unmentionables. It isn't a pleasant subject to talk about because to discuss it is to border on taking part in an evil conversation. It is not a subject to be taken lightly.

 

[d taylor]

I don't know. Many nonbelievers seem to be inclined to interpret natural disasters as calamitous but not evil, as do many believers. Evil involves unmentionables. It isn't a pleasant subject to talk about because to discuss it is to border on taking part in an evil conversation. It is not a subject to be taken lightly.

Well many non believers first do not believe in God.

But the ones (non believers) that do believe in a higher power and more than likely some type of universalism where everyone goes to paradise.

Like to use The Bible as a got you, to try and make believers look stupid, to say see you are worshiping for your God a monster.

 

[TheWhat?]

Well many non believers first do not believe in God.

But the ones (non believers) that do believe in a higher power and more than likely some type of universalism where everyone goes to paradise.

Like to use The Bible as a got you, to try and make believers look stupid, to say see you are worshiping for your God a monster.

Some people do interpret God to be responsible, and more so, the author of monstrous evils. If that's what anyone believes, well I can disagree and show it to be wrong, but I can't force them to change their mind.

The real tragedy, though, is that God is being made to look bad. Christ's name is tarnished in the process. His reputation is damaged, and the lost who would be called by a good God unto salvation are being turned away. Then it makes the rest of us christians look bad as well, but to say that to be a christian who does not believe similarly that God is the author of monstrous evils is to be a non-believer is completely wrong and potentially a lie.

 

[d taylor]

Some people do interpret God to be responsible, and more so, the author of monstrous evils. If that's what anyone believes, well I can disagree and show it to be wrong, but I can't force them to change their mind.

The real tragedy, though, is that God is being made to look bad. Christ's name is tarnished in the process. His reputation is damaged, and the lost who would be called by a good God unto salvation are being turned away. Then it makes the rest of us christians look bad as well, but to say that to be a christian who does not believe similarly that God is the author of monstrous evils is to be a non-believer is completely wrong and potentially a lie.

Not quite sure what you are saying here.

but to say that to be a christian who does not believe similarly that God is the author of monstrous evils is to be a non-believer is completely wrong and potentially a lie.

 

[TheWhat?]

Not quite sure what you are saying here.

but to say that to be a christian who does not believe similarly that God is the author of monstrous evils is to be a non-believer is completely wrong and potentially a lie.

Well, either you believe God is the author of monstrous evils, based on verses such as these or you do not. Some people do.

It doesn't seem like you do because you cited that source which contradicts the interpretation of Isa 45:7 which would support that interpretation. But, then, you seem to be going to bat for that team attempting to defend it against unbelievers who react against monstrous evils that some people, for whatever reason, want to believe God is the author of.

If you're on that side of the issue then you should know what I'm talking about. If you're genuinely confused, I'm not sure I have the explanation, maybe someone convinced you to go to bat for their team.

 

[d taylor]

Well, either you believe God is the author of monstrous evils, based on verses such as these or you do not. Some people do.

It doesn't seem like you do because you cited that source which contradicts the interpretation of Isa 45:7 which would support that interpretation. But, then, you seem to be going to bat for that team attempting to defend it against unbelievers who react against monstrous evils that some people, for whatever reason, want to believe God is the author of.

If you're on that side of the issue then you should know what I'm talking about. If you're genuinely confused, I'm not sure I have the explanation, maybe someone convinced you to go to bat for their team.

I my post i was never stating what i believe but giving an idea about how unbelievers may see this.