Isaiah 40:22 -- "Globe of the Earth"

[FEZZILLA]

And we can add history to the list of topics that you have no clue about.

Oh stop pretending to know it all. If you saw my library you'd crap your pants as most people do. I have a great deal of documents and scholarly written works from all areas of history. Everything I say about history is absolutely true. I'm also an Anglican and have more access to old English literature than those who live in your average Protestant box. I know a great deal about Bible history in Germany and England. French was the language of universities in the 16th century. It was only due to the effort of William Tyndale that English became a language of British academia, and, for that matter...the Anglican Church. Though the Latin still had strong influence in the Catholic church.

Latin was the language of scholars and universities in all of Europe, until far into the 18th century.

Latin was the language of the church. The universities spoke French in England.

And "Latin" alone does not indicate "Christian thought". Latin was, in the case you have missed it, the language of the main political body in the whole mediterranian world for centuries... a lot of it rather non-christian.

I'm talking about the era in which those maps were made and others like it. The 16th century was the era in which the English language would be recognized. But this was not an overnight transition. Latin would remain the language of the RCC up into the 19th century America. Back in the 16th century, Latin was the language of the church but was rivaled by English. Latin was not the language of universities. If you lived during the time William Tyndale or Myle Coverdale you spoke French in the Universities.

Our calenders, again if you have missed it, are pagan in origin. The origin of the current solar calendar was an egyptian model, introduced into the roman world by a very pagan C. Julius Caesar. The names and structures of the months are roman in origin... pagan Rome that is. The 7-day week does indeed come from middle-eastern origins... but you might have noticed that all of the germanic and anglo-saxon speaking world still uses the old germanic deities as the names of the days.

So instead of "our calenders" being influenced by the Bible, which used the Hebrew moon calender, it is rather the other way round: the Christian calender was heavily influenced by the pagan calender.

You're obviously here to brawl with Christians in your attempt to de-Christianize history. So maybe you'll listen to a top evolutionist on the subject who is not out for an agenda to de-Christianize all history.

 

[Strathos]

Run "atheist" through the anagram server.

A theist?

 

[AV1611VET]

A theist?

Yup.

Atheists are theists, according to anagram.

 

[Freodin]

Oh stop pretending to know it all. If you saw my library you'd crap your pants as most people do.
I have a great deal of documents and scholarly written works from all areas of history. Everything I say about history is absolutely true.

Oh, do you? Then it is surprising that you cannot get your dates and eras right, don't know how to read classic Greek and demonstrate a general inability to understand historical facts.

I'm also an Anglican and have more access to old English literature than those who live in your average Protestant box. I know a great deal about Bible history in Germany and England.

I have no way to see what you know... I can only go by what you demonstrate here. And that is a serious lack of understanding.

French was the language of universities in the 16th century.

With your massive library, I would say it should be no problem for you to present a source for that claim.

It was only due to the effort of William Tyndale that English became a language of British academia, and, for that matter...the Anglican Church. Though the Latin still had strong influence in the Catholic church.

And the academia and government. Most scholarly works were still written in Latin and English wasn't proscribed as the language for official documents until the early 18th century.

Latin was the language of the church. The universities spoke French in England.

Latin was the language not only of the church, but also of the academia all over Europe.
I haven't any knowledge about "universities speaking French in England" generally in the 16th century... scholars tended to use either the "Lingua Franca" of their era or their native tongue. But I am sure you will have a source for your claim. Right?

I'm talking about the era in which those maps were made and others like it. The 16th century was the era in which the English language would be recognized. But this was not an overnight transition. Latin would remain the language of the RCC up into the 19th century America. Back in the 16th century, Latin was the language of the church but was rivaled by English. Latin was not the language of universities. If you lived during the time William Tyndale or Myle Coverdale you spoke French in the Universities.

That must be the reason why so many English scholars of that time published their works in either Latin or English.

But if you are talking about the era in which those maps were made... and cite the 16th century when the English universities spoke French and English would be recognized... why to do present maps made in the 17th century with Latin text? Because it was the language of the Roman Catholic Church, which influenced these maps? Maps created in the Protestant Netherlands?

Sure.

You're obviously here to brawl with Christians in your attempt to de-Christianize history. So maybe you'll listen to a top evolutionist on the subject who is not out for an agenda to de-Christianize all history.

If you can provide me with the Biblical or Christian foundation for the names "March" (after the roman God Mars), "June" (after the Roman Goddess Juno), "Tuesday" (after the Germanic God Tiu), "Wednesday" (after the Germanic God Wodan), "Thursday" (afther the Germanic God Thor)... I will apologize and admit that I am trying to de-Christianize history.

The "invention" of the Greorian calender, as NdGT called it, was just an adaption of the existent Julian Calender... which continued to be used by non-catholic countries for centuries.
But even that wasn't based on "Christian thinking". It was based on secular observations.
I would say that it is rather an argument for my position - that the Church adapted the current secular knowledge of the respective times - if you want to claim that the "current / Gregorian" calender is based on "Christianity / Christian thinking / biblical thinking"... and it took Christianity more than 1500 years to figure it out.

And I would be really interested to see the Biblical / Christian justification for the Gregorian Calender... and why it still uses pagan terminology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You will find no basis in ancient Christianity or Judaism to support your view of "literal." We have 2000 years of priests that disagree with how modern atheists forcefully interpret the Bible. The atheist view is easy to destroy because its not based on true scholarship, but rather its based solely on hate and bigotry of Christianity and hate is blinding.

I really don't care how priests translate the Bible. They make terrible mistakes. To start off with they assume that their beliefs are true and that all others are false. This included the beliefs of other Christians. The hate appears to come from you here. I have not seen any hate from atheists, only corrections of errors. You meanwhile attack respected academics solely because the have a different viewpoint than you do. One does not have to believe the Bible to understand it. In fact belief gets in the way of true understanding, again and again and again.

 

[Strathos]

Yup.

Atheists are theists, according to anagram.

It could also be 'eat this'. They must be gourmets.

 

[FEZZILLA]

I should think that Latin would have been understood by the educated elite across medieval Europe and beyond... the people who would want those maps. I supposed you can thank the church for that.

It’s a huge stretch to say anything written in the bible about the Earth influenced the making of the maps technically.

Again, the language of the British Universities was French. Do some research on this and you'll find out that I'm right. The language of the church was Latin. There are maps done in French like the map below.

In French, Mappe Monde means map of the world...the world being defined as a globe.
In British English it was defined as world, being the planet we live on (i.e. a globe).

Collins Dictionary
English Translation of “monde” | Collins French-English Dictionary

Wiktionary
monde - Wiktionary

Now from an atheist website...Wikipedia
Monde - Wikipedia

Now see link below which is Wikipedia's reference to Monde
Globus cruciger - Wikipedia

Notice pictures on the side of globus cruciger (Latin for "cross-bearing orb")

The Latin Mundi.

† St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate:

Rev.13:8,

"et adorabunt eum omnes qui inhabitant terram quorum non sunt scripta nomina in libro vitae agni qui occisus est ab origine mundi"

Rev.17:8,

"bestiam quam vidisti fuit et non est et ascensura est de abysso et in interitum ibit et mirabuntur inhabitantes terram quorum non sunt scripta nomina in libro vitae a constitutione mundi videntes bestiam quia erat et non est"

Matt.4:8,

"iterum adsumit eum diabolus in montem excelsum valde et ostendit ei omnia regna mundi et gloriam eorum"

Latin Definition of Mundi
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...WMrPfBCiqaw002SvNYFPrtd801EqAgxZXuymq9Ooi_QxY

"sphaera noun: sphere, globe, ball, orbit, celestial globe

homines noun: men, people, mankind, humanity, folk

populus noun: people, poplar, crowd, multitude, public

planeta noun: the planet, planet

globus noun: group, globe, ball, sphere, troop

terra noun: earth, ground, country, territory, region"

So mundi can be applied to mean: sphaera, planeta, globus, terra -- along with the inhabitants of earth and their kingdoms.

The Greek word is G2889 κόσμος kósmos. In Luke 4:5 Luke used G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē, but in Matt.4:8 of the same account, G2889 κόσμος kósmos is used. Luke 4:5 is a very clear globe earth verse. I think Matt.4:8 is using kósmos in the same manner Luke used oikouménē. For the battle of souls was then and is now a global battle.

Revelation 13:8,

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (KJV).

Revelation 17:8,

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" (KJV).

Both verses use the Greek words G1093 γῆ gē and G2889 κόσμος kósmos.

Both verses here mention the earth and the foundation of the world. The earth is γῆ gē and the "of the world" in the KJV is κόσμος kósmos. Both verse contain "dwell on the earth." So these things you want to make a mental note of because they do matter and the do effect the meaning.

Textus Receptus:

Revalation 13:8,

"και προσκυνησουσιν αυτω παντες οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται τα ονοματα εν τη βιβλω της ζωης του αρνιου εσφαγμενου απο καταβολης κοσμου"

Revelation 17:8,

"θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντες το θηριον ο τι ην και ουκ εστιν καιπερ εστιν"

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G1093 γῆ gē,

"γῆ gē, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):—country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γῆς

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G2889 κόσμος kósmos

"κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/κόσμος

"Noun
κόσμος • (kósmos) m (plural κόσμοι)

1. (astronomy) Universe, cosmos
2. world; planet Earth"

κόσμος is also used to express οἰκουμένη as Luke 4:5 applied.

Compare:

Matt.4:8,

"Again, the devil takes him into a very high mount, and shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory" (G2889 κόσμος kósmos - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Luke 4:5,

"And the devil, bringing him into a high mountain, shewed him all the kingdoms of the habitable globe in an instant of time" (G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē - 1876 Julia Smith Bible). "

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

"οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world."

This word is married to the Greek word antipodes in Greek Philosophy. Matthew uses another word to express the same thing -- kósmos. From kósmos we get Mundi in Latin and Monde in French. The word kósmos is believed to have been coined by Pythagoras who would have not used it to describe a flat earth.
Cosmos - Wikipedia

Though in the Latin Vulgate the three verses mention here translated to Mundi.

Now there is more history behind the word mundi. There is Salvator Mundi which is when Jesus holds the Globus cruciger which is Latin for "Saviour of the World"
Again from an atheist website
Salvator Mundi - Wikipedia

Salvator Mundi is represented as a central motif in artworks since the 15th century such as:

Carlo Crivelli, Cristo benedicente (c. 1472)

Also notice this portrait was drawn before 1492!

Leonardo da Vinci, Salvator Mundi (c. 1500)

Andrea Previtali, Salvator Mundi (1519), National Gallery

Titian, Salvator Mundi (1570), Hermitage Museum

The globus cruciger goes all the back to the 5th century.
The picture below is from an icon made circa 8th century of the Archangel Mikhail.

But the Salvator Mundi is called so only when Jesus is holding the Globus cruciger. The Savior of the world is represented by Jesus holding a globe. Another portrait before 1492!

Here is former President Obama mocking Christians, accusing the church of believing flat earth before Columbus:

“Let me tell you something. If some of these folks were around when Columbus set sail–[laughter]–they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society [laughter]. They would not have believed that the world was round [applause]. We’ve heard these folks in the past” (Obama, B.H., Speech on energy at Prince George’s County Community College, Largo, MD, 15 March 2012).

Obama's words excited the liberal base and thus the flat earth movement on social media began.

 

[Freodin]

Again, the language of the British Universities was French. Do some research on this and you'll find out that I'm right. The language of the church was Latin. There are maps done in French like the map below.
View attachment 255541

In French, Mappe Monde means map of the world...the world being defined as a globe.
In British English it was defined as world, being the planet we live on (i.e. a globe).

So, you cannot provide a source for your claims, nor are you even able to specify your claim.
Instead you post a new map in french... from 1755. Not from any English university, but the French Academy of the Sciences.

How this is going to show you claim that maps are influenced by the Bible... I have no idea.

And instead of responding to my points regarding your other claims... that our calender is influenced by "Christian thought"... you go off into another copypasta orgy about words... and again demonstrate that you are also incapable of reading a dictionary.

It's amazing. Astounding. Inconceivable! But at least you have a library that makes people crap their pants.

You are the absolute master of non-sequiturs!

 

[FEZZILLA]

Oh, do you? Then it is surprising that you cannot get your dates and eras right, don't know how to read classic Greek and demonstrate a general inability to understand historical facts.


I have no way to see what you know... I can only go by what you demonstrate here. And that is a serious lack of understanding.


With your massive library, I would say it should be no problem for you to present a source for that claim.


And the academia and government. Most scholarly works were still written in Latin and English wasn't proscribed as the language for official documents until the early 18th century.


Latin was the language not only of the church, but also of the academia all over Europe.
I haven't any knowledge about "universities speaking French in England" generally in the 16th century... scholars tended to use either the "Lingua Franca" of their era or their native tongue. But I am sure you will have a source for your claim. Right?


That must be the reason why so many English scholars of that time published their works in either Latin or English.

But if you are talking about the era in which those maps were made... and cite the 16th century when the English universities spoke French and English would be recognized... why to do present maps made in the 17th century with Latin text? Because it was the language of the Roman Catholic Church, which influenced these maps? Maps created in the Protestant Netherlands?

Sure.

If you can provide me with the Biblical or Christian foundation for the names "March" (after the roman God Mars), "June" (after the Roman Goddess Juno), "Tuesday" (after the Germanic God Tiu), "Wednesday" (after the Germanic God Wodan), "Thursday" (afther the Germanic God Thor)... I will apologize and admit that I am trying to de-Christianize history.

The "invention" of the Greorian calender, as NdGT called it, was just an adaption of the existent Julian Calender... which continued to be used by non-catholic countries for centuries.
But even that wasn't based on "Christian thinking". It was based on secular observations.
I would say that it is rather an argument for my position - that the Church adapted the current secular knowledge of the respective times - if you want to claim that the "current / Gregorian" calender is based on "Christianity / Christian thinking / biblical thinking"... and it took Christianity more than 1500 years to figure it out.

And I would be really interested to see the Biblical / Christian justification for the Gregorian Calender... and why it still uses pagan terminology.

Another denationalist trying to de-Christianize history.

"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
~ Philippians 4:8

There is no denationalism in Christianity like there is in atheism!

 

[FEZZILLA]

So, you cannot provide a source for your claims, nor are you even able to specify your claim.
Instead you post a new map in french... from 1755. Not from any English university, but the French Academy of the Sciences.

How this is going to show you claim that maps are influenced by the Bible... I have no idea.

And instead of responding to my points regarding your other claims... that our calender is influenced by "Christian thought"... you go off into another copypasta orgy about words... and again demonstrate that you are also incapable of reading a dictionary.

It's amazing. Astounding. Inconceivable! But at least you have a library that makes people crap their pants.

You are the absolute master of non-sequiturs!

You didn't even read the link! Total troll! You posted 1-minute after I did. This is considering the time it takes to read the post and the time it takes to write your reply. You saw a French map and didn't bother reading a single word I said. You are trolling and brawling!

 

[Freodin]

Another denationalist trying to de-Christianize history.

"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
~ Philippians 4:8

There is no denationalism in Christianity like there is in atheism!

No response to my points, an attempted derision... I think so, because I couldn't find the term "denationalist" on google, and I don't think you mean "removing from the ownership of the state" or "remove nationality". It seems now you have arrived at inventing words. Great job!

I find it extremely amusing that you continue to rant against the "fraudulent" behaviour of atheists.

 

[Freodin]

You didn't even read the link! Total troll! You posted 1-minute after I did. This is considering the time it takes to read the post and the time it takes to write your reply. You saw a French map and didn't bother reading a single word I said. You are trolling and brawling!

And now you demonstrate your inability to read a clock... or you have stooped down to lying.

Have you ever heard of the first rule of holes?

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed for staff review.

Edit: The thread is staying closed. There is too much flaming, too many off topic posts, and other violations. ​